is franzen special?

[Phazon 24]

how many players in their late 20s emerged as franzen has? Can you think of any other examples? (except for goalies)

I am just so impressed with mule's game. The thing that surprises me most is that he can score highlight reel goals.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

And to think if all of those injuries didn't happen Mule might have not broken out of his shell.

[Datsyerberger 279]

No, but I've heard Ben Eager is.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

And to think if all of those injuries didn't happen Mule might have not broken out of his shell.

Explain.

[Mors 201]

Yes, he is.

[Opie 308]

I will get castrated for this answer but NO!

No he is not special, and he is not a force to be reckoned with, YET!

He is a talented player, and shows moments of unbelievable hands. He also disappears for months at a time, either injury or slump.

I have said this on this board many times, taking one half of one season and adding to one half of another season, plus one playoff streak does not make for a great season and playoff run.

He is a 29 year old player who didn't break into the NHL until the age of 26, he is a late developer. He is big, he has shown great hands, he has also shown to be very inconsistent. He also is more often than not on a line with a top 20 player in the league. Now last year he flip and sammy were one of the Wings best lines in the post season, but again one sample of the season doesn't make him special.

Lots of people like to talk about mule like he is a ppg player, he is not. This is the closest he has ever been, but it is 48 points in 60 games, .8 ppg. (SO FAR)

Besides his first campaign of 80 games his other three seasons have been 69,72, 71 (if he finishes the rest of the season).

If he stays at the same pace he could hit 56 points, 8 points next 11 games.

Don't get me wrong he has shown flashes of brilliance, but what makes him special? What has he emerged as? (Please don't say power forward or elite anything)

Edited March 19, 2009 by Opie

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Of course he's special.

Not many players could pull off that chicken dance that he did when Vandermeer tapped him on the chin.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Explain.

Once Holmstrom and Cleary went out last year Franzen was given more minutes in a more offensive scoring role.

[Bad Vlad Forever 1]

He's one of the top scorers in the NHL at present, was a beast last year in the playoffs, and scores CLUTCH goals. He's special.

/thread

[Mors 201]

I will get castrated for this answer but NO!

No he is not special, and he is not a force to be reckoned with, YET!

He is a talented player, and shows moments of unbelievable hands. He also disappears for months at a time, either injury or slump.

I have said this on this board many times, taking one half of one season and adding to one half of another season, plus one playoff streak does not make for a great season and playoff run.

He is a 29 year old player who didn't break into the NHL until the age of 26, he is a late developer. He is big, he has shown great hands, he has also shown to be very inconsistent. He also is more often than not on a line with a top 20 player in the league. Now last year he flip and sammy were one of the Wings best lines in the post season, but again one sample of the season doesn't make him special.

Lots of people like to talk about mule like he is a ppg player, he is not. This is the closest he has ever been, but it is 48 points in 60 games, .8 ppg. (SO FAR)

Besides his first campaign of 80 games his other three seasons have been 69,72, 71 (if he finishes the rest of the season).

If he stays at the same pace he could hit 56 points, 8 points next 11 games.

Don't get me wrong he has shown flashes of brilliance, but what makes him special? What has he emerged as? (Please don't say power forward or elite anything)

2nd on the team in goals scored behind only MARIAN HOSSA, and currently ahead of PAVEL DATSYUK. I'd say that's elite company.

Considering some of the other ridiculous arguments I've seen on this forum defending lesser players, I think Franzen is special.

[Chunkylover 26]

I will get castrated for this answer but NO!

No he is not special, and he is not a force to be reckoned with, YET!

He is a talented player, and shows moments of unbelievable hands. He also disappears for months at a time, either injury or slump.

I have said this on this board many times, taking one half of one season and adding to one half of another season, plus one playoff streak does not make for a great season and playoff run.

Don't get me wrong he has shown flashes of brilliance, but what makes him special? What has he emerged as? (Please don't say power forward or elite anything)

I won't castrate you, your analysis is fair. He's on pace for a very respectable season and if he can replicate last year's playoff success I think he'll have earned a reputation as a solid performer. But you are right, he needs to keep this up for a few more complete seasons before he becomes an elite. It took until the 06-07 playoffs for Datsyuk to earn that respect.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Here is Johan's "special chicken dance" that I was referring to earlier.

Youtube

Edited March 19, 2009 by GMRwings1983

[Doc Holiday 0]

Here is Johan's "special chicken dance" that I was referring to earlier.

Youtube

Congrats for being able to find a video on youtube.

