What happens next..?

[BlueMonk 102]

What happens next is the Wings start playing more games at home. I'm not happy about the ridiculous stretch of home/away back-to-backs they play in March, but they still have 9 of 14 at JLA after having played 27 of their 49 games on the road. That, along with getting some injured players back, should help.

[FLWINGSFAN4013 5]

lidstrom being the captain needs to light a fire under the teams asses

[WingNut 25 5]

Goaltending and defense have been the issue. It isn't just the Dmen themselves though. The forwards have not played well and our penalty kill is brutal.

[gcom007 1,465]

The problem starts and ends with defense.

I think it's fairly clear that the root of the problem doesn't exactly lie with the goalies. Both are about as good as the defense, which is to be expected with a sub-million dollar goalie and to some extent with Osgood. While Osgood has plenty of room to improve to live up to his potential, it doesn't change the fact that a much more pressing and concerning issue is just how sloppy the defense is right now. Not just among the defensemen, but team defense. It's nearly non-existent. Conklin's pulled shutouts lately and the defense has looked good mostly against the bottom of the barrel teams but when they've been challenged at all, the defense looks terrible and Osgood or Conklin surrender 3/4/5 goals a game easy.

Once again, emphatically, there are only a few "stand on your head" goalies in the world that can and have done it year in year out. Very, very few. They get paid at least $8 million a season to carry teams with junk defense corps.

We have one of the best defensive groups in the league on paper and probably the best collection of defensive-minded forwards in the game.

We should not need a "stand on your head" goalie. There is no reason for it with the guys we have.

And even so, Osgood has won 2 Cups on his own watch and is capable of playing at a far higher level than he's paid to play at. Conklin has come in and played admirably and indeed has outplayed Osgood so far this year. But you can't expect Conklin, a career backup getting paid less than a million, to stop everything. You cannot expect Osgood to stop everything despite how much people love to hate him and how much better he could play.

The root issue here is that they shouldn't have to. Before the puck gets to the net, there's 5 guys on the ice that have a job to do too and they've done an awful job of it this year. They've shown little to no improvement over the course of the season. At best they've had flashes of brilliance soon to be followed by a slew of sloppy games. The mental toughness isn't there. The awareness is down. They give the puck away in their zone more times in one game this year than they did last year in ten. It's ridiculous.

Everyone would love the goalies to stop more, but someone's gotta give them some help. They're the last stop on the line so they take more heat, but blaming them doesn't make it right let alone logical. That's simply not the case this year. Even in Osgood's weaker games where he absolutely has to shoulder a good deal of blame, he can't shoulder it alone as in every case I can remember, the defense has looked just as bad if not significantly worse.

In plenty of other games, both goalies have played a "solid enough game to give a team a chance to win" and the defense has utterly dropped the ball on them.

It's not even worth discussing the forwards. We're leading the league with 179 goals. Boston and San Jose are the only teams close with 175 and 165 respectively. The only reason we've won as much as we have this year is because they've been very productive. Our stars are scoring like stars most nights. Datsyuks among the top in the league in points. We've added Hossa. Z can do better but has hardly been bad. Franzen's played well. Hudlers come on. Samuelson's had a good year. You'd expect Cleary to be better but eh, it's a wash considering what other guys are doing. Quite simply, scoring is not our problem.

The biggest problem with this team is the same one that's been there since the first game of the season: we're just playing sloppy hockey in our own end. If it tightens up for the rest of the season in the next game, Osgoods stats will improve dramatically and Conklin will be among the top in the league in stats. But until then, we're just going to keep poking along. This is hardly as simple as "just play Conklin" and thankfully most people realize that it's absurd to have to score 6 goals to win. The defense needs to clean their act up. Bottom line. If that happens, it won't matter who's in net. We'll win. They've both capable.

Again, the problem starts and ends with defense.

Edited January 31, 2009 by gcom007

[Dano33 41]

You do realize we don't need a President's Trophy to win the Cup, right? Chicago is way behind us, even with this slump, so 4th seed isn't really going to happen anytime soon.

When was the last time we played the same 18 skaters two games in a row?

So, I asked because we have had slumps FAR WORSE THAN THIS and STILL WON THE CUP. We've won the Cup from the 3 seed before. And the 2 seed. And the 1seed.

Things ain't perfect, but to act like the season is ruined and the team should be imploded is just ridiculous.

Good point. In '97 we only had 38 wins in the regular season, and won the cup. Now, obviously this is a different team, but by no means are we going to be out of it even if we do fall to 4th.

[Guest mindfly]

Calgary is only 5pts behind with 1 less game played... 3rd place comin' up?

