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Yzerfan1999

Any News on Zetterberg?

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Regardless of how you feel about Zetterberg vs Hossa. The fact is, Datsyuk, who has led the team in scoring for three years(Would have been four without the lockout), has two Stanley Cups and an equally nice trophy case, makes $6.7 million per season.

NOTHING, either Zetterberg or Hossa has done justifies making anything more than Datsyuk and its that simple. The cap is going down next season and we have an allstar team of players taking less than market value to play in Detroit.

Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin all make over $8.5 mill and quite frankly Zetterberg isn't that kind of player, never has been and never will be.

And yes, he won the Conn Smyth but it could have easily went to Crosby, Hossa or Datsyuk and no one would have questioned it, so he wasn't head and shoulders above the competition.

Everything ive read about Hossa gives me the impression that he'll play for less, less than $8.5

Dats signed his contract 2 or 3 years ago. Inflation has increased salaries since then. If Dats was signing a contract this year it would easily be for 7-8 mil. I expect Z to sign for 7.5 or more. 8mil would not surprise me.

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Does anyone actually see Hossa or Zetterberg not signing for a long term 7.45 deal if offered? It's not like thats a huge discount for either of them. The year after next year Lidstrom's contract expires, so it'll be interesting to see if he retires, signs for less, or keeps getting 7.45.

You're kidding right? Hossa or Z could easily get 9-10 mil on the open market. A 38 year old Sundin just got the equivalent of 10 mil. What makes you think that Z or Hossa in the prime of their careers couldn't get that much?

We are talking about franchise players in the prime of their careerss.

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Regardless of how you feel about Zetterberg vs Hossa. The fact is, Datsyuk, who has led the team in scoring for three years(Would have been four without the lockout), has two Stanley Cups and an equally nice trophy case, makes $6.7 million per season.

NOTHING, either Zetterberg or Hossa has done justifies making anything more than Datsyuk and its that simple. The cap is going down next season and we have an allstar team of players taking less than market value to play in Detroit.

Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin all make over $8.5 mill and quite frankly Zetterberg isn't that kind of player, never has been and never will be.

And yes, he won the Conn Smyth but it could have easily went to Crosby, Hossa or Datsyuk and no one would have questioned it, so he wasn't head and shoulders above the competition.

Everything ive read about Hossa gives me the impression that he'll play for less, less than $8.5

Exactly, on every account.

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When Datsyuk signed his contract the cap was much lower, therefore a smaller percent of the Wings salary. If he were to have signed that contract today it would be somewhere between 7-7.5, which is the amount I believe Z will sign for.

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Uh, yeah, a lot of people would have questioned it. The Conn Smythe should almost always go to a player on the Stanley Cup-winning team unless a player on the losing team just had an unreal postseason, a la Giguere in '02. Hossa and Crosby were both good, but neither were as good as Zetterberg. Same with Datsyuk.

You actually left out the one guy who actually had a legitimate argument, IMO, and that's Chris Osgood. I'm not saying that Zetterberg is as good as Crosby, Ovechkin, or Malkin, but let's not understate what he's done.

Zetterberg had one shift, "The shift" that baised everyone towards naming him the best player in the league last season. He played well on a five on three and probably saved a goal but that was one game and one shift. He was an aferthought in the first two rounds, while Datsyuk was consistantly the Red Wings best forward during the entire playoffs.

Its the same argument as in 2002, the Smyth could have gone to Fedorov or Yzerman without question.

