starting to get a bit paranoid

[ShanahanMan 473]

Agreed.

So there's at least two of us.

thank goodness.

[b.shanafan14 733]

You know what most bulls*** penalties consist of? Hooks. You know how many hooks were called in this game? One. I hate to disagree with what seems like the majority of the board here but this game was called pretty legit to me. Sure there were missed calls here and there but what game doesn't? As someone else put it, the Wings defeated the Wings.

I don't doubt the presence of Wings penalties, I find it funny how some penalties aren't seen these days, all around the league, not just this game, when they are committed by the trailing team. And that the severity once needed to put a team on a lengthy two-man advantage as slipped to nothing. And if its intentional, which I don't doubt in the least that it is because its happened plenty before, I hate it. To me, 5 on 5 hockey is the entertaining stuff, PP not bad, but 5 on 3 are boring as sin. Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass...... pass, shot, no one moving, rinse, repeat. Lucky us we have a tie game. I think if Bettman had his way, every game would go to a shootout tied 6-6 and it would take 5 shooters and the home team would win every time.

[pjgj13 30]

I understand about "not calling everything", but when there were 19 penalties called seems like they were calling almost everything. It looked like interference in the corner that led directly to the go ahead goal (Sucks, yes Sucks 4th). The elbow on Dats by the biggest POS in history would have given the Wings a 5 - 3 for 2 minutes.

I bet Bettman was in the "war room" and said to not wave it off.

Ozzie played a great game and had no chance on 4 of the goals.

[ShanahanMan 473]

I don't doubt the presence of Wings penalties, I find it funny how some penalties aren't seen these days, all around the league, not just this game, when they are committed by the trailing team. And that the severity once needed to put a team on a lengthy two-man advantage as slipped to nothing. And if its intentional, which I don't doubt in the least that it is because its happened plenty before, I hate it. To me, 5 on 5 hockey is the entertaining stuff, PP not bad, but 5 on 3 are boring as sin. Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass...... pass, shot, no one moving, rinse, repeat. Lucky us we have a tie game. I think if Bettman had his way, every game would go to a shootout tied 6-6 and it would take 5 shooters and the home team would win every time.

I know the refs tend to suck around the league, and I know these 5 on 3's are excruciating....but once again, you can't blame them for the calls against us this game.....no matter how frustrating it is and how it seems like "they're all out to get us!" The first 5-3 resulted from Lilja elbowing (called a rough but legit) and Hank throwing the puck over the glass. How can you argue with these calls? If the situation was reversed, I can almost guarantee you wouldn't be as mad. The second 5 on 3 resulted from the ONE hook in the game by Datsyuk......but it was a legit hook that resulted from one of the COUNTLESS defensive breakdowns the Wings had tonight.....and the obvious high stick by Kronwall.

I agree, the refs around the league need to go back to school or tape their eye lids open or something..........but this game does not stand out in particular as anything that was called one way or unfair.

Edited October 30, 2008 by ShanahanMan

[ben_usmc 253]

I know the refs tend to suck around the league, and I know these 5 on 3's are excruciating....but once again, you can't blame them for the calls against us this game.....no matter how frustrating it is and how it seems like "they're all out to get us!" The first 5-3 resulted from Lilja elbowing (called a rough but legit) and Hank throwing the puck over the glass. How can you argue with these calls? If the situation was reversed, I can almost guarantee you wouldn't be as mad. The second 5 on 3 resulted from the ONE hook in the game by Datsyuk......but it was a legit hook that resulted from one of the COUNTLESS defensive breakdowns the Wings had tonight.....and the obvious high stick by Kronwall.

I agree, the refs around the league need to go back to school or tape their eye lids open or something..........but this game does not stand out in particular as anything that was called one way or unfair.

I think every call against the Wings were legit, but the started calling less and less on the Ducks. I'm not really that upset just for the simple fact that we caused the 5 on 3's which really is what won them the game. The only penalty that pissed me off was Prongers that was missed, I really was waiting for Dats to do something sneaking.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

thank goodness.

