GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 The Red Wings don't need new players. They need the players they have to start playing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) The Red Wings don't need new players. They need the players they have to start playing. Then you better be prepared for the possibility of that not happening on a consistent basis this year. We talk all day long about how Babcock is a coach that demands an incredible work ethic from this team. We can talk all day about what a great bunch of guys we have on this team. We can talk all day about what the Wings are capable of. But that doesn't mean anything. Put yourself in their shoes. Half these guys have luxurious contracts to fall back on for 3 years or more (Datsyuk, Stuart, Cleary, Filppula, Rafalski, and Kronwall). Other guys are immune to severe punishment due to the Wings loyalty clause (Lidstrom, Ozzie, Homer, Draper, Maltby, McCarty). Other guys have NTCs to protect them (Cleary, Raffi, Stuart). And ALL of them except two have just won the ultimate prize and its no surprise that those two guys who HAVEN'T won the cup are arguably the only ones playing up to their potential and beyond for at least the last 8-10 games. As fans, we tend to give the players superhuman qualities. The fact is, they're human. They fall prey to complacency. We saw it happen 5 years ago. We saw it happen with incredible players like Selanne, Pronger, and Giguere last year. We saw the effect that a guy like Dallas Drake can have on a team to guard against that complacency, and if you ask me, thats going to require a shake up. Do I think the Wings HAVE to make some substantial roster changes to be successful in the regular season? No. Do I think the Wings HAVE to make some substantial roster changes to be substantial in the off-season? Yes. Edit - theres irony in that you have Billups as your avatar. I wouldn't mind a Dumars-like move right now Edited November 13, 2008 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nutz2u Report post Posted November 13, 2008 What's that smell? s***TY DEFENSE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donaldjr2448 43 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 The Red Wings don't need new players. They need the players they have to start playing. I totally agree with you!! However I'm a bit concerned at why people on this website hate Sammy so much. Folks you have to remember that he has I believe 12 points in 14 games. That is .86 points per game from a 3rd liner!!! I highly doubt that anyone in GR is going to be able to do that right off the bat!! Keep in mind Hossa leads the team with 19 points!! I will say this, its not only our Defenseman that are playing bad, its our Forwards as well. Our Forwards have been turning the puck over alot. The Wings rely on the forst pass out of the zone, and that transition makes our offense so great. You got a look at that during the late first period and during the second perod, then we went to sleep and QUIT!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donaldjr2448 43 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 Then you better be prepared for the possibility of that not happening on a consistent basis this year. We talk all day long about how Babcock is a coach that demands an incredible work ethic from this team. We can talk all day about what a great bunch of guys we have on this team. We can talk all day about what the Wings are capable of. But that doesn't mean anything. Put yourself in their shoes. Half these guys have luxurious contracts to fall back on for 3 years or more (Datsyuk, Stuart, Cleary, Filppula, Rafalski, and Kronwall). Other guys are immune to severe punishment due to the Wings loyalty clause (Lidstrom, Ozzie, Homer, Draper, Maltby, McCarty). Other guys have NTCs to protect them (Cleary, Raffi, Stuart). And ALL of them except two have just won the ultimate prize and its no surprise that those two guys who HAVEN'T won the cup are arguably the only ones playing up to their potential and beyond for at least the last 8-10 games. As fans, we tend to give the players superhuman qualities. The fact is, they're human. They fall prey to complacency. We saw it happen 5 years ago. We saw it happen with incredible players like Selanne, Pronger, and Giguere last year. We saw the effect that a guy like Dallas Drake can have on a team to guard against that complacency, and if you ask me, thats going to require a shake up. Do I think the Wings HAVE to make some substantial roster changes to be successful in the regular season? No. Do I think the Wings HAVE to make some substantial roster changes to be substantial in the off-season? Yes. Edit - theres irony in that you have Billups as your avatar. I wouldn't mind a Dumars-like move right now Hey Youngguns, do you think that a trade for Hudler and Lilja could be in the works. Huds as 12 points in 14 games and has the ring along with Lillypads!! I wouldn't mind seeing a Joe D move now, but I don't think it has to be as drastic as Allen Iverson!!! But I get what your saying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 I totally agree with you!! However I'm a bit concerned at why people on this website hate Sammy so much. Folks you have to remember that he has I believe 12 points in 14 games. That is .86 points per game from a 3rd liner!!! I highly doubt that anyone in GR is going to be able to do that right off the bat!! Keep in mind Hossa leads the team with 19 points!! I will say this, its not only our Defenseman that are playing bad, its our Forwards as well. Our Forwards have been turning the puck over alot. The Wings rely on the forst pass out of the zone, and that transition makes our offense so great. You got a look at that during the late first period and during the second perod, then we went to sleep and QUIT!!! I don't hate Sammy as much as I dislike the manner in which Babcock plays Samuelsson. To be perfectly honest, Sammy doesn't deserve half of the ice time he gets. He is careless with the puck and IMO is very overrated from a defensive standpoint. Sammy can make mistakes galore and Babcock will stay play him in any situation. Jiri Hudler gets the exact opposite treatment. Hudler was exceptional last night (far better than Sammy, who was awful) and yet Sammy play doubled what Hudler did and I can't recall Jiri getting a single shift after he scored. Sammy may play on the third line technically, but he seemingly always gets equal or more playing time than Fraznen, Filppula, and hell even Hossa at times. Babcock is a hypocrite when it comes to Sammy and Hudler. Hudler is a far better player than Sammy and somehow Babcock's obsession with Sammy overshadows that fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoe 165 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 3 old geezers not in the lineup this year. Hasek Drake Chellios. Sometimes you need these older guys to settle things down. Im hoping someone old and hungry shows up at the trade deadline. Where this person would fit in I dont know thats kind of a strange problem this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
