Pick 1 of the 3 for next year:

[egroen 384]

Ok, let's say with the cap next year Holland can only afford to keep one of the following 3 players:

Hudler

Samuelsson

Filppula

Who would you keep? Filppula is signed for 4 more years with a cap hit of $3 million per year and would have to be traded if you keep Hudler or Samuelsson. Hudler and Samuelsson could probably command similar or slightly less dollars as Filppula at this point (feel free to disagree).

I would have included Cleary and his $2.8 million per year, but he has a no-trade clause for the first 3 1/2 years of his deal.

This has nothing to do with whether or not Holland has been able to sign Zetterberg, Hossa or Franzen.... but go ahead and assume he was able to sign two of them if it impacts your decision.

Who would you keep and why?

Edited November 26, 2008 by egroen

[Guest Four]

Hulder, easy. When he finds the right players to play with, he plays a lot better than either Filppula or Sammy.

[egroen 384]

Filppula plays the best defense out of the 3, but so far has been playing like a young Draper, complete with stone hands. Not worth his contract at this point but is still young and could improve. For NHL standards, however, he is signed to a great contract and could command a nice juicy trade package.

Samuelsson has proven he can produce on any line, plays good defense, agitates and can be suprisingly effective when he goes to the net. Might stay for a bargain, but certainly will command more than his current $1.2 million. Drives fans insane, but might stay with Detroit for the least amount of money of the three.

There's a chance Hudler might sign for less than Filppula at this point as well, but there is also a chance he could get a $2.6+ million offer sheet worth a 1st and 3rd round pick. It is almost tempiting to wish for one, but Huder is easily the most offensively talented of the 3, with the best hands, passing and on-ice sense. He is also smaller than your average 15 year-old and has yet to prove he can produce with regular top line minutes.

Edited November 26, 2008 by egroen

[vangvace 12]

Hudler because he's easy to troll with...

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Isnt Hudler gone after this year anyways?

[CrossoverThrash 0]

samuelsson too i think

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Sammys utility really comes on the PP, because of our lack of a good 4th point man on the PP. Ericsson will be up full time next year, so there goes Sammys main use.

Filppula is expensive at 3M for a guy who is on pace for about 35 points. Helm makes 1/6 of what Filppula does, is just as good defensively and is even a faster skater. He lacks the experience, but thats what the playing time is for. I also imagine he could put up about 20 or so points centering the third line. He could easily replace Filppula. Also, what Flip could command in a trade has to be taken into consideration as well.

That leaves Hudler. Not only does the guy get points for minimal minutes, but hes developing his game coninually. Of the three players mentioned, he has the best raw talent. Best shot, best shot placement, and best offensive positioning. He knows where to be on the ice. Considering pretty much everyone on the roster outside of Hudler, Kopecky, and Homer is a good defensive/two-way forward, its not a problem to have a guy who is mostly offense. He also wouldnt command as much as Flip in a trade because of his contract status.

Finally, the best part about Hudler is the fact that hes an RFA and arbitration eligible. At most, I could see him getting what Flip makes at 3M from an arbiter. The good thing is, that contract can only be signed for 1-2 years, depending on who elects arbitration, so if he does get a higher number from an arbiter, we only have to accept the 1 year contract, and next season when Lidstrom either takes a paycut or retires, we'll have money to handle without having our hands tied to a big contract for a player who is still getting paid (somewhat) on potential and we also dont lose him for nothing.

Edited November 26, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Isnt Hudler gone after this year anyways?

Not sure what you mean by that, but hes a RFA and arbitration eligible at that.

[FinRedWing 172]

Filppula is expensive at 3M for a guy who is on pace for about 35 points. Helm makes 1/6 of what Filppula does, is just as good defensively and is even a faster skater. He lacks the experience, but thats what the playing time is for. I also imagine he could put up about 20 or so points centering the third line. He could easily replace Filppula. Also, what Flip could command in a trade has to be taken into consideration as well.

