FunkedUp 29 Report post Posted December 22, 2008 I think what we're going to see here is some type of Lecavalier deal. His deal is (which kicks in next year) 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10. 8.4, 4, 1.5. 1....with a cap hit of 7.727 Million. This to me, seems like a decent option. Z gets his big pay-day, the cap hit doesn't suffer, and all parties are satisfied. However, I'm not quite clear on if you can pay monies to your active roster that amount in excess of the cap, but having the cap average be within the cap. Does anyone know about this??? On a purely ridiculous standpoint. We could offer Z a 12 year 80 Million contract as follows... 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 3, 2...which gives us a cap hit of 6.7 Million. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted December 22, 2008 It's not that I care if we disagree, its that I made a comment that you disagreed with and then you told me I was wrong (which is fine) but then changed your disagreement from what I was talking about to what you wanted to talk about then told me that I was not talking about the subject you changed it to. Add to that the fact that you were dismissive of any point or reason that I brought up - not that my point was a wrong - but just that you didn't want to discuss it that aspect or facet of discussion, which is fine if you brought up the subject but you were responding to my statement and then changing what it was about. I am not on a high horse and have always enjoyed your posts before and topics that we have discussed. That is why I am out because it was just turning into (at least this is how it seemed to me) an argument for arguments sake and neither one of us wanted to or was willing to look at the others point. As I said I always enjoyed your posts in the past and it just seems like we were getting no where and no real discussion was taking place (and ultimately the entire conversation was based upon our opinions i.e. which cap date mattered for the Dats signing, thus we were talking past one another). Therefore, rather than get further into the discussion it seems best to drop it. Again, no hard feelings and nothing disparaging meant throughout this thread and look forward to your future posts on a different topic. Cheers....and BTW, I have no idea what you're saying in the first paragraph....that's how far we've gotten off track. TBH, its not that I'm not willing to give an inch or admit when I'm wrong, I just think we're talking about two different things. While I'm arguing for one thing on topic A, you're arguing for another thing on topic B, which has gotten us nowhere. I think the initial numbers misunderstanding is what through us in different directions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted December 22, 2008 Cheers....and BTW, I have no idea what you're saying in the first paragraph....that's how far we've gotten off track. TBH, its not that I'm not willing to give an inch or admit when I'm wrong, I just think we're talking about two different things. While I'm arguing for one thing on topic A, you're arguing for another thing on topic B, which has gotten us nowhere. I think the initial numbers misunderstanding is what through us in different directions. Yeah I think we had two stubborn people (like most hockey fans) and were never on the same page from the start but no big deal. Whats funny is we ended up saying that we thought Z would be signed for roughly the same amount. Ah well, hope it wasn't too much torture for Doggy or anyone else who had to read it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben_usmc 253 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 For all the people who are saying that he would get as much on the open market, this is Detroit. For the wings if you want to play here and win you have to pay the price in that your contract won't be as much as you can get in the open market. It's expected to here to take a discount in order to win, that's even the type of players Holland has always gone for are those that have a win 1st pay 2nd attitude. If he want's 8.5 as much as I like Z let him walk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 For all the people who are saying that he would get as much on the open market, this is Detroit. For the wings if you want to play here and win you have to pay the price in that your contract won't be as much as you can get in the open market. It's expected to here to take a discount in order to win, that's even the type of players Holland has always gone for are those that have a win 1st pay 2nd attitude. If he want's 8.5 as much as I like Z let him walk. How much of a discount to you expect him to take? -$2M/yr? -$3M/yr? -$4M/yr? On the open market Z is going to see $10M/yr offers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben_usmc 253 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 How much of a discount to you expect him to take? -$2M/yr? -$3M/yr? -$4M/yr? On the open market Z is going to see $10M/yr offers. I would expect pretty much the same as Datsyuk. Yes, he is the next captain so that deserves more. But he does have injury problems so. I would hope he takes 7 million Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 How much of a discount to you expect him to take? -$2M/yr? -$3M/yr? -$4M/yr? On the open market Z is going to see $10M/yr offers. With the cap possibly going down, GMs wanting multiple years on the contract - at least 5 - and with crazy offers like those to Malone, Gomez, and Drury bombing big time, no GM is going to throw 10M at Zetterberg. 9M I could see, but not 10. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 With the cap possibly going down, GMs wanting multiple years on the contract - at least 5 - and with crazy offers like those to Malone, Gomez, and Drury bombing big time, no GM is going to throw 10M at Zetterberg. 