downey

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Yes let us recall a guy who is pointless with a -1 +/- in the AHL, that will sure turn the team around...

They definitely would be better then 8-2-2 with Downey playing 4 minutes a game...

The only 3 players on Grand Rapids that merit NHL duty at this point in time are Helm, Ericsson and Leino, and there isn't room for them, why would there be room for Downey...

Plus Mac is only playing every night because Franzen is out...if Franzen were healthy Mac wouldn't play..so the difference between Aaron Downey eating Nachos in the Press Box or McCarty eating popcorn when the team is healthy is not a concern to me.

Nobody is saying Downey would turn the team around and you know it. The reason people want him in the lineup is because he's a better fighter than McCarty at this point. He's also a better fighter than any of those guys in GR who you mentioned.

But then again, you might be one of those posters who doesn't think that part of the game is important, which is why you made that ridiculous post in the first place.

[russianswede919293 95]

Nobody is saying Downey would turn the team around and you know it. The reason people want him in the lineup is because he's a better fighter than McCarty at this point. He's also a better fighter than any of those guys in GR who you mentioned.

But then again, you might be one of those posters who doesn't think that part of the game is important, which is why you made that ridiculous post in the first place.

I don't think fighting is unimportant, I think that having somebody that only fights and cannot play hockey is worthless. Everyone was so upset when Brad Norton was sent down 2 years ago...He is currently unemployed...My point is that the enforcers that can play hockey stay in the NHL, the ones that cannot (Downey) do not...I would love an enforcer that skated well and played smart defense, those are hard to come by...

And I believe I concluded my point stating that whats the difference between Downey or McCarty in the press box when the team is healthy...because when the team is healthy that is where the one that is up will be.

Those guys in GR I mentioned were not for fighting. I was saying I'd rather bring up their talent then Downey's slightly above average fists...

EDIT: I love fighting BTW, I just don't want to sacrifice talent for somebody who can barely skate, but has above average, but not top par fighting ability.

Edited November 5, 2008 by russianswede919293

[russianswede919293 95]

100% Correct. Research Dennis Bonvie.

Do you really have that little knowledge of the game of hockey? It has nothing to do with Downey playing 4 minutes, or 20 for that matter. It completely has to do with the fact that our stars feel more able to play THEIR game without ducking every two seconds. It's simple - a tough guy keeps the flies off the players that are there to produce. You think George Laraque or now Eric Godard's job is to be goal scorer's on the penguins? Hell no, it's to protect Crosby and Malkin and let them confidently play their game without worrying who's going to crush them into the boards without retribution.

Think about it... Do you feel safer walking the streets at night where the police are patrolling or not? Downey is the players police if an anology helps you understand.

Laraque has been on 4 different teams in 4 years since the lockout...

Godard has been on 3 teams in 4 years since the lockout...

Downey has been on 3 teams since the lockout as well...

Apparently I'm not the only person that thinks these players are replacable roster spots....7 NHL GMs agree with me....

[skacore 2]

Laraque has been on 4 different teams in 4 years since the lockout...

Godard has been on 3 teams in 4 years since the lockout...

Downey has been on 3 teams since the lockout as well...

Apparently I'm not the only person that thinks these players are replacable roster spots....7 NHL GMs agree with me....

Marian Hossa has been on 3 teams in what, a calender year?

So much for that argument

[russianswede919293 95]

Marian Hossa has been on 3 teams in what, a calender year?

So much for that argument

Yeah for signability issues. A guy that makes 500k is not leaving because of issues with re-signing him...Good try though.

My point was this, that in the new NHL, the only tough guys that stick are the ones that are good overall players as well.

[Guest micah]

Yeah you are probably right, it had nothing to do with the 3 free agents Holland signed and the cap space, it was that Georges didn't want to play for Detroit. You bring up a great point!

/sarcasm!

I'm sorry that you felt your argument was so weak that you had to resort to sarcasm.

Laraque had said over and over that he wanted to go to Montreal. Montreal was expressing interest in him. It had to look like a done-deal to a guy like Holland. I have no doubt that Holland would have given Laraque a serious look if the above weren't so. Why wouldn't he have? Cap space can be freed up, and there is no limit to the ammount of free agents one can sign. Laraque and Holland are both masters of their craft. It stand to reason that if Laraque wree available, Holland would have done diligence and given him a look. That doesn't mean I'm certain we would have gotten him, I'm sure other teams would have been interested too.

