Red Wings Shuffle Line Combos, Defense Pairs

[The Mule 0]

Great. I'll keep my fingers crossed that these changes can spark the team to play a stronger game.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Keep in mind that when Homer and Z were both hurt last year, Cleary-Pav-Flip was a pretty effective line for a while there. Cleary had it going full-tilt and Flip was playing pretty good hockey too.

I think Lids-Stuart is going to be the quietest defensive pairing in recent history..

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

If it helps improve the team's defense, do it.

[Guest mindfly]

Franzen could still play like 15-17mins as a third liner could he not?

[AtomicPunk 296]

I like the message that is being sent. This isn't working as well as it should, even though we are winning.

HOWEVER... I do like that Z has a real threat on his line, which should open up more space for him. Hossa can carry the puck, create in space, and score. He can also set up Z, which is how he got his goal the other night. He needs a puck carrier instead of him lugging the puck in all the time.

Datsyuk's line, however, takes a hit. I would like to see Dats, Hudler and Flip on the line and Drapes moved up to the third line. Speed kills.

AND speed lets them get back defensively, which might be another reason for the line shuffling.

[Chunkylover 26]

I give Cleary five minutes on that line before he's swapped with Samuelsson. Hopefully Sammy can keep from hitting Hossa with an errant shot.

Filppula probably understands how Datsyuk thinks better than anyone (save Zetterberg) so it makes sense to put them together. Hopefully Homer can handle the work load a little better than Saturday.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Franzen could still play like 15-17mins as a third liner could he not?

Probably. Franzen will still be on the power play and spend time killing penalties.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Keep in mind that when Homer and Z were both hurt last year, Cleary-Pav-Flip was a pretty effective line for a while there. Cleary had it going full-tilt and Flip was playing pretty good hockey too.

I think Lids-Stuart is going to be the quietest defensive pairing in recent history..

Yeah I remember and really liked that line actually. This changeup should have good results I think, it's just what we need.

Maybe We'll see Hossa Datsyuk Zetterberg on the PP

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Who else here thinks that Holland promised Hossa that he guaranteed him on a line with either Dats or Zetter?

Maybe it's stipulation that Holland had to make to get Hossa on this team for that price?

I doubt it. Hossa is a top six forward, just like Z and Pavel. It wouldn't make much sense to sign Hossa and stick him on the third line with Filppula and Hudler.

Edited December 8, 2008 by GoWings1905

[Guest mindfly]

Who else here thinks that Holland promised Hossa that he guaranteed him on a line with either Dats or Zetter?

Maybe it's stipulation that Holland had to make to get Hossa on this team for that price?

They probably didnt discuss it as it's so obvious waste of talent if he werent playing with either of them.

[dallas27 7]

my thoughts exactly, didnt he shuffle the lines like this in the playoffs?

I could have sworn that Kronwall was paired up with Lidstrom for part of the playoffs last year. I can't be too sure though.

Who else here thinks that Holland promised Hossa that he guaranteed him on a line with either Dats or Zetter?

Maybe it's stipulation that Holland had to make to get Hossa on this team for that price?

I was at the game on Thursday and you'll never guess the line that I thought put the most pressure in Vancouver's zone all game. Hossa - Draper - Meech. They were all over the ice, got at least three shots on net. At first I was confused to as why Hossa was out there with them, looked at the clock and saw they had a tv break coming up so he would have plenty of time to catch his breath, made a lot more sense.

[stormboy 47]

yeah, i think it's worth a try. big fan of the defensive pairings.

second line i'm okay with...hossa and z should be good together, though i'm i little sad to see hossa and dats split up. they've been a bit cold the last few games but seemed like they'd finally found their chemistry before that. maybe babs didn't think they were going to get it back together.

to me, the filppula-datsyuk combination is the biggest question mark, for me. i don't clearly remember them playing together last year (i'm sure it happened, i just don't remember) but it seems like they could have good chemistry...but again, it depends on filppula kind of getting over that hump such that he's actually playing very well.

it'll take homer a game or two to get his legs back--he looked pretty out of it last game, but i'm sure he'll get back into it.

i'm also sorry to see franzen and z split up--i thought they were playing well together. however, sammy-franzen-huds seems like it has some potential.

to me, this seems more like a 2a-2b-2c-4 set up. you have a line with a couple good passers but no scorers, a line with two good scorers without a great set up man, and a line that's a bit mixed (sammy does shoot, but isn't great, and has been passing more--franzen is a shooter, hudler can do both fairly well) but doesn't have a super-star on it.

maybe an even more balanced attack will work?

btw, have we ever seen hossa-datsyuk-zetterberg at any time, even during a powerplay or anything? obviously that kinda kills our depth but i'd still like to see it from time to time...

[ComradeWasabi 109]

No, I was talking about why we don't have the D-Z-H line anymore. That would make them the 2nd like or Hossa's line with Flip-Hoss-Franz on the 1st or 2nd.

Babcock seems hardheaded about playing Zetter and Dats together for a game or half of game. Why is that?