9M I could see, but not 10. Malone, Gomez, and Drury have never touched what Z has accomplished the last couple years. And even if those GMs in particular might be gunshy about big money contracts you have to believe others will be frothing at the mouth to sign a guy like Z. Franchise caliber center that put up 90+ points in a Selke worthy season and topped it off by leading the playoffs in scoring in a Conn Smythe effort. Teams will be falling all over themselves trying to sign him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 With the cap possibly going down, GMs wanting multiple years on the contract - at least 5 - and with crazy offers like those to Malone, Gomez, and Drury bombing big time, no GM is going to throw 10M at Zetterberg. 9M I could see, but not 10. Really? But they just gave a 38 year old Sundin $10mil. You don't think Kevin Lowe would offer Z $10mil to come to Edmonton? I would if I were him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 From MLive - Progress in Zetterberg talks "The Red Wings have made progress in their efforts to re-sign center Henrik Zetterberg, according to a person familiar with the negotiations. General manager Ken Holland recently met with Zetterberg's agent, Marc Levine, and the sides closed the gap. It will be a long-term deal for seven years or more and likely will be front-loaded so Zetterberg earns more money the first few seasons and less toward the end, keeping the salary-cap number manageable for the club. It remains to be seen whether it will average slightly less or more than Lidstrom's $7.45 million salary." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 Really? But they just gave a 38 year old Sundin $10mil. You don't think Kevin Lowe would offer Z $10mil to come to Edmonton? I would if I were him. No, they gave Sundin $8.6M not $10M which is prorated for the rest of the season out to about $5M and he only got a one year contract. Everything considered most GM's will probably be more wary to sign those big numbers for long term deals because of the concern with the cap going down. I think Z could get a lot on the open market but Sundin got $8.6M and only one year - I think (just my personal guess) Z will want longer terms even if it means the cash is a little lower. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 No, they gave Sundin $8.6M not $10M which is prorated for the rest of the season out to about $5M and he only got a one year contract. Everything considered most GM's will probably be more wary to sign those big numbers for long term deals because of the concern with the cap going down. I think Z could get a lot on the open market but Sundin got $8.6M and only one year - I think (just my personal guess) Z will want longer terms even if it means the cash is a little lower. I stand corrected. $8.6mil it is. It's a moot point though because it looks like Hank is going to sign for somewhere around the 7.45 that Lids make. This is excellent news. Plus we can stop with the Z or Hossa debate. Z it is. General manager Ken Holland recently met with Zetterberg's agent, Marc Levine, and the sides closed the gap. It will be a long-term deal for seven years or more and likely will be front-loaded so Zetterberg earns more money the first few seasons and less toward the end, keeping the salary-cap number manageable for the club. It remains to be seen whether it will average slightly less or more than Lidstrom's $7.45 million salary. Next we get to debate Hossa or Mule and Huds/Sammy/Kopy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 I stand corrected. $8.6mil it is. It's a moot point though because it looks like Hank is going to sign for somewhere around the 7.45 that Lids make. This is excellent news. Plus we can stop with the Z or Hossa debate. Z it is. General manager Ken Holland recently met with Zetterberg's agent, Marc Levine, and the sides closed the gap. It will be a long-term deal for seven years or more and likely will be front-loaded so Zetterberg earns more money the first few seasons and less toward the end, keeping the salary-cap number manageable for the club. It remains to be seen whether it will average slightly less or more than Lidstrom's $7.45 million salary. Next we get to debate Hossa or Mule and Huds/Sammy/Kopy. I had thought it was $10M as well. I guess that I just thought that it was still $10M because that is what they offered him before the season. Anyway when I went to look up what the prorated amount would be I was surprised to see that the contract was only $8.6. The only reason that it really matters to me is that I am hoping it means that there is a general trend for all signings to be going down (although I read somewhere Sundin took less so they could sign/trade for someone else before the deadline. Anyway, great news about Z and I hope it means that we can keep more pieces than we thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 Ansar Khan is saying a front-loaded contract for around 7 years. Could we see: 10 10 8 8 6 6 4 for an average cap hit of $7.43 million Or in my ideal situation: 12 12 6 6 4 4 4 for an average cap hit of $6.86 milion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 Ansar Khan is saying a front-loaded contract for around 7 years. Could we see: 10 10 8 8 6 6 4 for an average cap hit of $7.43 million Or in my ideal situation: 12 12 6 6 4 4 4 for an average cap hit of $6.86 milion Unfortunately, I think this is a little too ideal. The big drop in this case takes place when Z is only 31. Probably a little too early for that kind of dip, but a great hope nonetheless. Besides, $6.86 is a little too fairy-tale scenario, IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) Unfortunately, I think this is a little too ideal. The big drop in this case takes place when Z is only 31. Probably a little too early for that kind of dip, but a great hope nonetheless. Besides, $6.86 is a little too fairy-tale scenario IMHO. I am sure you will be right - but Holland could try and sell it. That extra $5 million (over the average) in the first two years could be invested at a conservative 6% return over the remaining years for an extra $2 million dollars. Effectively making his total return in seven years at $50m instead of $48m - making it $7.14 per year realized. Plus it helps to sign Franzen. Just trying to think outside the box Edited December 23, 2008 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