I don't see how your "OMG HE DIVES" rhetoric deals with this discussion.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Congrats for being able to find a video on youtube.

I don't see how your "OMG HE DIVES" rhetoric deals with this discussion.

I guess I'm still pissed at him for embarassing the team that way. That wasn't very special, unless you're putting together a video on bad dance moves.

The answer to the OP's question depends on what you define as special.

Is he a good player? Yes. Is he a great player? No. He's not at that level that our other big 3 forwards are at. Those guys are special in my opinion.

[Opie 308]

2nd on the team in goals scored behind only MARIAN HOSSA, and currently ahead of PAVEL DATSYUK. I'd say that's elite company.

Considering some of the other ridiculous arguments I've seen on this forum defending lesser players, I think Franzen is special.

Jim Carrey had one hell of a season once too, is he special, was he emerging?

So Mule is in the company of Dats and Hossa. Well lets look at that statement shall we?

Career stats

Mule:

gp281 g78 a54 pts132 pim164

under .5 ppg

Hossa

gp766 g334 a376 pts710 pim454

Almost ppg, allstar, top 20 player in the game and in his first 4 years was 0.75 ppg and was in his early 20's HAS NEVER PLAYED LESS THAN 80 games!!!

Datsyuk

gp515 g167 a345 pts512 pims137

Barely under a ppg, lady bing winner, selke winner, all star, top 20 player in the game, first four years was a .84ppg player and was in his early-mid 20's

Datsyuk in his fourth year hit 87 points, the following year hit 87 points, the next year hit 97, and this year could hit 100.

AS I said, a small sampling does not make him special, he is above average and is showing signs that he could be special.

How many times has Hossa been near the top of the scoring leaders? How many times has mule?

Mule is one of 2 players on that top scorers list (he is tied for 11th, 20 people deep on that list) with less than 20 assists.

You want to see special, look at Dats, Look at Hossa, look at Malkin, look at AO those are special players, Mule is having a career year by a long shot at the age of 29 to be 30 next season.

He is having a great year for him goal wise, however special would not be the word to describe him, one year wonder, mr inconsistency maybe, but if he has a great year next year then maybe we can look at it as he was injured a lot and that hampered his development, but come on, special 29 goals and 19 assists is not special.

And what other players were called "Special" on here that you don't think deserve it, Hossa? Zetterberg? Datsyuk? Lids? Ralf? Those (IMO) are the special players on this team. Why you may ask, because the are unique talents in the league today.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Jim Carrey had one hell of a season once too, is he special, was he emerging?

So Mule is in the company of Dats and Hossa. Well lets look at that statement shall we?

Career stats

Mule:

gp281 g78 a54 pts132 pim164

under .5 ppg

Hossa

gp766 g334 a376 pts710 pim454

Almost ppg, allstar, top 20 player in the game and in his first 4 years was 0.75 ppg and was in his early 20's HAS NEVER PLAYED LESS THAN 80 games!!!

Datsyuk

gp515 g167 a345 pts512 pims137

Barely under a ppg, lady bing winner, selke winner, all star, top 20 player in the game, first four years was a .84ppg player and was in his early-mid 20's

Datsyuk in his fourth year hit 87 points, the following year hit 87 points, the next year hit 97, and this year could hit 100.

AS I said, a small sampling does not make him special, he is above average and is showing signs that he could be special.

How many times has Hossa been near the top of the scoring leaders? How many times has mule?

Mule is one of 2 players on that top scorers list (he is tied for 11th, 20 people deep on that list) with less than 20 assists.

You want to see special, look at Dats, Look at Hossa, look at Malkin, look at AO those are special players, Mule is having a career year by a long shot at the age of 29 to be 30 next season.

He is having a great year for him goal wise, however special would not be the word to describe him, one year wonder, mr inconsistency maybe, but if he has a great year next year then maybe we can look at it as he was injured a lot and that hampered his development, but come on, special 29 goals and 19 assists is not special.

And what other players were called "Special" on here that you don't think deserve it, Hossa? Zetterberg? Datsyuk? Lids? Ralf? Those (IMO) are the special players on this team. Why you may ask, because the are unique talents in the league today.

That was the year where he made "Dumb and Dumber" and "Ace Ventura" in the same year.

Seriously, though, I actually agree with you on this thread. Who knows, maybe he'll become the player that Pavel or Hank are, but he's not at that level yet. He was during the playoffs last year, but hasn't maintained that level of greatness. Obviously, I don't expect him to score a goal a game again, but still, he's not anywhere near as dominant as he was in the playoffs.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Jim Carrey had one hell of a season once too, is he special, was he emerging?