07-08 Playoff stats

Hossa:

20 games, 12 goals, 14 assists, 26 points, +8, 12 PIM, 2 GWG

Zetterberg:

22 games, 13 goals, 14 assists, 27 points, +11, 16 PIM, 4 GWG

Datsyuk:

22 games, 10 goals, 13 assists, 23 points, +13, 6 PIM, 1 GWG

Franzen:

16 games, 13 goals, 5 assists, 18 points, +13, 14 PIM, 5 GWG

Crosby:

20 games, 6 goals, 21 assists, 27 points, +7, 12 PIM, 1 GWG

Osgood:

19 games, 14 wins, 3 shutouts, 30 GA, .930 SV%, 1.55 GA, 22 shots per game

Fleury:

20 games, 14 wins, 3 shutouts, 41 GA, .933 SV%, 1.97 GA, 31 shots per game

Going with purely statistics, Hossa and Crosby both outscored Zetterberg, even if they lost. Fleury faced more shots per game and had nearly similar statistics, while Osgood was playing for the best defensive team in the league.

I would then argue that the only thing that put Zetterberg ahead of the pack was his defensive play, which again, culminated during one game of the Stanley Cup finals. It was an obvious bias, especially when he didn't and will never win a Selke.

Saying that Zetterberg was head and shoulders above the rest is just wrong, any of the three (Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Franzen) could have won, along with Hossa or Crosby. Z didn't dominate in any fashion, he played well but the Conn Smyth is not indicative of overall ability.

Theres no reason that either Zetterberg or Hossa deserves more salary per season over Datsyuk or Lidstrom. Both players took pretty sizeable discounts to stay in Detroit and thats pretty much the only reason they have been successful post lockout.

If Datsyuk really wanted to cash out, he would have signed for eight million per season with Philly and Lidstrom would be making nine or ten million for the Rangers. Both players took a discount to continue winning, so I don't see how the so called "Future captain" can justify making $8.5 million a season, especially with the current economy and lowered salary cap.

If Hossa is willing to take less for the same time frame, than sign him, even if it means losing Zetterberg, its not like we don't have secondary scoring that wouldn't replace him.

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You're kidding right? Hossa or Z could easily get 9-10 mil on the open market. A 38 year old Sundin just got the equivalent of 10 mil. What makes you think that Z or Hossa in the prime of their careers couldn't get that much?

We are talking about franchise players in the prime of their careerss.

Lets talk about franchise players:

Datsyuk, Thornton, Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Lidstrom, Luongo, Kovalchuk, Nash, Gaborik all make less than ten million dollars per season. All of the players listest besides, Crosby, Lidstrom and Malkin make $6.7 mill or less per season.

Everyone, including Zetterberg, Holland and yourself knows that the salary cap is going to decline next season and probably the one after that too.

If Z pushes for anything more than Hossa's $7.4 million hes delusional. The only thing that may justify a $8.5 million dollar pay check is:

- Finishing a full season

- Leading the team in scoring

- Winning a Selke

- Winning a Hart, Pearson, Conn Smyth(Again)

If none of those things happens, give me just one example of why Zetterberg is more valuable than Datsyuk or even Hossa.

Edited by Homer4ver

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Yeah, six points in two games will help with that. :P

He dominated both games, what these points don't count?

Datsyuk was off to a slow start but in nearly every game, every shift he created some kind of scoring chance. Hes now leading the team in scoring, which is where everyone should expect him to be.

Hes on pace for 30 goals, 87 points and more than likely a Selke win or top three nomination.

Ive yet to see a good reason for anyone to justify Zetterberg making nearly two million more dollars per season over the teams leading scorer and reigning Selke/Byng winner, who was also second in team playoff scoring.

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First off, not that this makes a huge deal, but you got Z's +/- wrong. It was actually +16, which led all playoff performers, not +11.

Second of all:

Nashville series - 6 GP, 2 G, 2 A, 4 points, +2, 31 SOG, 1 GWG

Colorado series - 4 GP, 5 G, 4 A, 9 points, +6, 23 SOG, 1 GWG

Dallas series - 6 GP, 4 G, 4 A, 8 points, +7, 30 SOG, 1 GWG

Pittsburgh series - 6 GP, 2 G, 4 A, 6 points, +1, 32 SOG, 1 GWG

An afterthought the first two rounds? Really?

