The misconception that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are equal

[Opie 308]

This argument is stupid, first of all they are both Wings for life, have team first mentality. Dats always credits Z, as is his humble way, and Z always compliments Dats. The two are two of the top 3 defensive forwards in the game, top 5 all around players in the game, top 20 forwards in the game. The beauty of the two is they don't care who wins the Conn Smythe, Lady Bing, Selke, Pearson, or any other crap, they both care a lot more about who wins the cup and an individual can't do that.

This argument is like who is the best Beastie Boy!

MCA FTW mofos!!

Maybe Ad Rock!

No Way Mike D is the best!

I mean Datsyuk, no wait Zetterberg!

[Chris L 0]

I love Z for a lot of reasons. Mostly because of his heart and work ethic. Those killer 5 on 3 PK's from last year's finals told me everything I need to know about the guy. Damn was he amazing on those kills!

Z rocks.

Having said that Dats is the better forward. He makes anyone (but Hossa) amazing. What makes Z and Dats such a good combo is the mind meld they seem to have out there. Their chemistry is so good on the ice I'd say their chemistry rivals Gretzky and Kuri back in the day.

[wingslionstigers 12]

I don't understand why you would want to put down one of your most important players either way. Why don't you just appreciate the fact we have them both and every other team in the world only wishes they had 2 players like that.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

datsyuk is better by far. he is one of the five best players in the world and maybe zeta is top 20 but he just is not on pavels level. he is only good with pavel because he feels more comfortable so he tries more tricks

Z can produce just fine without Pavel. Have you been watching the playoffs?

[Rick 42]

actually I think he gives a very well thought response. The "Pavel people" have used alot of logic, stats, and facts to back up their opinions. I don't see that with the Zetterberg people. Alot of emotional rhetoric but nothing else.

Look, it's real simple, Zetterberg is favored by the majority here, everybody knows it, he's simply got more fans on LGW but it doesn't mean he's the better player.

I don't know how a guy who wins the Selke, nominated for the Hart and Pearson and puts up 97 points back to back playing with anyone while taking literaly half as less shots as Ovekchin isn't the best all around player in the league. Consider all the Byngs , his less PIMs than Z, his takeaways, p/m ratio, and it's even more impressive.

his plus/minus is +34 3rd in the league, Zetterberg isn't even top 30

his FO % , 9th in the league, Zetterberg is 20th in the league

more Hits than Zetterberg,

more games played each seson,

second in the league in Takeaways, Zetterberg not even in the top 30 in the league

and I don't understand the debate.

but he's a greedy Russian who never could produce in the playoffs , especially when we were getting bounced in the first and second rounds and nobody else was scoring. He got the big contract sooner than Zetterberg despite the fact that he's been a Wing longer but hey, just another greedy Russian.

You don't understand the debate because you think points is the only factor that determines the captaincy.

[Vladifan 680]

Milk = good.

Cookies = good.

Milk AND cookies = uber.

Same with D and Z.

What a perfect analogy. Or whatever it's called. It's like apple and oranges. I personally like them both and they're both good for me.

I think for myself I'm just gonna be damn grateful we have both of 'em.

[Vladifan 680]

You mean like picking one over the other?

We can. Some people do. In fact, you're doing it right now.

The fact is that they're both great players. Being lucky to have both is merely third opinion.

I guess my question is why we have to have a discussion in which we're not allowed that third option.

For the record, my opinion is that Dats is better than Z, but if I had the 3 options in a poll, I'd go with #3.

This.

[Jake Ryan 1]

This is one of those cases where Wings fans make me sad. Homer has a role to play - of course he is not Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Funny how people forget how pivotal Homer has been in many PO runs - 2002 (had a great year), 2007, 2008, etc. His job is not to provide PO reel highlights but to make the opposing goalie's life tough. I think it is fair to say he is among the best in the league at that. Sure he is near the end of his career as a Red Wing. And now some people would like to toss him under the bus... nice.