So Mule is in the company of Dats and Hossa. Well lets look at that statement shall we?

Career stats

Mule:

gp281 g78 a54 pts132 pim164

under .5 ppg

Hossa

gp766 g334 a376 pts710 pim454

Almost ppg, allstar, top 20 player in the game and in his first 4 years was 0.75 ppg and was in his early 20's HAS NEVER PLAYED LESS THAN 80 games!!!

Datsyuk

gp515 g167 a345 pts512 pims137

Barely under a ppg, lady bing winner, selke winner, all star, top 20 player in the game, first four years was a .84ppg player and was in his early-mid 20's

Datsyuk in his fourth year hit 87 points, the following year hit 87 points, the next year hit 97, and this year could hit 100.

AS I said, a small sampling does not make him special, he is above average and is showing signs that he could be special.

How many times has Hossa been near the top of the scoring leaders? How many times has mule?

Mule is one of 2 players on that top scorers list (he is tied for 11th, 20 people deep on that list) with less than 20 assists.

You want to see special, look at Dats, Look at Hossa, look at Malkin, look at AO those are special players, Mule is having a career year by a long shot at the age of 29 to be 30 next season.

He is having a great year for him goal wise, however special would not be the word to describe him, one year wonder, mr inconsistency maybe, but if he has a great year next year then maybe we can look at it as he was injured a lot and that hampered his development, but come on, special 29 goals and 19 assists is not special.

And what other players were called "Special" on here that you don't think deserve it, Hossa? Zetterberg? Datsyuk? Lids? Ralf? Those (IMO) are the special players on this team. Why you may ask, because the are unique talents in the league today.

Ummm, you act like this is a fluke yet he broke out last season.....

How is he being inconsistent?

[Mors 201]

Jim Carrey had one hell of a season once too, is he special, was he emerging?

So Mule is in the company of Dats and Hossa. Well lets look at that statement shall we?

Career stats

Mule:

gp281 g78 a54 pts132 pim164

under .5 ppg

Hossa

gp766 g334 a376 pts710 pim454

Almost ppg, allstar, top 20 player in the game and in his first 4 years was 0.75 ppg and was in his early 20's HAS NEVER PLAYED LESS THAN 80 games!!!

Datsyuk

gp515 g167 a345 pts512 pims137

Barely under a ppg, lady bing winner, selke winner, all star, top 20 player in the game, first four years was a .84ppg player and was in his early-mid 20's

Datsyuk in his fourth year hit 87 points, the following year hit 87 points, the next year hit 97, and this year could hit 100.

AS I said, a small sampling does not make him special, he is above average and is showing signs that he could be special.

How many times has Hossa been near the top of the scoring leaders? How many times has mule?

Mule is one of 2 players on that top scorers list (he is tied for 11th, 20 people deep on that list) with less than 20 assists.

You want to see special, look at Dats, Look at Hossa, look at Malkin, look at AO those are special players, Mule is having a career year by a long shot at the age of 29 to be 30 next season.

He is having a great year for him goal wise, however special would not be the word to describe him, one year wonder, mr inconsistency maybe, but if he has a great year next year then maybe we can look at it as he was injured a lot and that hampered his development, but come on, special 29 goals and 19 assists is not special.

And what other players were called "Special" on here that you don't think deserve it, Hossa? Zetterberg? Datsyuk? Lids? Ralf? Those (IMO) are the special players on this team. Why you may ask, because the are unique talents in the league today.

Your objective here seems to be more about discrediting Franzen as a valuable member of this team more so than anything else. Does it matter how late in his career it is or how old he is if he's performing now? Are you hoping he'll be leaving the team this year or just preparing yourself for the worst?

The way I look at it, this team would absolutely HAVE NOT won the Stanley Cup last year without Franzen, regardless of how late in his career it is or whether or not he's earned the distinction of being called "special".

Although I don't see how you could try to play down the fact that Franzen broke Gordie Howe's single series playoff goal record, and is currently tied with Zetterberg for the franchise playoff goal record.

Just my opinion.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Once Holmstrom and Cleary went out last year Franzen was given more minutes in a more offensive scoring role.

Perhaps....I took his post referring to injuries as those to Franzen early last season rather than to Homer and Cleary.

[Opie 308]

Ummm, you act like this is a fluke yet he broke out last season.....

How is he being inconsistent?

He broke out last season? when? did I miss it?