Third of all, Henrik Zetterberg will never win a Selke? Really? The dude was a finalist last year and finished second to his teammate. That's a bold prediction with not much to back it up.

"The shift" might have clinched the Conn Smythe for Zetterberg, but it didn't win it for him. I'm not going to argue that I think he's worth 8.5 million or whatever, but I feel like the people who are brushing him off as someone who isn't an elite player are clearly forgetting about what he did for us last year. Yeah, maybe he isn't in the league of a Crosby or Malkin, but he was as good as or better than both in the postseason last year.

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He dominated both games, what these points don't count?

Datsyuk was off to a slow start but in nearly every game, every shift he created some kind of scoring chance. Hes now leading the team in scoring, which is where everyone should expect him to be.

Hes on pace for 30 goals, 87 points and more than likely a Selke win or top three nomination.

Ive yet to see a good reason for anyone to justify Zetterberg making nearly two million more dollars per season over the teams leading scorer and reigning Selke/Byng winner, who was also second in team playoff scoring.

What? I wasn't brushing off Datsyuk's games. He was amazing in both. You're misinterpreting what I meant by that. It wasn't meant as a negative. I was just giving the reason he's leading the team in scoring now.

And as to your last point, inflation. That's the justification. And trust me, he won't be making $2 million more than him when all is said and done. I'm confident his cap number will be below or equal to Lidstrom's.

Edited by RWK23

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Ive yet to see a good reason for anyone to justify Zetterberg making nearly two million more dollars per season over the teams leading scorer and reigning Selke/Byng winner, who was also second in team playoff scoring.

Datsyuk's cap hit is more than $4m more than Hank's right now. It doesn't mean he is worth $4m more. Things change after a contract is signed. Your logic is flawed and your opinion is heavily biased.

Edited by Doggy

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Though a lot of people like to think so, how much money Zetterberg makes has nothing to do with the salary of anyone else. Zetterberg is not stupid. He knows how much he's worth on the open market.

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Hossa>Datsyuk>Zetterberg in my opinion...

They're all truly outstanding, but I think Hossa's got more pure scoring power along with the great D and incredibly hard work. I think Datsyuk really is a better all around player than Z and on top of that, he's outscored Z consistently (largely due to injuries, but that's worth considering too...especially considering the nature of back injuries) and I honestly don't think Z deserved the Conn Smythe anymore than Dats or Osgood. In fact, I said it then and I feel the same way now, I would've given it to Datsyuk. He's one of those guys like Lidstrom that does everything in such a smooth and efficient manner that you oftentimes don't even recognize just how great he is because it just seems so simple and natural.

That said, I could honestly see Hossa signing for Datsyuk money before Z would. Just a hunch, but I think it says something...I'm not trying to knock anyone, but I'm just not quite as nuts over Z as some. He's great, but I don't think he's worlds beyond Hossa or Datsyuk at all. Hossa would've won the Conn Smythe if he was on our squad hands down without a doubt. He would've done all the overall stuff Zetterberg does and would've scored more and more consistently. He's simply an outstanding, profoundly exceptional hockey player on so many levels.

Anyways...

Hank+Hossa at $7.25 million each long term '09...dreams can come true...

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First off, not that this makes a huge deal, but you got Z's +/- wrong. It was actually +16, which led all playoff performers, not +11.

Second of all:

Nashville series - 6 GP, 2 G, 2 A, 4 points, +2, 31 SOG, 1 GWG

Colorado series - 4 GP, 5 G, 4 A, 9 points, +6, 23 SOG, 1 GWG

Dallas series - 6 GP, 4 G, 4 A, 8 points, +7, 30 SOG, 1 GWG

Pittsburgh series - 6 GP, 2 G, 4 A, 6 points, +1, 32 SOG, 1 GWG

An afterthought the first two rounds? Really?

Third of all, Henrik Zetterberg will never win a Selke? Really? The dude was a finalist last year and finished second to his teammate. That's a bold prediction with not much to back it up.

