NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Hossa will take datsyuk money to stay with the team, not sure if Z will. That's a bold statement, especially given the season at hand. IMO, whether the Wings win or lose the Cup this year, Hossa's gone...especially if Z is priority one and the cap room just isn't there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Hossa will take datsyuk money to stay with the team, not sure if Z will. Where is there any proof of that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Z last season: 75 games, 43 goals, 93 points, +30 Z this season(Projected): 80 games, 30 goals, 75 points He was third place last season in Selke voting, behind Madden and Datsyuk. Datsyuk won by a large margain. This season, Mike Richards is having a Datsyuk like season. So its safe to assume, with a twenty point drop in production that Z won't be considered. The Selke is for DEFENSE. I realize the winner usually makes significant contributions on the offensive end, but I'm pretty sure a point-per-game average, regardless of the dropoff, will still keep him in the running. And you do realize more than 3 people are considered, right? Edited January 22, 2009 by lets go pavel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Where is there any proof of that? Oh, there isn't any, that's just my prediction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Why don't people ever stop and realize that hockey players are normal people too. Of course its taking a long time. How would you feel if you were basically contracting yourself to stay in one place, make one salary, be with one company, and essentially create the financial base for yourself and your family for the next 10, 20, 40, or even 60 years? Hank has to think about Emma, their future, having kids, and what hes going to be doing when hes around 40 years old and hes career will likely be over. Hank in general seems like a sensitive, pensive guy, family kind of guy. From what we've seen of him throughout his time with the Wings, hes a very down to earth, practical guy. Hes not going to impulsively sign whatevers put in front of him. My guess is, every legitimate offer thats fielded his way by Holland and co. he takes his time to mull over. I doubt hes being difficult, he just wants to be sure. And can you blame him? I'd take all the time in the world to make sure I felt right about a decision like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nogood 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 The Red Wings can still have plenty of depth without losing both Z and Hossa. You want to keep a handful of third line, maybe borderline second line players (besides Franzen) and lose two guys that are two of the most complete forwards in the league? Leino hasn't played one game in the NHL and you are willing to let Z and/or Hossa leave because Leino can somehow replace that production? The Red Wings can, should and will keep Z and still have a realistic chance of keeping Franzen and Hudler as well. Zetterberg isn't just another "good" two-way player. He is one of the elite forwards in the NHL with an incredible work ethic and real appreciation of the Red Wings organization. Not to mention, Z is a proven playoff performer. How would the Red Wings be a one line team with re-signing Z? Even at the worst, let's say the Red Wings lose Hossa and Sammy or Hudler up front next summer. I would rather have Hudler than Filppula or Sammy, but if Holland can keep Z, Franzen and one of Sammy or Hudler, the Red Wings are in great shape still. We're still looking at the same team that just won a championship, having to replace a solid depth player with the likes of Helm, Abdelkader or Leino. Other teams in the league would kill for that kind of depth at forward. Comparing the Red Wings to the Lightning is laughable. Do you understand how tight the cap is going to be next season? Hossa will be gone, -$7.45 mill Zetterberg is in for a $4.5 mill + increase Hudler will more than likely get $3 million if not more Kopecky probably won't be resigned, -$500,000 Samuelsson will get $2.5 mill Franzen will get a hefty contract Chelios won't be resigned, hopefully, -$750,000 Conklin, if kept, will recieve a bigger contract. Howard will be gone, If the cap stays the same and doesn't decrease, which it won't, we currently have $400,000 in cap space. In order to keep Z and depth, we don't have enough cap space. Assuming that Franzen gets $5 million per year, Conklin will get $2 mill per season along with the other raises ive shown above, you're looking at least $10 million added to our lineup. Which would put us millions, upon milions over the cap. Lose Z and its much, much more manageable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Oh, there isn't any, that's just my prediction. That's helpful, thanks Nostradamus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nogood 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 The Selke is for DEFENSE. I realize the winner usually makes significant contributions on the offensive end, but I'm pretty sure a point-per-game average, regardless of the dropoff, will still keep him in the running. And you do realize more than 3 people are considered, right? You can't win the trophy unless you're a top three finalist. Datsyuk and Richards will be there. They're both going to score 90 points atleast and are playing amazing defense. Like I said, Madden finished second in voting last season. Hes more than likely to be in the running than Z. And yes, offensive production does have something to do with it. Players like Datsyuk, Richards and Zetterberg are only considered for the Selke because while their defensive play is great, they score nearly 100 points. If you're going on purely the best shutdown forwards in the game, a guy like Pahlsson would probably win. Z can't take that much of a hit in production and still stay in the running, it won't happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Do you understand how tight the cap is going to be next season? Hossa