I do not believe that Laraque's not being signed by Detroit had anything to do with Holland being "too busy" signing others as you stated. If Laraque wanted to be here and Holland wanted him here, he would be here.

See how easy that was? No sarcasm, no caps.

[Opie 308]

After siging Hossa and Stuart, Holland had no space left.

If you think Holland was debating George and one of these two I think you are severely mistaken. Cap space can be cleared huh, the Wings are still in cap trouble once everyone is healthy again.

I am not saying George didn't want to come to Detroit, I never argued that, what I was saying is that I don't believe Detroit was even an option. Did you ever hear Holland make a mention of his name? Did the Wings even offer him a contract?

Holland and the Wings Modus Operandi for the recent past has been to not sign big name(or whatever term you want) enforcers, not my theory, not my guess, just what has happened in the past 5-6 years.

With Hossa, Stuart, Sundin, Selanne (potentially), Campbell and others on the free agent market you want me to believe that the only reason Laraque is not on the Wings is because he didn't want to be is a little bit of a stretch in my mind.

It stands to reason that if an enforcer is available that Holland will look right past him (ask GMR and the other "pro-enforcer" crowd what they think Holland's stance on enforcers is), especially when he had already stated that D-mac and Downey would be the enforcers he focused on.

Edit: Plus do you think Holland is paying an enforcer 3years at 1.5 mil you again are mistaken, part of the problem with signing Hossa was the amount of money he wanted, and the fact that it had to be either 1 year or multiple years on the cheap because Z, Mule and others needed to be taken into consideration.

Sorry you are so sensitive to sarcasm, I tried not to use any in this post.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Opie

[Guest micah]

Oh, I'm not sensitive to sarcasm at all. It was mostly pity that I felt for you when I saw you resort to it.

With Hossa, Stuart, Sundin, Selanne (potentially), Campbell and others on the free agent market you want me to believe that the only reason Laraque is not on the Wings is because he didn't want to be is a little bit of a stretch in my mind.

Please read the words I type and base any discussion we have on those, rather than words you immagine. At no time did I state that "the only reason Laraque is not on the Wings is because he didn't want to be". I believe that that was the reason he was not apparently seriously considered. Him going to Montreal was a forgone conclusion. Had it not been so, I'm certain that Holland would have looked at him.

Edited November 5, 2008 by micah

[Opie 308]

Oh, I'm not sensitive to sarcasm at all. It was mostly pity that I felt for you when I saw you resort to it.

Well for future reference I don't need your pity, and sarcasm is a tool used in daily life, for humor and/or emphasis. You must feel pity for a lot of people. I am really glad that I got to converse with such a humanitarian that you feel for so many people. My life seems fuller for having met some one of you high character and moral fiber.

What this has to do with Holland signing or not signing Larague is beyond me but, a lot of conversations that happen here are beyond me.

But please do tell me how Holland was going to fit a 1.5m 3 year contract under the cap with what he has. He most certainly would have had to give up on A) Hossa B) Stuart or trade Sammy and Lilja. But wait Holland signed both of those guys and when everyone is healthy again is still going to need to trade some one, Quincey did not free up the necessary space.

Explain to me, in ways other than trying feeble attacks at my posts, how Laraque fits into the Wings as of the end of last post season. How does he handle signing Laraque and then what does he do with Lilja, Stuart, Flip, Hossa, Conklin, D-mac, Downey. I would be very interested in this theory.

[Opie 308]

I don't doubt that Holland would have shown some interest in Laraque, he is an interesting player, far more complete than most who do his job. I suspect that the real reason he wasn't seriously courted was that he was wanting to live in and play for Montreal, not Detroit.

This sentence is what I replied to, you stated that you suspect the real reason he wasn't courted, which to me implies you believe the reason he is not a wing is because he didn't want to be. I simply, sarcastically, pointed out that there were far more serious mitigating factors than just Laraque's desire to play in Montreal.