"The shift" might have clinched the Conn Smythe for Zetterberg, but it didn't win it for him. I'm not going to argue that I think he's worth 8.5 million or whatever, but I feel like the people who are brushing him off as someone who isn't an elite player are clearly forgetting about what he did for us last year. Yeah, maybe he isn't in the league of a Crosby or Malkin, but he was as good as or better than both in the postseason last year.

My opinion has nothing to do with being biased, its the fact that Zetterberg has been outperformed by Datsyuk completely during his career. Datsyuk took less than hes worth to play here and hes done everything asked of him by the organization.

Zetterberg expecting 8.5 mill, even for one season is irrational and doesn't shine well on his "Next captain" moniker.

Last season, Hossa outperformed Zetterberg and this season hes doing the same.

Last season, Datsyuk outperformed Zetterberg during the regular season and 75% of the playoffs and hes making $6.7 million, along with tons of other "Franchise players" that signed after him.

Not one person has given me a solid reason as to why Z should make anything more than $7 mill per season and "Inflation" is meaningless. Its two seasons and we're going through the worst recession in twenty years, the cap is going to decrease for at least two seasons.

Using Zetterberg's current contract to justify overpaying him now is ridiculous. He took a lengthy, terrible deal, played better than expectations and was underpaid. It could have very easily went the other way and Z could have turned into a third liner making $3 mill per season.

Its the same thing the organization did with Kronwall and is doing with Filippula. Does that mean if Flip turned into an 80 point two-way center, the team should throw $2 million per season extra at him to make up for overpaying for his services?

And Mats Sundin is worth $10 million pro-rated because hes signing with a terrible team. Hes getting paid extra to deal with the fact that hes not going to win this season. If he signed with a contender he would have dropped his price significantly.

Its a simple argument, Z vs Hossa and its an obvious choice. Everyone has been waiting years for Datsyuk to get a legitment sniper on his line, all of the pipe dreams of Kovalchuk are finally here. Hossa is good for 40, 50 and maybe 60 goals with Dats. If that means sacrificing a second line center than so be it, we have another center to take his place in Flip, who happens to be earning a second liners salary.

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Last season, Hossa outperformed Zetterberg and this season hes doing the same.

I'm not getting into this whole debate but I just had to comment on this line. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a guy who had 29 goals and 66 points had a better season than a guy who had 43 goals and 92 points?

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Last season, Hossa outperformed Zetterberg and this season hes doing the same.

Last season, Datsyuk outperformed Zetterberg during the regular season and 75% of the playoffs and hes making $6.7 million, along with tons of other "Franchise players" that signed after him.

^ How did you come to that conclusion in either case?

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I feel like vomiting from reading so much anti-Zetterberg stuff on a Wings message board. Disgusting. A few weeks ago he was a god among men and now he's just your average almost-star?

Wow...

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Hossa>Datsyuk>Zetterberg in my opinion...

They're all truly outstanding, but I think Hossa's got more pure scoring power along with the great D and incredibly hard work. I think Datsyuk really is a better all around player than Z and on top of that, he's outscored Z consistently (largely due to injuries, but that's worth considering too...especially considering the nature of back injuries) and I honestly don't think Z deserved the Conn Smythe anymore than Dats or Osgood. In fact, I said it then and I feel the same way now, I would've given it to Datsyuk. He's one of those guys like Lidstrom that does everything in such a smooth and efficient manner that you oftentimes don't even recognize just how great he is because it just seems so simple and natural.

That said, I could honestly see Hossa signing for Datsyuk money before Z would. Just a hunch, but I think it says something...I'm not trying to knock anyone, but I'm just not quite as nuts over Z as some. He's great, but I don't think he's worlds beyond Hossa or Datsyuk at all. Hossa would've won the Conn Smythe if he was on our squad hands down without a doubt. He would've done all the overall stuff Zetterberg does and would've scored more and more consistently. He's simply an outstanding, profoundly exceptional hockey player on so many levels.