Did he score 40 and I missed it, did he have 50 assists and I missed it, did he hit 80+ points and i missed it?

What exactly did he do to break out?

Last year in 72 games he scored 38 points, that is a break out year? 27 goals is impressive, but does that makes him a special player?

Not in my book!

It makes him a good player, but nothing about Franzen as of yet screams this dude is special.

[dat's sick 1,002]

He has the ability to step up and score at important times. Didn't he tie some record for GWG's last season? That is a great ability and definitely makes him special.

He's inconsistant but when he's on he's unstoppable. Last couple of games he's been great and it looks like he might be heading into the playoffs on a similar note as last year.

[SDavis35 140]

I will get castrated for this answer but NO!

No he is not special, and he is not a force to be reckoned with, YET!

He is a talented player, and shows moments of unbelievable hands. He also disappears for months at a time, either injury or slump.

I have said this on this board many times, taking one half of one season and adding to one half of another season, plus one playoff streak does not make for a great season and playoff run.

He is a 29 year old player who didn't break into the NHL until the age of 26, he is a late developer. He is big, he has shown great hands, he has also shown to be very inconsistent. He also is more often than not on a line with a top 20 player in the league. Now last year he flip and sammy were one of the Wings best lines in the post season, but again one sample of the season doesn't make him special.

Lots of people like to talk about mule like he is a ppg player, he is not. This is the closest he has ever been, but it is 48 points in 60 games, .8 ppg. (SO FAR)

Besides his first campaign of 80 games his other three seasons have been 69,72, 71 (if he finishes the rest of the season).

If he stays at the same pace he could hit 56 points, 8 points next 11 games.

Don't get me wrong he has shown flashes of brilliance, but what makes him special? What has he emerged as? (Please don't say power forward or elite anything)

He has emerged as a....

Detroit Red Wing! As long as he helps the team win games and stay competitive, that`s all I need from him

[Doc Holiday 0]

He broke out last season? when? did I miss it?

Did he score 40 and I missed it, did he have 50 assists and I missed it, did he hit 80+ points and i missed it?

What exactly did he do to break out?

Last year in 72 games he scored 38 points, that is a break out year? 27 goals is impressive, but does that makes him a special player?

Not in my book!

It makes him a good player, but nothing about Franzen as of yet screams this dude is special.

Remember the last part of the season and the playoffs? That whole goal scoring streak?

You think he would have cooled off by now.

[Opie 308]

Your objective here seems to be more about discrediting Franzen as a valuable member of this team more so than anything else. Does it matter how late in his career it is or how old he is if he's performing now? Are you hoping he'll be leaving the team this year or just preparing yourself for the worst?

The way I look at it, this team would absolutely HAVE NOT won the Stanley Cup last year without Franzen, regardless of how late in his career it is or whether or not he's earned the distinction of being called "special".

Although I don't see how you could try to play down the fact that Franzen broke Gordie Howe's single series playoff goal record, and is currently tied with Zetterberg for the franchise playoff goal record.

Again a sampling that shows he could be special, Z is special because he does it for more than 2 or 3 months at a time! Z tied him in goals yes BUT SMOKED him in assists( ADDED BY OPIE< NOT MORS WORDS)

Just my opinion.

No I hope he stays around, because Hossa (I would love to keep around)will cost too much and Mule will be a valuable asset to have that could turn into a special player, what I am saying is that he is not special Currently!!!!!!

So Mule won the cup all by himself, the fact that 3 of his goals were direct results of his linemates forechecking doesn't impact that, or that at least 2 of his goals were power play deflections, not goals he created on his own? Let alone the fact that OZZIE not Mule was last years savior, doesn't enter your mind at all? The fact that Z not Mule was the Conn Smythe tells me with out Mule the Wings probably would have been OK! But we can not debate that, but to say the Wings would not have won with out Mule is a stretch to say the least.

If Franzen was so imperative to the Wings winning the cup how many goals did he score in the SCF, guess what He got out scored in the SCF by Sammy, does that make Sammy a special player, hell Sammy did something that has never occurred in the SCF before?

You have some very interesting revisionist history, I understand what he did last year, I also understand that when the playoff ended he was

But if you want to call him special fine do so, I stated my opinion and backed it up with facts, just like you just did?

Edited March 19, 2009 by Opie

[Opie 308]

He has emerged as a....

Detroit Red Wing! As long as he helps the team win games and stay competitive, that`s all I need from him

HERE HERE!!!!

That is all I am asking from him, however he is not special yet.