Again, an enforcer who wants or commands 3 years at 1.5 million is all Holland had to hear to know that he was not interested in him. Then on top of that you add the contracts he has to plan for next season and the work he put into Hossa and Stuart's deals leaves him very little time to even think about a contract for a type of player that he very rarely courts or looks into.

I don't doubt that the deal to Montreal was forgone conclusion, what you are assuming is a forgone conclusion is that Holland would all of the sudden change the way he operates and look at an enforcer who makes more money than some one in his top 6 forward spot.

[redwingfan19 293]

no way the wings were ever considering signing laraque, he is way too tough for this team

[The Secret 304]

Yeah for signability issues. A guy that makes 500k is not leaving because of issues with re-signing him...Good try though.

My point was this, that in the new NHL, the only tough guys that stick are the ones that are good overall players as well.

I agree with this point.....Lucic comes to mind again!

Downey may be a good character in the dressing room, the guys might love him for his enthusiasm. But he is a crappy hockey player and a mediocre enforcer at best. Having him on the bench will not deter anyone from taking cheap shots. In order for Downey to "keep the flies" off our star players he would have to be on the ice with them! Downey will not play on anything but the bench and 4th line. He will not be able to stop anyone roughing up our player from either the bench or 4th line AND if he is being ordered to give paybacks then someone has already taken their cheapshot on our player. Having Downey in the line up will do absolutely nothing to improve our hockey team. Our main problem is defense right now, Downey can't change that! He is in GR where he belongs!

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Yeah for signability issues. A guy that makes 500k is not leaving because of issues with re-signing him...Good try though.

My point was this, that in the new NHL, the only tough guys that stick are the ones that are good overall players as well.

With all do respect, your screen name/ avatar is enough to prove to me you're anti-fighting.

You won't get anyone's argument. There aren't many goal scorers that can fight, the ones that are like Iginla/ Shanahan are top 2 line players. We don't need that, we have scorers up the wazoo; we need an enforcer, PERIOD.

[ben_usmc 253]

This sentence is what I replied to, you stated that you suspect the real reason he wasn't courted, which to me implies you believe the reason he is not a wing is because he didn't want to be. I simply, sarcastically, pointed out that there were far more serious mitigating factors than just Laraque's desire to play in Montreal.

Again, an enforcer who wants or commands 3 years at 1.5 million is all Holland had to hear to know that he was not interested in him. Then on top of that you add the contracts he has to plan for next season and the work he put into Hossa and Stuart's deals leaves him very little time to even think about a contract for a type of player that he very rarely courts or looks into.

I don't doubt that the deal to Montreal was forgone conclusion, what you are assuming is a forgone conclusion is that Holland would all of the sudden change the way he operates and look at an enforcer who makes more money than some one in his top 6 forward spot.

Are you saying thats a bad thing or a good thing? Personally I think that is the smart thing. Obviously he would go for a fighter at 1.5 if it was a Lucic or someone who can contribute. But I want Holland focusing on his important pieces and working his way out.

[Opie 308]

Are you saying thats a bad thing or a good thing? Personally I think that is the smart thing. Obviously he would go for a fighter at 1.5 if it was a Lucic or someone who can contribute. But I want Holland focusing on his important pieces and working his way out.

If it were Lucic is way different than it being Laraque, Lucic is a power forward who can fight, Laraque is an enforcer.

I agree with you, I would straight up trade Mule and any prospect (yes even Ericsson) to Boston for Lucic.

Lucic can't drink legally in this country and is a stud already. He may not be top 10 in the league, but he can score, defend, gets in high traffic areas, and can kTFO some one.

I think it is the right decision, 1.5 for Laraque, to me, is an overpayment.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Opie

[The Secret 304]

If it were Lucic is way different than it being Laraque, Lucic is a power forward who can fight, Laraque is an enforcer.

I agree with you, I would straight up trade Mule and any prospect (yes even Ericsson) to Boston for Lucic.

Lucic can't drink legally in this country and is a stud already. He may not be top 10 in the league, but he can score, defend, gets in high traffic areas, and can kTFO some one.

I think it is the right decision, 1.5 for Laraque, to me, is an overpayment.