Anyways...

Hank+Hossa at $7.25 million each long term '09...dreams can come true...

:thumbup: I'm with you on this one. Hossa is just too good to let go. I wish we could keep both, but Hossa > Zetts.

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I feel like vomiting from reading so much anti-Zetterberg stuff on a Wings message board. Disgusting. A few weeks ago he was a god among men and now he's just your average almost-star?

Wow...

Completely agree. It doesn't help that Z is one of my favorite players, but I couldn't disagree more with some of the opinions around here regarding him. I'm also surprised by the amount of people who think that Hossa is better than Z and the amount of people that would rather have Hossa than Z if it came down to it despite everything Hank has done for this team in his 5+ seasons here.

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I'm not getting into this whole debate but I just had to comment on this line. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a guy who had 29 goals and 66 points had a better season than a guy who had 43 goals and 92 points?

66 points in 72 games, 60 of those games on arguably the worst team in the league. While outscoring Zetterberg in the playoffs.

Since the lockout:

Z:

274 points in 245 games, 1.12 PPG

129 goals

Hossa:

199 points in 186 games, .93 PPG

89 goals

Datsyuk:

305 points in 268 games, .89 PPG

107 goals

Neither Hossa or Z have played in more games or have even been as consistant as Datsyuk. While Zetterberg scores at a higher pace than either of the other two, he is still injured more frequently make him less valuable.

Datsyuk's salary sets the benchmark, if either Hossa or Z wants to make more than $6.7 million they actually have to outperform Datsyuk before its justified and since the lockout, that has yet to happen.

And this isn't about hating Zetterberg, im merely pointing out that the tired Zetterberg vs Datsyuk thing is over, its Z vs Hossa now and Hossa has been the superior player his entire career.

Loyalty goes out of the window when players start demanding a salary that they do not deserve. Since you know, Lidstrom is the best player in the world according to most of you, theres no reason for Z to make more than Nick, certainly not a million dollars more.

Hossa + Franzen > Zetterberg + Hudler

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Hank and Hossa are amazing players.

Hank is priority #1. The fact that Hossa signed with the Wings in the first place is :banana:

Just enjoy the high of having Hossa this year and deal with the hangover when the time comes.

P.S what an awesomely horrible decision to make. Wings fans are truly spoiled.

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Z:

274 points in 245 games, 1.12 PPG

129 goals

Hossa:

199 points in 186 games, .93 PPG

89 goals

Datsyuk:

305 points in 268 games, .89 PPG

107 goals

After looking at these numbers, I regret to inform you that nothing you post from here on is worth reading because you yourself aren't even reading it.

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66 points in 72 games, 60 of those games on arguably the worst team in the league. While outscoring Zetterberg in the playoffs.

Part of the reason they were one of the worst teams last year was because of his lack of production. And it doesn't matter if he played on a worse team. Z still outscored him by 26 points proving he had a better season. And he didn't outscore Z in the playoffs. He had one less point in 2 more games. There's no guarantee he would have gotten points in those 2 games.

Datsyuk's salary sets the benchmark, if either Hossa or Z wants to make more than $6.7 million they actually have to outperform Datsyuk before its justified and since the lockout, that has yet to happen.

As has been mentioned, he signed that deal 2 years ago. Salaries have gone up since then. Gomez, Campbell, and even Drury all make more than Datsyuk. There's no way Zetterberg makes less than them unless he signs a longer deal. Eric Staal just signed a contract that'll pay him $8.25 million a year and he hasn't been as good as Zetterberg either.

Another thing I'd like to add is that we wouldn't even have Hossa this year if it weren't for Z. It's because of his willingness to give up a year of unrestricted free agency at what is now a bargain price that we were able to acquire him.