[gcom007 1,465]

You do realize we don't need a President's Trophy to win the Cup, right? Chicago is way behind us, even with this slump, so 4th seed isn't really going to happen anytime soon.

When was the last time we played the same 18 skaters two games in a row?

So, I asked because we have had slumps FAR WORSE THAN THIS and STILL WON THE CUP. We've won the Cup from the 3 seed before. And the 2 seed. And the 1seed.

Things ain't perfect, but to act like the season is ruined and the team should be imploded is just ridiculous.

I agree in many ways. I could care less about the Presidents Trophy or even winning our division. It's of little importance to me at all. What's troubling to me about things at this point is that much of the problem is a result of horrid, stupid mental mistakes.

Fact: If it were any other team than Detroit with a mighty offense to be reckoned with, we'd be screwed and making the playoffs would be a concern. Take away a guy like Hossa and his 24 goals and you've got a huge dent in our scoring. Hudler has as many goals (17) as Zetterberg. Franzen has been a huge help the whole year when he's been in the lineup as opposed to just the tail end of last season. We've got a lot of scoring power. We're tops in goals in the league with 179. The league average is around 140. How many more games would we have lost if we didn't have that firepower? A lot.

If it wasn't for the fact that many of these defensive problems ought to be fairly simple to correct, it wouldn't be worrisome, but it's been about 50 games now and there's still just an abundance of sloppy plays being made. I am not panicking and I do indeed have faith, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that now is the time to start working these things out of the game so we don't go into the playoffs with a bevy of bad habits. There's simply no excuse for it at any point on a team like this.

[Gutierrez 7]

While it is a bit disturbing that we have lost 5 in a row, our season is by no means over. Even if we do fall to 3rd, so what. I am confident that this team, come playoff time, will step it up. It seems that our boys are bored playing in these regular season games. After winning the cup and dominating everyone they played, it's like they have nothing else to prove/accomplish. Even homer said in an interview earlier in the season that they play better when they are behind. Also keep in mind a lot of teams are gunning for us and playing their best when we play.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

You do realize we don't need a President's Trophy to win the Cup, right? Chicago is way behind us, even with this slump, so 4th seed isn't really going to happen anytime soon.

When was the last time we played the same 18 skaters two games in a row?

So, I asked because we have had slumps FAR WORSE THAN THIS and STILL WON THE CUP. We've won the Cup from the 3 seed before. And the 2 seed. And the 1seed.

Things ain't perfect, but to act like the season is ruined and the team should be imploded is just ridiculous.

It has nothing to do with the seed number - it has everything to do with the fact that there are a LOT of teams in the league right now that have been playing comparable hockey to thing Wings since day one. Back when Babcock said the Wings weren't among the elite at the beginning of the season, that was easy to accept, because we still had a long ways to go. Now nearly 2/3rds of the way through the season, we haven't separated ourselves from the pack as much as people like to think.

What that boils down to is a lot harder competition in the playoffs, and our stats across the board indicate that.

[Louisville 112]

Defense, defense, defense...

[thedisappearer 291]

It has nothing to do with the seed number - it has everything to do with the fact that there are a LOT of teams in the league right now that have been playing comparable hockey to thing Wings since day one. Back when Babcock said the Wings weren't among the elite at the beginning of the season, that was easy to accept, because we still had a long ways to go. Now nearly 2/3rds of the way through the season, we haven't separated ourselves from the pack as much as people like to think.

What that boils down to is a lot harder competition in the playoffs, and our stats across the board indicate that.

You realize seeding is determined by how you played in the regular season, right? So, we've won the Cup when we were only playing the third best hockey in our conference. CONFERENCE.

We don't need to separate ourselves from anything. We just need to get back to playing Red Wings hockey. Stop worrying about how we stack up against the others and worry about how *WE* are doing. Chances are, if we were doing the exact same as we are right now, but had a 8 point Prez Trophy lead, you'd be relatively quiet. Instead, you are another few losses away from ZOMG WORST TEAM EVER!!!!

[BlameGame 0]

The blame falls solely on the shoulders of Nick Lidstrom. 90% of the fan base makes the case for the guy being the "Best player in the world" or they're pissed when he doesn't win a Hart but his play isn't any different from last year and this. Hes just being exposed for what he is, a good defender with great offensive abilities. Lidstrom ISN'T the best player in the league or this team for this matter. And its argueable if hes even the best defensive defenseman on this team (Lilja).

At this point Datsyuk seems to be the only one that can't be blamed, hes pulling his weight.

[VM1138 1,921]

Hate to say it guys, but we need more grit. It may just be the Cup hangover, but we have no energy. I am not advocating an enforcer so much as it has become clear to me now we need a repeat of last year. Sign a big defensively solid guy, and completely rebuild the checking line.