Make that three. I didn't have a problem with any of the calls against. I do question the OT goal, but the Wings wouldn't have been there if they hadn't taken at least 5 or 6 stupid, ill-timed, or black and white penalties.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I think a lot of the perspective on the refs actually is weighed heavily by who you're watching the game with. We root for the Wings, and if there's something we don't like (ie penalty), we instinctively look for the route that will take the blame of our team. Its just how it works. I notice when I watch games by myself and I'm not in GDTs, I find all the refs calls totally fine, with maybe a marginal call here or there (but at the very least I can see how that particular call was made). However, if I'm watching and I'm also reading/participating in GDT's, I'm always totally disgusted in how the refs influence the game. With GDT's, instead of having just one pair of eyes looking for that scapegoat to take the blame off your team, you have 20. Someone somewhere will be able to nitpick a call, and everyone around will naturally tend to agree, because once again in keeps the team were rooting for from being the bad guy. Now I'm not saying this is the case with everyone- but I watched the game by myself, and for the most part I thought the calls were legit. I'm sure my perspective would've been different had I watched it with everyone here.

What it all comes down to for me at least is bias; except when you watch with other folks, you tend to pick up a little of their bias as well, whether intentionally or not.

[PuckFace 1]

I don't really think the calls were that bad, yea a lot came our way but i do believe we got away w/ a lot of stuff ourselves. Like how about Drapper holding the stick, you know the one where he had his arms and leg wrapped around it As far as the Selanne interference call I thought that was a little much. Taking the goal back was a good call but come on we all know Shammy dove. Speaking of Shammy, he got away w/ a lot as well. All and all, niether team played up to par w/ what they are able to. The OT goal is questionable though. We just have to take these things one game at a time.

Im not trying to point fingers just giving examples. We blew it over all just plain and simple.

Edited October 30, 2008 by PuckFace

[Uncle Danny 155]

The Wings took stupid penalties. The Wings lost. End of story.

Prologue: They can't win every single game, and quite often the refs will be blowing their whistles during those games that the Wings lose. It happens, and quite often it should happen.

I'm as upset about the loss to those Anaheim freaks as anyone here, but pointing fingers like this is ... less than becoming. The Wings lost. The Wings face the Sharks tomorrow. Let's hope the Wings don't repeat the silly mistakes they made tonight and move on.

[Guest Shoreline]

The refs blew the call at the end, and the goal reviewers were even less of help in getting it right.

That being said, it wouldn't have needed to come down to this had the Wings not been stupid and got themselves into major penalty trouble, giving up several 5-on-3's, two of them being in the back of their net, and another on the single man advantage. The Wings special teams was fairly mediocre, and Osgood was mostly decent in this game, so it's not his fault. Again, this was the Wings lack of discipline problems and this has happened from the get-go thusfar in the season.

They had the game, and let it slip away, barely even scraping a point out of it. If the team is to go anywhere in the playoffs this is something that can't be as prominent as early on this season.

[Firehawk 305]

Has anyone else noticed that as soon as the wings get a lead, the other team immediatly gets a marginal call in their favor? I know they're was always make up calls, but this seaason i am seeing more and more calls that seem like the refs are trying to keep it close. It's noticable on the scorebored too, as we've only beat the 2 goal diffirene twice, both being empty netter game.

Anyone else notice this? I for one am convinced that bettman has told the refs to create some "parity" in the leauge, in terms of refs being made to call a game to make it close

I brought this up in the last game day thread and most people ignored me, and the few that responded thought I was nuts. I'm telling you, this is going on. I don't know if it's happening in other games because I haven't watched other hockey yet this year, but it's obvious to me that the league told the refs to keep the games as close as possible. I like how the red wing opponents get a 5 on 3 every game. That can be interepreted in a few different ways: 1. the league thinks that highly of the red wings and feel the other team needs to have that kind of advantage to have a chance to win, 2. the league is tired of seeing Detroit at the top every year.

It seems every game the wings get a lead and then get called on chincy penalties. Why are they calling chincey crap with less than 5 minutes to go in the game anyways? they did that in the SCF last year on us too and could have easily cost us the cup.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The Wings took stupid penalties. The Wings lost. End of story.

Prologue: They can't win every single game, and quite often the refs will be blowing their whistles during those games that the Wings lose. It happens, and quite often it should happen.

I'm as upset about the loss to those Anaheim freaks as anyone here, but pointing fingers like this is ... less than becoming. The Wings lost. The Wings face the Sharks tomorrow. Let's hope the Wings don't repeat the silly mistakes they made tonight and move on.

Yep.

Do referees play a hand in determining an outcome of a game? Without question. We've seen instances of this in recent playoffs with phantom interference calls on Holmstrom, heck we saw one this past game disallowing a Ducks goal.

Are they to blame or the ultimate major factor when your team loses? Very rarely and blaming the referees for losing a game is a cop-out excuse to me.

Referees are going to make some calls that are questionable at times, they are going to miss some obvious penalties. It's part of hockey for better or worse.