That leaves Hudler. Not only does the guy get points for minimal minutes, but hes developing his game coninually.

People have to remember we haven't actually been banging goals in 5 on 5 and if your minimal minutes still include playing in a hot PP,no wonder Hudler gets points.

And I'm not saying he hasn't been good,in fact he's been excellent.

This is not to you YoungGuns,but who expected anymore than 35-40 points from Filppula playing in a third line with no PP time? I sure didn't.

[egroen 384]

Sammy is getting no love!

So I thought I would make a case for him. He is the only one of the three we would lose outright with nothing in return. Filppula might command a very nice return in a trade and there is a very good chance Hudler might receive an offer sheet. He is the only one of the three, with his size, who has had much success driving to the net and he also might give a nice hometown discount to the Wings, perhaps signing for around $2 million. Can play in all situations.

Both Filppula and Hudler could be replaced at with much smaller contracts:

Leino has close to the offensive skills of Hudler, with more size, speed and defensive potential.

Helm has the speed of Filppula, with the potential of being just as strong defensively and offensively as well.

Neither of those guys has the size and grit of Samuelsson, however.

Edited November 26, 2008 by egroen

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Not sure what you mean by that, but hes a RFA and arbitration eligible at that.

then nvm

[Zion 93]

MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON MIKAEL SAMUELSSON

[mjlegend 155]

26

I demand more drunken cheerleading sessions from Huds at the end of Stanley Cup parades 2010 through-2015. In the year the Wings don't win, the winning team has to hire him out.

Also, the kid has the best raw talent of any of the three and is IMO better defensively than people give him credit for.

[zata40 3]

Hudler.

He's got great potential. So far this year in 20 games he's got 7 goals and 11 assists. Plus hes been playing a lot better defensively this year ( if you exclude this miss handling of the puck last game that is). He's been getting crap minutes forever and still was getting a good amount of points. It's just recently he's been given more ice time, and hes not letting it go to waste. The kids been working his ass of, and you can see the improvement.

Flip is a close second, but sammy, bye bye.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Tough choices.

At the end of last year, I would've probably chose Flipper without much hesitation.

Right now though, Hudler is providing the best bang/buck though while Flipper is struggling a bit. I know Flipper is labeled more as a defensive-type player but from scoring nearly 20 goals last year and having a solid playoffs, you'd think he'd have some more production right now.

I was never on the Samuelsson whipping boy train thankfully. Wouldn't have really been all that fun to begin with. He's far from my favorite but I never really understood how he was just downright horrible last season to deserve the status, and he's played really well this year so far.

I am glad to have all three with the Wings right now though.

[edicius 3,269]

If Babcock had a tendency to PLAY Hudler more, I'd say Hudler, hands down.

But considering that for some inexplicable reason, Babcock doesn't seem to be a fan of Rex's, I'd go with Flip.

So, for sheer playing value? Hudler.

But for practicality (at least with Babcock)? Flip.

[thedatsyukian 7]

Hudler. I think he has the most potential.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

If Babcock had a tendency to PLAY Hudler more, I'd say Hudler, hands down.

But considering that for some inexplicable reason, Babcock doesn't seem to be a fan of Rex's, I'd go with Flip.

So, for sheer playing value? Hudler.

But for practicality (at least with Babcock)? Flip.

However, once some roster decisions have to be made, talent is gonna get cut. If Hossa and Sammy are gone, Hudler by proxy will get more time.

Oh wait. Never mind. Kopecky will just be promoted to a top 6 spot full time and we'll have a parade down woodward when he hits the 20 point mark in the middle of April.

[wingslionstigers 12]

This is not to you YoungGuns,but who expected anymore than 35-40 points from Filppula playing in a third line with no PP time? I sure didn't.

Finally someone understands.

Whats with you guys that only value how many points a player has anyways? Do some you guys see nothing more than who scores goals out there?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Finally someone understands.