He doesn't have to. Offensively, the Wings have been in sync all year. Honestly, the worries about getting enough scoring out of our team are unfounded; we've scored three goals or more in 22 out of 26 games thus far. Unfortunately, we've given up three or more in 17 out of 26. The defensive capabilities of the lines are what need to be mixed up and hence the defensive pairing changes.

Instead of wondering how effectively we'll be able to score goals, which hasn't been a problem, we should examine each line's defensive value. However, that kind of thing is much harder to categorize into groups like setup man, shooter, power forward.

I think this shakeup was done simply to make everyone start from scratch and break bad habits that might have formed playing with a consistent group in the last two months.

Edited December 8, 2008 by ComradeWasabi

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I love the fact that we are breaking up Kronwall and Stuart

[Cern 0]

btw, have we ever seen hossa-datsyuk-zetterberg at any time, even during a powerplay or anything? obviously that kinda kills our depth but i'd still like to see it from time to time...

I think I remember seeing Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hossa-Holmstrom-Lidstrom-Rafalski as a desperation line, does that count?

Now THAT'S a frightening line, thinking about it...

Edited December 8, 2008 by Cern

[Louisville 112]

"I just want us to play better," Mike Babcock said. "I don't know if it's going to stick till Wednesday. I just want the team to play better."

Let's keep in mind this is just what the Wings practiced with, and Babs has been known to change his mind on game day.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

No, I was talking about why we don't have the D-Z-H line anymore. That would make them the 2nd like or Hossa's line with Flip-Hoss-Franz on the 1st or 2nd.

Babcock seems hardheaded about playing Zetter and Dats together for a game or half of game. Why is that?

I don't know exactly. My best guess is because they are both natural centers and it allows each of them to center their own line. I would also presume that with the amount of depth the Red Wings have at forward, nothing is sacrificed by not having Z and Pav together. It's a matchup nightmare for other teams. It's incredible really - there is no dropoff either offensively or defensively between the Red Wings top two lines. Hossa adds a whole new dimension to the attack.

[FinRedWing 172]

Interesting combos,I wouldn't change Hudler-Filppula-Cleary (or Kopecky) though,now when they're producing 5 on 5.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I would love to see us experiment with Datsyuk and Zetterberg together

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm not a big fan of Flip-Dats-Homer ... there's no natural shooter on the line. I am happy to see some shuffling, but I'm still holding out for ZDH. If we're looking to put a jump in our game, I don't think there's a better combo for it ... maybe something like:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Cleary-Filppula-Hossa

Hudler-Franzen-Samuelsson

Kopecky-Draper-Maltby

or maybe switch Franzen with Cleary or Flip ...

You know, if you move Filppula down to the third line, and have him center Franzen and Samuelsson like he did in the playoffs last year during the Colorado series, and then move Hudler up because he's the most capable playmaker left to center Hossa after you've assembled DZH (with Z at center like he was most of last year) then you know what you have?

The lines I suggested going into the preseason. Funny how that works out.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

You know, if you move Filppula down to the third line, and have him center Franzen and Samuelsson like he did in the playoffs last year during the Colorado series, and then move Hudler up because he's the most capable playmaker left to center Hossa after you've assembled DZH (with Z at center like he was most of last year) then you know what you have?

The lines I suggested going into the preseason. Funny how that works out.

Except that Hudler will never play center under babcock.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I think hank and hoss can create some magic but I don't dig the mule being on the third line.

Franzen on the 3rd line definitely jumped out at me as odd too. I think if anything, you do what many were calling for the second Hossa was acquired: Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Homer and Hossa-Filppula-Franzen as the two top lines. Surprised we haven't seen that yet, I for one would love to see it.

[eva unit zero 271]

Except that Hudler will never play center under babcock.

I think it's a combination of his defense and faceoffs. Franzen is worse than Hudler on faceoffs, but much better defensively. Hudler is ok on both, but he's no star on either. If Hudler improved his defense a bit and worked on his faceoffs, he could center the second line; especially with Cleary and Hossa as his wingers.

[Guest MrSandMan]

Franzen on the 3rd line definitely jumped out at me as odd too. I think if anything, you do what many were calling for the second Hossa was acquired: Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Homer and Hossa-Filppula-Franzen as the two top lines. Surprised we haven't seen that yet, I for one would love to see it.

I'm starting to think that Holland and Hossa bargained in order to get Hossa, that maybe Hossa stipulated that he be on a line with either Dats and zetter or both and nobody else. Just a thought.

[dicksmack 33]

Top line is brutal. Why not try Franzen with Datsyuk? Fil is far from a goal scorer and no one is going to shoot on that line! I figure he's doing that strictly to get Datsyuk to shoot (and in a perfect world score) more.

I agree. If the idea is to regain some of last year's defensive dynamics--and since we are scoring fine, it should be--then why not go back to ZDH? That's a really questionable line and hopefully it is reconsidered fast. I mean, Homer's not even back in shape yet, he was so slow out there. Pav is a playmaker, you wouldn't want to put him without a scorer. Huds or Franzen if not Hoss or Z...

Maybe part of the reason Z and D were both Selke nominees last year was their amazing two-way chemistry... I know they weren't togther the entire year but were for a good chunk.