will be gone, -$7.45 mill Zetterberg is in for a $4.5 mill + increase Hudler will more than likely get $3 million if not more Kopecky probably won't be resigned, -$500,000 Samuelsson will get $2.5 mill Franzen will get a hefty contract Chelios won't be resigned, hopefully, -$750,000 Conklin, if kept, will recieve a bigger contract. Howard will be gone, If the cap stays the same and doesn't decrease, which it won't, we currently have $400,000 in cap space. In order to keep Z and depth, we don't have enough cap space. Assuming that Franzen gets $5 million per year, Conklin will get $2 mill per season along with the other raises ive shown above, you're looking at least $10 million added to our lineup. Which would put us millions, upon milions over the cap. Lose Z and its much, much more manageable. Franzen won't get $5 million per year and if Conklin commands $2 per, the Wings will let him walk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nogood 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Franzen won't get $5 million per year and if Conklin commands $2 per, the Wings will let him walk. Malone got 7 years, 32 million. Franzen will get more than that but the point is moot. Assuming that both players don't resign with the Wings, that still means that the team is $7+ million over the cap, assuming that Larsson and Helm are the replacements, than its more like $8. We can't have Z, Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Rafalski all making over $6 million, its insane in the cap world. I mean, it would help if we had depth in Grand Rapids at forward but outside of Leino, there aren't any top six forwards that could step in and play right away. Helm is great but hes redundant on this team with the likes of Draper and Flip. If we add another player making seven million, this team will lose its depth completely. Hudler, Sammy, Conklin, Franzen and Z are all in for significant raises. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zion 93 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 The problem is that, right now, it is hard to justify Zetterberg's salary when comparing him to Pavel Datsyuk. Datsyuk looks like a steal at 6.7 million right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nogood 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Draper won it scoring only 40 points in 2003-2004. You have no reading ability. "Lets go pavel" made it seem that somehow Zetterberg would win via write in or some other means. The top three vote getters for each award are the only three that can win it. And Draper won it when the game was different and the criteria for the award was different. Z won't be in the running for the Selke because: Datsyuk Richards Madden Kesler Are all ahead of him this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 The problem is that, right now, it is hard to justify Zetterberg's salary when comparing him to Pavel Datsyuk. Datsyuk looks like a steal at 6.7 million right now. Different circumstances completely. Z shouldn't be compared to Pavel in terms of a contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gutierrez 7 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 I do not like a 10 yer deal...I would give him 6 years @ 7.5 a year and thats it. This Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 You can't win the trophy unless you're a top three finalist. Datsyuk and Richards will be there. They're both going to score 90 points atleast and are playing amazing defense. Like I said, Madden finished second in voting last season. Hes more than likely to be in the running than Z. And yes, offensive production does have something to do with it. Players like Datsyuk, Richards and Zetterberg are only considered for the Selke because while their defensive play is great, they score nearly 100 points. If you're going on purely the best shutdown forwards in the game, a guy like Pahlsson would probably win. Z can't take that much of a hit in production and still stay in the running, it won't happen. You can't win the trophy unless you get the most votes. The Top 3 finalists are just the top 3 vote-getters. Z has as much of a chance this year as last year, and the slight offensive drop-off that you're attributing to not playing with Datsyuk certainly isn't going to cost him that many votes. I'm not saying he will win, and he may not be a finalist either, but you're acting as if he stands no chance now that he's no longer playing with Datsyuk, and that's ridiculous. Even having an off year he's one of the top 5 two-way forwards in the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Z last season: 75 games, 43 goals, 93 points, +30 Z this season(Projected): 80 games, 30 goals, 75 points He was third place last season in Selke voting, behind Madden and Datsyuk. Datsyuk won by a large margain. This season, Mike Richards is having a Datsyuk like season. So its safe to assume, with a twenty point drop in production that Z won't be considered. That would make me very happy. I am staying out of this pissing war you have going on because in the end none of this will matter and after Z re-signs this won't even have mattered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 You can't win the trophy unless you're a top three finalist. Datsyuk and Richards will be there. They're both going to score 90 points atleast and are playing amazing defense. Like I said, Madden finished second in voting last season. Hes more than likely to be in the running than Z. And yes, offensive production does have something to do with it. Players like Datsyuk, Richards and Zetterberg are only considered for the Selke because while their defensive play is great, they score nearly 100 points. If you're going on purely the best shutdown forwards in the game, a guy like Pahlsson would probably win. Z can't take that much of a hit in production and still stay in the running, it won't happen. Draper won it scoring only 40 points in 2003-2004. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nogood 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Different circumstances completely. Z shouldn't be compared to Pavel in terms of a contract. No, instead it should be looked at in terms of value to the team... Its basically: Franzen, Hudler, Sammy vs Z We won the cup with all four of them, I prefer having three cup winners in the lineup over one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 That's helpful, thanks Nostradamus. Not trying to be, just voicing my opinion. Purpose of site: served. It just seems that Hossa has wanted to be a wing badly for years. Not that Z doesn't want to be but I think Hossa wants it more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nogood 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 You can't win the trophy unless you get the most votes. The Top 3 finalists are just the top 3 vote-getters. Z has as much of a chance this year as last year, and the slight offensive drop-off that you're attributing to not playing with Datsyuk certainly isn't going to cost him that many votes. I'm not saying he will win, and he may not be a finalist either, but you're acting as if he stands no chance now that he's no longer playing with Datsyuk, and that's ridiculous. Even having an off year he's one of the top 5 two-way forwards in the game. Im acting like he doesn't have a chance because he doesn't.. Last season Mike Richards wasn't nearly playing as well. Now hes on pace to have the same season as Z had last year, except he hits more, plays more on the PK and scores more short handed. Datsyuk speaks for himself And Madden and Kesler are guys that get nominated because some still like to nominate purely defensive forwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 No, instead it should be looked at in terms of value to the team... Its basically: Franzen, Hudler, Sammy vs Z We won the cup with all four of them, I prefer having three cup winners in the lineup over one. No, it's not really though. The Red Wings can still realistically sign Z, Franzen and keep one of Hudler or Sammy. The numbers you proposed earlier are rather high on all ends. All four won the cup certainly, but one of them was the MVP in that run. I don't understand where you get that signing Z means losing everyone else. It's very likely that Holland will be successful in retaining as many pieces of this team as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) You have no reading ability. "Lets go pavel" made it seem that somehow Zetterberg would win via write in or some other means. The top three vote getters for each award are the only three that can win it. And Draper won it when the game was different and the criteria for the award was different. Z won't be in the running for the Selke because: Datsyuk Richards Madden Kesler Are all ahead of him this season. I didn't say anything about a "write in", who has reading problems? The only person that can win is the TOP VOTE GETTER. Obviously the winner has to be in the top 3 because he's the top 1, but they haven't started voting yet, noone is ahead of anybody. Just because you think those 4 are having more Selke-worthy seasons doesn't mean the writers who do vote will agree with you. That seems to be the problem with most of what you're saying ... you state your thoughts as indisputable facts. And you do realize the season is only half over? Edited January 22, 2009 by lets go pavel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 You have no reading ability. "Lets go pavel" made it seem that somehow Zetterberg would win via write in or some other means. The top three vote getters for each award are the only three that can win it. And Draper won it when the game was different and the criteria for the award was different. Z won't be in the running for the Selke because: Datsyuk Richards Madden Kesler Are all ahead of him this season. See "Lets Go Pavels" latest post. I can read just fine....you just don't have your facts straight about the criteria to win the award. I'm done with you. This has gone nowhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I'm sorry but 10 years is too much....for anyone. No one knows what his status will be in 5 years or so, whether he'll still be a top goal producer or not. In fact, his stats have dropped considerably this year. What confuses even more is that Holland usually always avoids these long term contracts, so I'm surprised he's actually considering 10 years. As I said before, I love Zetterberg, but I really don't wanna see anything over 5 years.....6 years max. Maybe 5 years, 7 mil a year.....I think thats the fairest deal. Somehow I dont think it will happen. Edited January 22, 2009 by ShanahanMan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nogood 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 No, it's not really though. The Red Wings can still realistically sign Z, Franzen and keep one of Hudler or Sammy. The numbers you proposed earlier are rather high on all ends. All four won the cup certainly, but one of them was the MVP in that run. I don't understand where you get that signing Z means losing everyone else. It's very likely that Holland will be successful in retaining as many pieces of this team as possible. The numbers I proposed earlier: Hudler @ $3 million Sammy @ $2.5 Franzen @ $5 Those aren't high, Hudler is on pace for 30 goals and 60 + points and Franzen has the wave of the playoff hype going for him. Pittsburgh fans are clambering to have a shot at Franzen. You're assuming that everyone in the lineup will take a discount and its just not going to happen. Some guys wan't more playing time, some want more money, they're all not amazing guys who will do anything to help the team, they have families and their own personal interests. Why is it so hard to understand? If we can give meager increases to Hudler, Franzen and Sammy at the cost of Z, its not the end of the world and the team maintains its depth. We'll be in a good position for 2010 when the cap will drop even more and we'll be losing guys like Draper and Maltby. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