Whats with you guys that only value how many points a player has anyways? Do some you guys see nothing more than who scores goals out there?

Do you understand how many players we have that can play a defensive game and supplement our PK?

We also see this thing called money - of which Filppula makes a hell of a lot for what he brings to this team. Tonight was a prime example. Not much difference between the play of Helm and Flip - despite the $2,500,000 difference in payroll.

Also, at even strength, Hudler plays 10:16.

At even strength, Filppula plays 13:42

At even strength, Filppula has 8 points.

At even strength, Hudler has 8 points.

So in short, Hudler is STILL more productive offensively than Filppula at even strength. And just so you know, thats 73 more even strength minutes overall that Filppula has had to score just one, little point more than Hudler. Yet he hasnt.

Edited November 27, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[wingslionstigers 12]

Hudlers also gotten to play even strength with Zetterberg on his line. This is stupid i have no reason to argue against Hudler i think hes great.

If you can't see how good of a player Flip is your not worth my time but ill give it to you. If you think Helm is as good or better your high bud. Did you miss Helms turnover in the defensive zone that lead to a goal tonight? Thats the difference. The difference is that Helms or any other rookie getting paid .7 mill a season like your claiming is going to turn the puck over a very high % more than flip throughout the season which could result in lost games. The difference is although Flip may not be an explosive goal scorer. He makes a smart pass which doesn't lead to a turn over, hes smart with the puck and always gets the puck in deep without turn overs, he holds on to the puck well killing time so our 2 scoring lines can rest without causing damage, he back checks well, hes one of our top defensive players. Do you realize Helms little tiny rookie mistake in the neutral zone which turn the puck over could result in a goal? No you would never see that far. Youd never realize if you had Filp on the ice that the puck woulda been in deep and there would have never been that scoring chance.

Bottem line Flip blows these little .?? mill a year players your dreaming about. The fact is you dont have a clue what your talking about. The only thing you can manage to see is the stats sheet.

Why do you think Crawford said this? "He talked about how almost every team in the league would love to have Filp as their second line center, talked about that at length, and how in Detroit there's hardly any ice time left for him on the 3rd line."

Must be because all of these .7 mill a year players are so much better than Flip at 3 mill a year. Dude you must know more than Crawford to.

[VM1138 1,921]

I can't choose. Filpulla can be let go. I think it's fair to say it'll be a long time before he reaches his potential, if he ever does. For some reason it's just not clicking for him, and hasn't ever since his first year here. Let him go.

As for Sammy and Hudler, I'm torn. Hudler is streaky but can be an amazing player. Sammy can't shoot worth a can of beans, but he's solid defensively.

I'd say, all things considered, I'd keep Sammy, if we're not talking long-term. Defense wins championships and in order to win the Cup again the Wings have to bring back their backchecking defensive-awareness, so Sammy wins out over Hudler, but barely.

Ideally we let go of Filpulla and Kopecky, resign Hossa, and keep Hudler and Sammy, but I doubt if the cap and contracts will allow that.

[Bannedforlife 403]

Bottem line Flip blows these little .?? mill a year players your dreaming about. The fact is you dont have a clue what your talking about. The only thing you can manage to see is the stats sheet.

Who is Filppula blowing???

I voted Hudler, but I think I would change it to Sammy. Like someone else said, there is the potential to get a return for both Filppula and Hudler, and I think Sammy would be willing to sign for a nice hometown discount. Filppula and Hudler are replaceable and we could use their money to sign a nice free agent if Hossa goes elsewhere.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Bannedforlife

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Hudlers also gotten to play even strength with Zetterberg on his line. This is stupid i have no reason to argue against Hudler i think hes great.