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Relax everyone... no one should be suggesting that we let Zetterberg go. He will certainly get his extension. The only real concerns are the terms in his new contract. I say something in the neighborhood of Datsyuk and Lidstrom's current numbers is more than fair. If the terms are rich, hopefully KH can tack on some lean years at the end to help lower the cap number.

Realistically Z is not among the top-3 centermen in the league nor should he be paid as one. Some might say that Sundin's signing set the new bar. That was a desperation offer made by the Nucks hurting to sign anyone.

Honestly, Franzen's future contract worries me much more than Zetterberg's. Hossa is a pure afterthought.

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My opinion has nothing to do with being biased, its the fact that Zetterberg has been outperformed by Datsyuk completely during his career.

Not true. It is not a fact. It is an opinion. And said opinion is biased.

Datsyuk took less than hes worth to play here and hes done everything asked of him by the organization.

Not true. $6.7M/yr was a massive gamble for a guy that hadn't shown up in the playoffs for years. Good on Pavel for making good, but he did not take less than he was worth at the time he signed that contract.

Zetterberg expecting 8.5 mill, even for one season is irrational and doesn't shine well on his "Next captain" moniker.

Z "allegedly" asked for $8.25M/yr. These are negotiations. Hossa asked for significantly more than what he signed for as well.

Last season, Hossa outperformed Zetterberg and this season hes doing the same.

Not true on the former and I'll contend the latter as well. Hossa is way too loose with the puck coming out of our end. His turnovers have led to a few too many goals against and he's too sloppy with his D as well taking far too many penalties.

Last season, Datsyuk outperformed Zetterberg during the regular season and 75% of the playoffs

Not true on either account.

and hes making $6.7 million, along with tons of other "Franchise players" that signed after him.

Pavel signed his deal before he showed that he was capable of "franchise" level play.

Not one person has given me a solid reason as to why Z should make anything more than $7 mill per season

Might be because you've never been capable of recognizing a solid reason even if it is staring you in the face.

and "Inflation" is meaningless. Its two seasons and we're going through the worst recession in twenty years, the cap is going to decrease for at least two seasons.

I'm sure Kenny will take it into account when he looks at the market.

Using Zetterberg's current contract to justify overpaying him now is ridiculous. He took a lengthy, terrible deal, played better than expectations and was underpaid. It could have very easily went the other way and Z could have turned into a third liner making $3 mill per season.

I highly doubt Kenny will be trying to "make it up" to Z. But by the same account using Pavel's lengthy terrible deal that vastly underpays him as a benchmark is equally stupid. Things change.

Its the same thing the organization did with Kronwall and is doing with Filippula. Does that mean if Flip turned into an 80 point two-way center, the team should throw $2 million per season extra at him to make up for overpaying for his services?

No, and the team won't do so with Z either.

And Mats Sundin is worth $10 million pro-rated because hes signing with a terrible team. Hes getting paid extra to deal with the fact that hes not going to win this season. If he signed with a contender he would have dropped his price significantly.

Doubtful. On the open market Z would get ridiculous offers. You know it as well as everyone else does.

Its a simple argument, Z vs Hossa and its an obvious choice. Everyone has been waiting years for Datsyuk to get a legitment sniper on his line, all of the pipe dreams of Kovalchuk are finally here. Hossa is good for 40, 50 and maybe 60 goals with Dats.

Marian better get on his horse if he wants to score 50-60+. At his current pace he might hit what Z got last season.

If that means sacrificing a second line center than so be it,

Laughable. Wait, scratch that. Not funny at all. Sad would be a better word.

we have another center to take his place in Flip, who happens to be earning a second liners salary.

Fil is neither capable of taking over for Z, nor is he earning a 2nd liners' salary. He is being paid one (by cap hit anyway), but not yet earning it.

In your dozens of usernames you've never once managed to use reason. You're an irrational one-trick pony and that's a dead giveaway every single time.

Til we meet again...

:banned:

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