Sometimes your star players aren't going to score every time or miss the net. Sometimes your defensmen will make a turnover which leads to a goal. Sometimes your goaltender isn't going to stop enough pucks. A myriad of things contribute to a win or a loss so I rarely go the scapegoat route or the blame game, whether it is the refs or one/two players that might have braincramped.

Edited October 30, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I think a lot of the perspective on the refs actually is weighed heavily by who you're watching the game with. We root for the Wings, and if there's something we don't like (ie penalty), we instinctively look for the route that will take the blame of our team. Its just how it works. I notice when I watch games by myself and I'm not in GDTs, I find all the refs calls totally fine, with maybe a marginal call here or there (but at the very least I can see how that particular call was made). However, if I'm watching and I'm also reading/participating in GDT's, I'm always totally disgusted in how the refs influence the game. With GDT's, instead of having just one pair of eyes looking for that scapegoat to take the blame off your team, you have 20. Someone somewhere will be able to nitpick a call, and everyone around will naturally tend to agree, because once again in keeps the team were rooting for from being the bad guy. Now I'm not saying this is the case with everyone- but I watched the game by myself, and for the most part I thought the calls were legit. I'm sure my perspective would've been different had I watched it with everyone here.

What it all comes down to for me at least is bias; except when you watch with other folks, you tend to pick up a little of their bias as well, whether intentionally or not.

This is why I don't go into GDT's.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

It's evident that the League wants a new face for NHL Superiorirty, not the Wings Euro style NHL Cups. It doesn't sell tickets or get viewers... they're trying to make the Wings change their game. Babcock alluded to this last night.

[VM1138 1,921]

I hate to ***** and scream bias, but last night was terrible. The refs were asleep at the wheel whenever it came to punishing a Duck. Not saying the WIngs didn't deserve their penalties, but the Ducks should have had at least 8 additional ones.

This always seems to happen when we play the Ducks. Not so much any other team, just these goons.

[pjgj13 30]

I hate to ***** and scream bias, but last night was terrible. The refs were asleep at the wheel whenever it came to punishing a Duck. Not saying the WIngs didn't deserve their penalties, but the Ducks should have had at least 8 additional ones.

This always seems to happen when we play the Ducks. Not so much any other team, just these goons.

I agree 110% with what you said. Yeah, the Wings deserved the penalties, but the Sucks deserved AT LEAST 8 more penalties. With our PP at 32% or so, we COULD have scored another 2 or 3 goals and would have never went to OT.

I am surprised not many people are complaining about the winner. Total Horses***!!

[jason_0931 0]

The question ins't the calls the refs make as much as I am concerned the team is not playing well defensively. Obviously they have the offensive talent to stay with the teams in the NHL, but the past couple of years how many times have you seen this team with some many games were they win or lose when they score more than 3 goals. I mean the other team is putting the puck in the net way to often for me.

I am not saying it is Ozzy or Conklins fault. On the contrary I think they have both played really well so far, with maybe a few lapses in judgement. However, the team giving up the chances they are and the odd man rushes and the give aways in their own zone, just seems unlike the wings the past few years. I remember hearing Scotty Bowman on the radio indicate that you can start to judge your team after the first 10 games or so and know where you are at. We are 10 games in and our record is good, but the scores are not. I would say we are on the brink of a major loosing streak that could last a long time. The question will be based on the wings first 10 games do they look like they can climb out of it quickly?

I would say I have faith in Babcock and the coaching staff, but I would say this loosing streak could be a long one!

Go wings!!!!!

[Slave 31]

i have to agree with the ot goal, from the first angle it looked like it was hit about 8 inches over the crossbar, the 2nd angle i saw did nothing and the thrid it looked over as well, but...i am not a ref. Couple missed calls on the ducks might have changed the game but i think all the wings penalties were legit.

Just want to add

I HATE COREY PERRY. Sammy should have 2 handed him across the face instead of just punching him, GOD I DO NOT EVEN HATE TOOTOO AS MUCH AS PERRY

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

I brought this up in the last game day thread and most people ignored me, and the few that responded thought I was nuts. I'm telling you, this is going on. I don't know if it's happening in other games because I haven't watched other hockey yet this year, but it's obvious to me that the league told the refs to keep the games as close as possible. I like how the red wing opponents get a 5 on 3 every game. That can be interepreted in a few different ways: 1. the league thinks that highly of the red wings and feel the other team needs to have that kind of advantage to have a chance to win, 2. the league is tired of seeing Detroit at the top every year.