If you can't see how good of a player Flip is your not worth my time but ill give it to you. If you think Helm is as good or better your high bud. Did you miss Helms turnover in the defensive zone that lead to a goal tonight? Thats the difference. The difference is that Helms or any other rookie getting paid .7 mill a season like your claiming is going to turn the puck over a very high % more than flip throughout the season which could result in lost games. The difference is although Flip may not be an explosive goal scorer. He makes a smart pass which doesn't lead to a turn over, hes smart with the puck and always gets the puck in deep without turn overs, he holds on to the puck well killing time so our 2 scoring lines can rest without causing damage, he back checks well, hes one of our top defensive players. Do you realize Helms little tiny rookie mistake in the neutral zone which turn the puck over could result in a goal? No you would never see that far. Youd never realize if you had Filp on the ice that the puck woulda been in deep and there would have never been that scoring chance.

Bottem line Flip blows these little .?? mill a year players your dreaming about. The fact is you dont have a clue what your talking about. The only thing you can manage to see is the stats sheet.

Why do you think Crawford said this? "He talked about how almost every team in the league would love to have Filp as their second line center, talked about that at length, and how in Detroit there's hardly any ice time left for him on the 3rd line."

Must be because all of these .7 mill a year players are so much better than Flip at 3 mill a year. Dude you must know more than Crawford to.

First of all, where were you educated? Just so you know, excessive grammar mistakes distract readers from your argument. Not that you have much of one.

Now, Helm's mistake tonight was rare from what we've seen of him. Filppula has made his fair share of mistakes this season - defensive mistakes and especially ill-timed penalties. Second of all, we're talking about Helm (who makes less than 700k) vs. Filppula. Not any other rookie. Finally, in Filppula's 22 playoff games last year, he had 1 giveaway. In Helm's 18 playoffs last year, he had 1 giveaway. Even if you adjust TOI, history says your "Helm will have a much higher giveaway %" argument doesn't hold much water. And a few extra mistakes is nothing that time with the big leagues won't fix. The fact that Flip is in the midst of his third full season while Helm has yet to have that chance, and there still isnt that big of a gap between the two in terms of play says a lot. And Filppula being a great PKer or defensive forward is nothing that warrants 3M per season when we have 7 other forwards who can do his job just as good, if not better. And 5 of those guys make less than 3M doing it.

Also, do you watch the games without your blinders on? Everybody thats been watching this team throughout all the games this season knows Hudler was kicked off the 2nd line in the middle of the 2nd game. Since then, Filppula has probably seen about as many even strength shifts with Hank as Hudler got in that 1.5 game stint..

As for Crawford, theres a reason why hes an unemployed coach right now. And I've probably seen more Red Wings games this year than he has, and since Filppula has joined the team.

Oh yeah, and just so you know, Filppula has more giveaways than Hudler does so far this year. So does Franzen. And Maltby. And Draper. And Kopecky. And Cleary. And I'm sure we'd never get along without him on the PK, given that his currently 5th in PKing among forwards.

Edited November 27, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[wingslionstigers 12]

First of all, where were you educated? Just so you know, excessive grammar mistakes distract readers from your argument. Not that you have much of one.

CMU and are you kidding me right now? Didnt think i was taking a grammar test. Only a moron like you would get distracted by my spelling/grammar. Do you really think im going to take the time to make sure/double check to see if my grammar is up to standards. I'm already wasting enough time as it is typing at 300 words per minute to a clueless guy like yourself. Id be better off trying to explain this to my dog.

As for Crawford, theres a reason why hes an unemployed coach right now. And I've probably seen more Red Wings games this year than he has, and since Filppula has joined the team.

Get real. How long has Crawford coached in the NHL? The point is that this guy knows 1000000000000x more than you do about hockey. This guys job at many points was to study flips play and the rest of the wings roster and educate his team about it which are NHL players by the way so... Yeah. I'm sure hes very aware of what hes talking about when he talked about Flips.

Now.... Why do you think im comparing flips to huds? Plus huds you might as well just say is going to be a 3 mill a year player as soon as they ink a new contract. I'm comparing flips to your .7 mill a year players your talking about that you claim are all just as good as flips.

Also where are you getting all these numbers from? Want to make it official post these numbers up for us all to see then well talk.