I would trade Franzen for Lucic as I think it would benefit both sides but maybe not Lucic for Franzen and Ericsson because I think we will need what Ericsson offers on the blue line in the future. He will bring the physicality we need when he gets brought into the line up. Maybe Franzen and Helm?! Maybe! But I think Franzen for Lucic is plenty. I'm not sure that Lucic will be able to produce as much offensively as Franzen... but I could be wrong. I just really like that Lucic kids as it sounds most people do! He is fun to watch!

[Dominator2005 558]

I'm sorry that you felt your argument was so weak that you had to resort to sarcasm.

Laraque had said over and over that he wanted to go to Montreal. Montreal was expressing interest in him. It had to look like a done-deal to a guy like Holland. I have no doubt that Holland would have given Laraque a serious look if the above weren't so. Why wouldn't he have? Cap space can be freed up, and there is no limit to the ammount of free agents one can sign. Laraque and Holland are both masters of their craft. It stand to reason that if Laraque wree available, Holland would have done diligence and given him a look. That doesn't mean I'm certain we would have gotten him, I'm sure other teams would have been interested too.

I do not believe that Laraque's not being signed by Detroit had anything to do with Holland being "too busy" signing others as you stated. If Laraque wanted to be here and Holland wanted him here, he would be here.

See how easy that was? No sarcasm, no caps.

Wrong - He wrote on www.RDS.ca couple of years ago that he would never play in Montreal because of media. He went to Montreal and the main reason is money.

[Dominator2005 558]

I agree with this point.....Lucic comes to mind again!

Downey may be a good character in the dressing room, the guys might love him for his enthusiasm. But he is a crappy hockey player and a mediocre enforcer at best. Having him on the bench will not deter anyone from taking cheap shots. In order for Downey to "keep the flies" off our star players he would have to be on the ice with them! Downey will not play on anything but the bench and 4th line. He will not be able to stop anyone roughing up our player from either the bench or 4th line AND if he is being ordered to give paybacks then someone has already taken their cheapshot on our player. Having Downey in the line up will do absolutely nothing to improve our hockey team. Our main problem is defense right now, Downey can't change that! He is in GR where he belongs!

We could drafted Lučić - Detroit passed on him twice... They drafted Matthias and Emmerton and we really needed big player like Milan Lučić. I can't see Boston trading him anyway...

[Dominator2005 558]

Well for future reference I don't need your pity, and sarcasm is a tool used in daily life, for humor and/or emphasis. You must feel pity for a lot of people. I am really glad that I got to converse with such a humanitarian that you feel for so many people. My life seems fuller for having met some one of you high character and moral fiber.

What this has to do with Holland signing or not signing Larague is beyond me but, a lot of conversations that happen here are beyond me.

But please do tell me how Holland was going to fit a 1.5m 3 year contract under the cap with what he has. He most certainly would have had to give up on A) Hossa B) Stuart or trade Sammy and Lilja. But wait Holland signed both of those guys and when everyone is healthy again is still going to need to trade some one, Quincey did not free up the necessary space.

Explain to me, in ways other than trying feeble attacks at my posts, how Laraque fits into the Wings as of the end of last post season. How does he handle signing Laraque and then what does he do with Lilja, Stuart, Flip, Hossa, Conklin, D-mac, Downey. I would be very interested in this theory.

I agree with you - why would Holland give that kind of money for Laraque when you can go cheaper with McGratten, MacIntyre or even Andre Roy. Go after legit heavyweight and dress him when you need him.

What we need is players like Neil, Clowe, Moen, Mayers, Voros... thay can play 5-5 (again problem with scoring 5-5), on PK... They can drop the gloves when needed, skate, hit and maybe score sometimes...

[egroen 384]

Laraque is a terrible "enforcer"... he enforces nothing and will only fight legitimate heavyweights who are willing in a pre-meditated bout. He is a gentleman pugilist and not the type of player who would cold-cock a pest/dirty player like Lemiuex ala McCarty.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Marian Hossa has been on 3 teams in what, a calender year?

So much for that argument

That's just stupid. Hossa was on 2 different teams in 1 year and 1 different team this year. To add them together and say he was on 3 different teams in one caledar year is just stupid.