It seems every game the wings get a lead and then get called on chincy penalties. Why are they calling chincey crap with less than 5 minutes to go in the game anyways? they did that in the SCF last year on us too and could have easily cost us the cup.

I wouldnt go that far. Ive noticed when the Rw's are arhead they get some marignal calls too.

[wingfan13 44]

Do you guys think the Datsyuk hook was legit ?

[b.shanafan14 733]

Its not a purely anti-Wings thing thats going on. We have been penalized an absurd amount this season right? The days of counting a teams 5 on 3 situations on two-hands is out in the first month of the season. As bad as the Wings have had it, they are still (at least going into last nights game) the LEAST penalized team in the league. Take the time to watch NHL games in which the Wings aren't playing, and count the penalties and 5 on 3s, its ridiculous. The problem with last night in particular isn't that the Wings were getting called for phantom penalties, its this:

- The refs seem to lock eyes on the team that's leading and ignore the trailing team.

- The severity of the offense to go to a 5 on 3 has dropped considerably.

- The game was decided on a high-stick that was reviewed shortly and awarded to the home team.

All these are trends throughout the NHL this season and reared their ugly heads prominently last night. The Wings deserved 90% of the penalties they got last night, but Anaheim deserved at least 5 more than they got. Compare the chinsy hook Pavel got, to the Interference/Elbow/Blow to the head Pronger preformed on Datsyuk wasn't called, or the boarding calls let go when preformed by the Ducks, but awarded when preformed by the Wings once.

The refs have also awarded at least one 5 on 3 in every game I've watched in the last week (Wings or non-Wings). And for the most part they are penalties that are weak by 5 on 5 standards, especially when you look at some penalties that are "missed" by the trailing team.

And the high-stick goal last night was just icing on cake.

[Johnny Law 15]

Its not a purely anti-Wings thing thats going on. We have been penalized an absurd amount this season right? The days of counting a teams 5 on 3 situations on two-hands is out in the first month of the season. As bad as the Wings have had it, they are still (at least going into last nights game) the LEAST penalized team in the league. Take the time to watch NHL games in which the Wings aren't playing, and count the penalties and 5 on 3s, its ridiculous. The problem with last night in particular isn't that the Wings were getting called for phantom penalties, its this:

- The refs seem to lock eyes on the team that's leading and ignore the trailing team.

- The severity of the offense to go to a 5 on 3 has dropped considerably.

- The game was decided on a high-stick that was reviewed shortly and awarded to the home team.

All these are trends throughout the NHL this season and reared their ugly heads prominently last night. The Wings deserved 90% of the penalties they got last night, but Anaheim deserved at least 5 more than they got. Compare the chinsy hook Pavel got, to the Interference/Elbow/Blow to the head Pronger preformed on Datsyuk wasn't called, or the boarding calls let go when preformed by the Ducks, but awarded when preformed by the Wings once.

The refs have also awarded at least one 5 on 3 in every game I've watched in the last week (Wings or non-Wings). And for the most part they are penalties that are weak by 5 on 5 standards, especially when you look at some penalties that are "missed" by the trailing team.

And the high-stick goal last night was just icing on cake.

Totally agree, I watch a butt ton of games on Center Ice and the 5 on 3 thing is league wide. I'm not a tinfoil hat guy and the Wings earned those penalties last night but it does seem like something was said to the refs. Penalties in hockey are like holding in football...it happens every play.

[redwings4life 3]

Most of the calls on the Wings were the right ones. However when we had a chance for a 5 on 3 when Datsyuk got elbowed to the head there was no call. I don't care if the refs are going to call everything or nothing, but all I ask is that they make it consistant for both teams and I didn't see that last night.

Edited October 30, 2008 by redwings4life

[Slave 31]

aye, 3 seasons ago a team could get a penalty for anything but to go down 5-3 they would have to pretty much decapitate someone

[SuperNovaXll 124]

I think he means the call preceding the ones that put us 5 on 3. Its not so much, IMO, that the calls are getting made against us - they are fairly legit calls - its just that their timing is impeccable. For example, the call on Datsyuk is a type of play that happens several times a game and is let go on both sides, yet they always seem to make an effort to make a call right after we score.

But in my mind, it all has to do with how we slack off after we score a goal. If you're running around in your own zone, the refs are gonna be more inclined to make the call. That plays into things a lot..

Geez, hit the nail on that head with that one. Thats pretty much EXACTLY what I was going to say