That, to me, appears to be the only way to win the Cup this year. Our offense is fine and our goaltending is servicable, if not great with Conklin in net, I think it's painfully obvious defense is our weak spot. While we may have had the best in the world last year, we don't this year. The only ones that should have roster spots locked in should be Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart and Kronner.

Out of curiosity, are there any big, physical defensemen who are excellent PKers and defensively minded that come cheap?

Maybe even two signings on the back end. I'd also like to get some grit at forward, but something tells me that Drapes, Maltby, Helm, etc will all be back at the tops of their defensive games come playoffs.

[BlameGame 0]

Trade Rafalski for Kubina... then trade Kronwall for Bouwmeester at the deadline. Problem solved.

[NEpats1028 1]

I think we need to use GR more than we have in the past. Last week was a start with Downey, Leino and Abs, but seriously...Everybody keeps saying how great depth we have in this organization. WELL LETS FREAKING SEE IT!!!

Pressure the guys like Kronwall and Lebda by bringing up Ericcson and others. Pressure Ozzie and Conks by bringing up Howard! I wouldn't mind seeing Ritola up here soon to put pressure on somebody else..

Make the current roster feel like it's not a right, but a privlege to play in the NHL.

[NEpats1028 1]

Trade Rafalski for Kubina... then trade Kronwall for Bouwmeester at the deadline. Problem solved.

1. Rafi has a no-trade clause

2. FLA wouldn't give up JB for an injury-prone, playing like s*** defensemen..

nice dream though!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

You realize seeding is determined by how you played in the regular season, right? So, we've won the Cup when we were only playing the third best hockey in our conference. CONFERENCE.

We don't need to separate ourselves from anything. We just need to get back to playing Red Wings hockey. Stop worrying about how we stack up against the others and worry about how *WE* are doing. Chances are, if we were doing the exact same as we are right now, but had a 8 point Prez Trophy lead, you'd be relatively quiet. Instead, you are another few losses away from ZOMG WORST TEAM EVER!!!!

And again, you're not paying attention to what I'm saying about seeding and numbering - which is to say, I'm not talking about it as an indicator. I'm using it as an illustration.

The talk used to put everyone's mind at ease all season has been "well, the Red Wings are still the 3rd best team in the league." What I'm saying is, thats not true. If we're 50 games into the season, and the Red Wings are having their first real slump that puts them back into 4th, 5th, or 6th position in the league, thats no different from a team that had a big slump in the first 20 games, and has since been clipping along at a great pace.

In short, my point is to illustrate that while other teams may continue to IMPROVE, the Red Wings haven't. What bothers me about the past 5 games have not been the losses. What disturbs me about the past 5 games is that we HAVEN'T looked different, with the exception of our offense. Which, again, speaks to what many people have been saying all season - our offense has been able to take the heat off our goaltending and defense. If our offense is hot, and can score at will, who cares if we get 3,4, even 5 goals scored against? We can still win. What this slide has shown us is not anything new about our work ethic, our defense, or our goaltending. The only thing this slide has shown is that we are a one trick pony. Without our offense putting up 3+ goals again, we're going to have a tough time pulling out the victories. Can you really disagree with that? Thats one case where the performance AND the stats back up the logic.

...And your point about the President's Trophy is irrelevant. Because if you're winning the President's trophy, then yeah, typically that means you're better than the competition, which is what I care about. If this where a league where EVERY team relied on high scoring efforts to win games, like they used to back in the day, then I wouldn't care. Fact of the matter is, there are about 10 teams out there right now who may not have the offense that we have, but their goaltending is much stronger. They score fewer goals, but they let in fewer goals too. Detroit is no better than those teams right now - and, for the most part, they haven't been all season. That kind of play puts them in a group of about 10 teams, as opposed to the few teams in the NHL right now that have great offense, great defense, and good goaltending.

[BlameGame 0]

I think we need to use GR more than we have in the past. Last week was a start with Downey, Leino and Abs, but seriously...Everybody keeps saying how great depth we have in this organization. WELL LETS FREAKING SEE IT!!!

Pressure the guys like Kronwall and Lebda by bringing up Ericcson and others. Pressure Ozzie and Conks by bringing up Howard! I wouldn't mind seeing Ritola up here soon to put pressure on somebody else..

Make the current roster feel like it's not a right, but a privlege to play in the NHL.

Kronwall, Draper, Maltby, and Osgood will never be made to feel "pressure".

Kronwall has a five year deal and the other three have four cups a piece, they will be kept around until they're Chelios' age on principle. Which is the main problem with this team, its too loyal.

[chrisdetroit 189]

What happens next?

The same thing that always happens -- the fans ***** and moan, talk about trading half of the roster, etc.

Then the Wings start winning again.

Perfect response. You hit the nail right on the head.

[NEpats1028 1]

Posted this on a different board but thought it needs to be done....

Broom Kopecky and Maltby and put Abdelkader on the left and Downey on the right! WHAM! what a checking line! ha

and if Draper's numbers keep falling, then bring up Helm. I know this wouldnt be possible without salary cap issues but it would be interesting to see how Abdelkader - Helm - Downey play...

[BlameGame 0]

1. Rafi has a no-trade clause

2. FLA wouldn't give up JB for an injury-prone, playing like s*** defensemen..

nice dream though!

Its not much of a dream, a no trade clause doesn't mean a player can't be traded. A no movement clause does. If Raffy doesn't want to be moved, he can be waved. If he doesn't report to Grand Rapids he would be considered officially suspended and his cap space could be used for another player.

Who said anything about Kronwall for Bouwmeester straight up? Kronwall is still a bargain and signed long term. Kronwall for a couples months of Bouwmeester and the opportunity to sign him before hes a UFA is a fair price.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

The blame falls solely on the shoulders of Nick Lidstrom. 90% of the fan base makes the case for the guy being the "Best player in the world" or they're pissed when he doesn't win a Hart but his play isn't any different from last year and this. Hes just being exposed for what he is, a good defender with great offensive abilities. Lidstrom ISN'T the best player in the league or this team for this matter. And its argueable if hes even the best defensive defenseman on this team (Lilja).

At this point Datsyuk seems to be the only one that can't be blamed, hes pulling his weight.

I agree that Lilja *might* be the best defensive defenseman on the team this season, including Lidstrom. But you're dead wrong if you think that Lidstrom isn't playing any different than he has in years past. His skating is slower, his shots aren't as strong or as accurate, and his decision making isn't as quick. The fact that those skills have fallen by the way side speaks to age, not being overrated. You can't call yourself a knowledgeable fan of hockey - or the Red Wings for that matter - if you simply think Lidstrom is being "exposed." Everyone who knows the game of hockey can see hes one of the smartest players ever to play the game, and that the things that make him so great are the things that you don't even notice. In years past, where everyone else would make a mistake, Lidstrom would make the right decision. And guess what? People don't take notice when you do the right thing, only when you do the wrong. And on top of that, everyone whos watched Nick Lidstrom over the years knows that this year Nick Lidstrom hasn't been Nick Lidstrom, just by nature of watching him play year after year, you begin to have certain expectations for Lidstrom, which is to say, zero mistakes on a game-by-game basis. This year he hasn't been that - yes I agree - but it has nothing to do with being exposed.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

A lot of this team went on a much worse streak last February. Made the playoffs without any difficulty.

In all likelihood, the Wings are going to have little/no trouble making the playoffs this year despite this losing streak.

Everybody goes through snags, they eventually end for every team as well. Fortunately, the Wings are good enough to have it end probably sooner than later. Even if it doesn't immediately end, they are still making the playoffs.

[BlameGame 0]

I agree that Lilja *might* be the best defensive defenseman on the team this season, including Lidstrom. But you're dead wrong if you think that Lidstrom isn't playing any different than he has in years past. His skating is slower, his shots aren't as strong or as accurate, and his decision making isn't as quick. The fact that those skills have fallen by the way side speaks to age, not being overrated. You can't call yourself a knowledgeable fan of hockey - or the Red Wings for that matter - if you simply think Lidstrom is being "exposed." Everyone who knows the game of hockey can see hes one of the smartest players ever to play the game, and that the things that make him so great are the things that you don't even notice. In years past, where everyone else would make a mistake, Lidstrom would make the right decision. And guess what? People don't take notice when you do the right thing, only when you do the wrong. And on top of that, everyone whos watched Nick Lidstrom over the years knows that this year Nick Lidstrom hasn't been Nick Lidstrom, just by nature of watching him play year after year, you begin to have certain expectations for Lidstrom, which is to say, zero mistakes on a game-by-game basis. This year he hasn't been that - yes I agree - but it has nothing to do with being exposed.

Hes been medicore since game 1 of the season. He didn't "Age" between the cup/norris win and than or now. The visor isn't effecting his play this much either. Both are just excuses. Replace Lidstrom with Pronger/Bouwmeester and imagine how well this team would be doing.

[Red Crazy 201]

Hard to say what happens next. I just can't see Ken Holland going past the deadline with 7 UFA's. But he has surprised me before!