South Dakota wings fan 7 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 Hey Youngguns, do you think that a trade for Hudler and Lilja could be in the works. Huds as 12 points in 14 games and has the ring along with Lillypads!! I wouldn't mind seeing a Joe D move now, but I don't think it has to be as drastic as Allen Iverson!!! But I get what your saying I think Hudler's stock is on the rise, he won't fit into the future payroll, and that Kenny should seriously look to trade him. It would free up a little cap room if they got picks in return. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 Then you better be prepared for the possibility of that not happening on a consistent basis this year. We talk all day long about how Babcock is a coach that demands an incredible work ethic from this team. We can talk all day about what a great bunch of guys we have on this team. We can talk all day about what the Wings are capable of. But that doesn't mean anything. Put yourself in their shoes. Half these guys have luxurious contracts to fall back on for 3 years or more (Datsyuk, Stuart, Cleary, Filppula, Rafalski, and Kronwall). Other guys are immune to severe punishment due to the Wings loyalty clause (Lidstrom, Ozzie, Homer, Draper, Maltby, McCarty). Other guys have NTCs to protect them (Cleary, Raffi, Stuart). And ALL of them except two have just won the ultimate prize and its no surprise that those two guys who HAVEN'T won the cup are arguably the only ones playing up to their potential and beyond for at least the last 8-10 games. As fans, we tend to give the players superhuman qualities. The fact is, they're human. They fall prey to complacency. We saw it happen 5 years ago. We saw it happen with incredible players like Selanne, Pronger, and Giguere last year. We saw the effect that a guy like Dallas Drake can have on a team to guard against that complacency, and if you ask me, thats going to require a shake up. Do I think the Wings HAVE to make some substantial roster changes to be successful in the regular season? No. Do I think the Wings HAVE to make some substantial roster changes to be substantial in the off-season? Yes. Edit - theres irony in that you have Billups as your avatar. I wouldn't mind a Dumars-like move right now This is a very good post YoungGuns. The more I considered what you stated about the Red Wings currently, the more I agreed with your sentiment. The Red Wings are definitely missing that drive from last season. We watched them dominate on a nightly basis, which is why the first 14 games are so frustrating and puzzling. It's probably natural to get complacent after winning a championship, but it doesn't make it acceptable. Look no further than the Pistons to see the definition of a complacent core that needed a change. It took three years of lackluster effort, but it happened. The Red Wings don't need an Iverson-like trade, but a subtle roster move may help get that spark back. I think Darren Helm could be that spark if it comes from within the organization. As it gets closer to the deadline, a Dallas Drake type player would be a great addition too. Overall though, this is a problem only the Red Wings players themselves can fix. They are hands down the most skilled team in the NHL. If they ever decide to play defense like last season, there's no excuse not to win another championship. Babcock needs to instill some focus, Lidstrom needs to lead by example, and they need to realize quickly just showing up because they are the Red Wings doesn't win games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckbags 863 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 This place sounds like circa last winter when we went on a losing streak...people were jumping off buildings..playing fantasy gm and trading the whole f***in team...blaming anyone they could and then whadda ya know we straightened it out played great hockey and went on to win the cup. For f*** sakes people be glad that this is happening in November and not come playoff time. Plenty of time to figure this out, it will happen, we will play better and we will win the cup again !! if we were 2-3-9 it might be time to start looking at some roster moves but we are 9-2-3 and still have our heads way above water amidst our medicore defensive play !! Chill out ........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stlwing14 0 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 Joey Kocur needs to throw a chair on the ice... Finally, someone said it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 Joey Kocur needs to throw a chair on the ice... qft But seriously, this team's woes are all defense-oriented -- and when I say that, I'm referring specifically to the guys along the blue line. If there's going to be a shakeup, it should be within the top 5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 This place sounds like circa last winter when we went on a losing streak...people were jumping off buildings..playing fantasy gm and trading the whole f***in team... Yep, that's exactly what it's like right now. Good call. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lfd250 1 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 Good news everyone. I forwarded all your ideas to Kenny, he think you're all right! He's getting ride of the coaching staff and will be going with the ideas found here. SO KEEP THEM COMEING! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 *rid *coming If you're going to be an ass, you should at least know how to spell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted November 13, 2008 qft But seriously, this team's woes are all defense-oriented -- and when I say that, I'm referring specifically to the guys along the blue line. If there's going to be a shakeup, it should be within the top 5. I agree. I dont see how people think a rookie bottom liner or 6th Dman is somehow going to have an effect on how our elite Dmen are doing. A guy like Fischer would be great to add to this team right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites