Who signs 1st?

[LeftWinger 5,153]

if Hossa already said he'd sign here for less, then Franzen should follow suit. But I know this is his one chance to make huge money somewhere if not here, but I cannot see Holland giving him $4M. If it came down to him and Hudler siging for the exact amount, and we could only fit one of them, we'd have to go with Franzen. Hudler has fallen off the face of the score sheet, ever since he scored his 20th. This is rough. Dammit! Why did Hossa have to work out so well here!?!?! You cannot let Hossa leave, especially if he already wants to take (a lot) less to stay here, but I'd hate to lose Fanzen, Hudler and possibly Filpulla! Hudler I can live without, but all three would upset the chemistry of this team. Man who is expendable? We know we are losng Chelios, but what happens when you have to bring Ericsson up? He has to be here, has no choice. Who loses out? Lilja? Lebda? When is Helm gonna get his spot here? Maybe we have to get Maltby to retire early? But I doubt it! Is Leino gonna be able to come up next season? Damn! What if Conklin steps in for Osgood and wins us our Cup? What do you do then? He cannot get a raise.

whatever! We have to sign Hossa, we have to sign Franzen, Kopecky and Leino. I know we've talked about trading Filpulla, but he has done a lot better and looks good on the second line with Hossa. Damn you Bettman! Damn you to hell!

[Datsyerberger 279]

Damn you Bettman! Damn you to hell!

Now there's a statement which we should all agree with

[Wombat 26]

All the talk about shot blocking and how it correlates with winning... it doesn't!

Of the 11 metrics this writer compared with Point %, shot blocking had the lowest correlation (using last season's data). also, if you follow the covariance table on that webpage, shot blocking isn't even moderately correlated with any of the other stats. Shot blocking does not improve the PK or keep goals against down, among others.

The writer attributes this to many of the causes mentioned by HofH and I agree with both. As it pertains to Lilja... he needs to do what he can best do, and if that means blocking shots, he should do it. Not every player can be Lidstrom and it's really unfair to compare all but a handful of defensemen in the league to him. What I like about Lilja is that he fills a role on the team that no other player does - solid defensively, good PKer, good shot blocker, can be physical. THAT is what makes a great team... not 20 Lidstrom clones but 20 guys that all fill a nice role on the team and make one, cohesive TEAM.

[dallas27 7]

Step 1: Sign Hossa @ 6 mil

Step 2: Trade Filppula

Step 3: Sign Hudler (or Sammy) @ 1.5 mil

Step 4: Sign Leino @ .9 mil

Step 5: Call up Helm and Abdelkader

Final result:

Offense:

Hudler (1.5) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Leino (.9) - Zetterberg (6) - Hossa (6)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.6) - Abdelkader (.74)

Meech (.483) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Kronwall (3)

Ericcson (.9) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 55.58ish

1.4ish million UNDER this year's cap which leaves plenty of room to do whatever. Helm, Abdelkader and Ericcson have proved they can play at the NHL level. Spare me the "I don't know about having that many Griffins in the line-up" routine. With the likes of Hank, Pav, Draper, Homer, Maltby and Lidstrom in the locker room they have plenty of mentors to show them the ropes. They have to be brought up at some point, now is the perfect time.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Step 1: Sign Hossa @ 6 mil

Step 2: Trade Filppula

Step 3: Sign Hudler (or Sammy) @ 1.5 mil

Step 4: Sign Leino @ .9 mil

Step 5: Call up Helm and Abdelkader

No way in hell Hudler goes for 1.5 million. I think we already used all our karma points on Z at 6. Sammy might, though.

Helm will be here for sure. Abkadoodle I'm not sure on. I'd just as soon see Downey on a permanent (and cheaper) roster spot to give Abkadoodle another year to develop. Swap him and Maltby out depending on who we're playing. In my opinion, Flip won't get traded, but IF he does, it's because Hossa's willing to sign around the 6 region and Franzen around 3 (unlikely, but I'd hope for it). Abdelkader wouldn't fit on that contract-wise anyhow, but Downey would.

[dallas27 7]

No way in hell Hudler goes for 1.5 million. I think we already used all our karma points on Z at 6. Sammy might, though.

Helm will be here for sure. Abkadoodle I'm not sure on. I'd just as soon see Downey on a permanent (and cheaper) roster spot to give Abkadoodle another year to develop. Swap him and Maltby out depending on who we're playing. In my opinion, Flip won't get traded, but IF he does, it's because Hossa's willing to sign around the 6 region and Franzen around 3 (unlikely, but I'd hope for it). Abdelkader wouldn't fit on that contract-wise anyhow, but Downey would.

Yea, it's all wishful thinking on my end. This team will be worse off with Filppula on it IMO. He's a good hockey player but he's burning a hole in the Red Wings pocket with that contract. Trading Filppula opens up a ton of different options for Mr. Holland.

Edited March 18, 2009 by dallas27

[MacK_Attack 108]

Yea, it's all wishful thinking on my end. This team will be worse off with Filppula on it IMO. He's a good hockey player but he's burning a hole in the Red Wings pocket with that contract. Trading Filppula opens up a ton of different options for Mr. Holland.

I don't know that you'd be able to move him without taking a contract back. The fact that he's signed through the cap crisis that's coming in 2010 makes him tough to move. Teams are terrified of acquiring contracts with terms past next season right now.

[Barrie 900]

I think Kenny's saying all the right things, but I'm sure even he know if we sign Hossa we're screwed in 2010-11.

[TheOwl 77]

In the end I think it'll come down to this years play-off performance, if Franzen out performs Hossa on the score sheet, then Franzen should stay. Really, it's not really about how many goals you score, it's when you score them. If Hossa starts racking up more key goals, game tieing goals, game winning goals etc, more then the Mule, then it should be obvious.

Too many of you are being caught up in this vortex of thinking we need really need Hossa to succeed. Would we really not be 1st place in the West without him? We did it last year with the same guys. Signing Franzen is a much better idea long-term, for one he'll be perhaps twice as cheap 3-4 Million, Hossa wants probably 6-7.45. Not only will we save 3-4 Million for a goalie, Sammy, Hudler or Leino etc etc, but what happens in a few years if the cap goes down? Obviously Lidstrom may retire, but losing Hossa won't be the end of the world. And if Hossa does sign, Sammy, Hudler, Leino, Franzen and Conklin are all gone for sure. Even Hossa at 6 million leaves nearly zero to sign anyone who's not a rookie.

If it comes down to it, Flipulla and Kronwall should go so Franzen and Hossa can both be signed. Ericcson has looked 10x better then Kronwall, who's having a terrible defensive year, just have him as a top 6 guy.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Step 1: Sign Hossa @ 6 mil

Step 2: Trade Filppula

Step 3: Sign Hudler (or Sammy) @ 1.5 mil

Step 4: Sign Leino @ .9 mil

Step 5: Call up Helm and Abdelkader

Final result:

Offense:

Hudler (1.5) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Leino (.9) - Zetterberg (6) - Hossa (6)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.6) - Abdelkader (.74)

Meech (.483) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Kronwall (3)

Ericcson (.9) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 55.58ish

1.4ish million UNDER this year's cap which leaves plenty of room to do whatever. Helm, Abdelkader and Ericcson have proved they can play at the NHL level. Spare me the "I don't know about having that many Griffins in the line-up" routine. With the likes of Hank, Pav, Draper, Homer, Maltby and Lidstrom in the locker room they have plenty of mentors to show them the ropes. They have to be brought up at some point, now is the perfect time.

1. Abdelkader is not ready. He needs another year at GR.

2. Hudler for 1.5 - you're dreaming 3.0 is more reasonable

3. Hudler is not first line material

4. Losing Mule would be a huge problem because we only have 1 guy that fills a similar role and he is 36 and has become injury prone.

I'm not sure how Abdelkader proved anything with his 6 games of NHL experience

One of the advantages the Wings have over other teams is that they don't rush their young players into the NHL and that is exactly what you are proposing.

It won't work

[Dano33 41]

In the end I think it'll come down to this years play-off performance, if Franzen out performs Hossa on the score sheet, then Franzen should stay. Really, it's not really about how many goals you score, it's when you score them. If Hossa starts racking up more key goals, game tieing goals, game winning goals etc, more then the Mule, then it should be obvious.

Too many of you are being caught up in this vortex of thinking we need really need Hossa to succeed. Would we really not be 1st place in the West without him? We did it last year with the same guys. Signing Franzen is a much better idea long-term, for one he'll be perhaps twice as cheap 3-4 Million, Hossa wants probably 6-7.45. Not only will we save 3-4 Million for a goalie, Sammy, Hudler or Leino etc etc, but what happens in a few years if the cap goes down? Obviously Lidstrom may retire, but losing Hossa won't be the end of the world. And if Hossa does sign, Sammy, Hudler, Leino, Franzen and Conklin are all gone for sure. Even Hossa at 6 million leaves nearly zero to sign anyone who's not a rookie.

If it comes down to it, Flipulla and Kronwall should go so Franzen and Hossa can both be signed. Ericcson has looked 10x better then Kronwall, who's having a terrible defensive year, just have him as a top 6 guy.

No doubt in my mind, we would not be in first place without him. And I wouldn't like our chances in the playoffs either. This is not the same team as last year, no matter what the roster says, we need him.

[rage 24]

I can't believe we aren't hearing any talks of an extension for either of these guys.

[eva unit zero 271]

As I have posted on other threads:

Either an acceptable trade for Stuart is found, or Filppula and Lebda are traded together or separately.

Past that...

Sign

Hossa $6m/yr

Hudler $1.8m/yr

Samuelsson $1.35m/yr

Leino $1m/yr

Kopecky $575k/yr

Leaves as UFA: Franzen, Conklin, Chelios

Promote

Ericsson $900k/yr

Howard $716,667/yr

Helm $599,444/yr

Preferably, Stuart is the one traded and Babcock can try out these lines:

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Hossa OR Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Zetterberg/Kopecky OR Hudler/Kopecky/Hossa

Leino/Filppula/Samuelsson

Cleary/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Of course, one thing everyone is forgetting is that the NHL CBA and salary cap uses escrow accounts, so if the cap is expected to go down and revenue isn't expected to meet the requirements for the cap being used for this season, then part of each player's salary will be withheld in escrow until the final revenue numbers have come in, at which point it is possible that players could actually receive pro-rated salaries for this season that are less than their agreed upon numbers.

Edited March 20, 2009 by eva unit zero

[Datsyerberger 279]

Hudler $1.8m/yr

Being a bit optimistic with that one, eva?

[eva unit zero 271]

Being a bit optimistic with that one, eva?

Look up Ales Kotalik or Tyler Arnason. Compare their numbers to Hudler's. $1.8m might not be dead on...but it's probably not far off, either.

[Grim 5]

The Mule signs first. Anyone else (including Hossa) will have to wait till season's end or atleast agree in principle.

[DatsMyWings13 4]

I'm starting to think that neither one will sign until after the playoffs. Especially with Holland saying he isn't close on a contract with either one at this point.

[dallas27 7]

1. Abdelkader is not ready. He needs another year at GR.

2. Hudler for 1.5 - you're dreaming 3.0 is more reasonable

3. Hudler is not first line material

If you would have looked a little more down I said that post is wishful thinking. I'm not expecting Hudler to sign for that (or Flip to be traded), which is also why I said OR Sammy. One of them will take that amount to stay on the team, take whoever does. The first and second line is interchangeable, it's really 1a and 1b when you have that amount of talent. If Hudler was given the amount of ice time Filppula gets everyone would see he is more than capable. He's already shown that when he's with Hossa they can be pretty deadly.

4. Losing Mule would be a huge problem because we only have 1 guy that fills a similar role and he is 36 and has become injury prone.

For the nth time and last time Mule is not anything like Homer nor will he ever be. Someone like Homer does not come around too often. Mule scores his goal by either floating around the net or driving to it, not sitting in front of it. If Mule is relegated to Homer's role you will see his goal production drop big time. It's a waste of talent to have Mule take Homer's role.

I'm not sure how Abdelkader proved anything with his 6 games of NHL experience

One of the advantages the Wings have over other teams is that they don't rush their young players into the NHL and that is exactly what you are proposing.

It won't work

Spare me the "I don't know about having that many Griffins in the line-up" routine. With the likes of Hank, Pav, Draper, Homer, Maltby and Lidstrom in the locker room they have plenty of mentors to show them the ropes. They have to be brought up at some point, now is the perfect time.