I'm not saying Holmstrom hasn't been valueable to the wings in the past. Quite the opposite. I'm just saying that he SUCKS as of right now. Instead of bagging on the players that are actually in their primes and playing LIGHTS OUT hockey (Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa), why don't Wings fans point out the REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sore thumb of the team and start to question his value? It's sad that a guy like Holmstrom gets to skate around with world class players and still can't get it done. Robitaille always got to play with a good center, but that guy could score. Same with Shanahan. Same with Bossy. These guys weren't the best skaters on the planet, but they could put it away. I'm not saying that Babcock needs to kick Holmstrom off the team. Homer certainly has his role to play on the PP. But someone else should be given a chance to see what they can do with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Dan Cleary stepped it up when he got to play on Z's line. Get someone in there with some speed (cough cough HELM cough cough), and let's see what happens to Datsyuk's shadows. The only reason the opponents are able to stick a forward AND a defenseman on Datsyuk and neutralize him is because of Ninety-SUX. It only takes half a player (meaning, the defenseman has his eye on Holmstrom and will cover him when he catches up with the plaly 2 seconds later) to shut down Holmstrom. That's where Datsyuk's problem lies.

[WingsCaptain 0]

To the OP:

Fortunately, we don't have to decide who the 'better' player is because neither of them have huge egos, which allows them to play extremely well together. Hmmm, that's most of the Red Wings actually.

I mean really, both of them are world class hockey players and would do well apart -- as they showed during the regular season on different lines. Comparing them is apples and oranges -- two different players that just happen to complement each other. But, ain't life grand when we get to see them together? It's like being 5 years old on Christmas morning all over again and getting a shiny, new bicycle. Almost too good to be true sometimes.

[Corey Perry 0]

This debate with "Ryan Getzlaf" has been going on since the moment Z and Pavel joined the Wings. He's probably gone through close to 30 usernames by now. It may seem all nicely reasoned, but the heart of the matter is a grudge because most Wing fans loved Yzerman more than Fedorov (ironically I prefer Fedorov myself). He's drawing the parallels because it seems fans are drawn more to Z than Pavel. He trots out all the tired stereotypes rather than accept that it can be a matter of preference. And that it isn't definitively proven that Datsyuk is the better player. IMO he shouldn't have won the Selke last season. And he shouldn't this year. He's not the best defensive forward on the Wings. The voters don't always get it right (see Green being nominated for the Norris, let alone winning it as he more than likely will).

Stats don't tell the whole story. They never do. But if you're hung up on stats, look at the ones from April on. The ones when the games really matter.

31 usernames and don't act as if the topics I start waste bandwidth or don't create interesting debates. You guys allow "5,000,000 posts for a win in game three" but act as if this debate is worthless. Its a good debate.

The jury isn't out on Datsyuk, hes clearly the better player at this point. Even if Zetterberg is better defensively, Datsyuk outscored Zetterberg by 20 points. If we're going to go down the route of "Voters getting it wrong" than I would like to revisit a few of those Norris votes in Lidstrom's favor. I have no proof that he wasn't the best defenseman in the game, paid professionals who watch multiple players on a nightly basis picked him as the best defenseman in the game but I can just as easily say that he was in fact not Norris worthy.

Datsyuk is going to go down in the book as winning two Selke's in a row and possibly more. It has also been seen, on multiple occasions that Datsyuk is the better player and this isn't just a "fluke" season. Datsyuk has led this team in scoring since 2003-04, he is a Selke winner, four time Lady Byng winner and he is a Pearson and Hart finalist. Zetterberg has a Smythe...

It sad that it took till the Colorado series last season for the so called "Fans" of this team to come around to Datsyuk and now they're all on the bandwagon.. well when he starts scoring they will be on the bandwagon.

I think more people need to realize that you actually have to play 100% in the regular season to actually make the playoffs, so the coasting, injuries and generally lower gear of play that the golden boy Swedes play in the regular season isn't as valuable as Datsyuk, giving it all every single shift and making players around him better.

Datsyuk is in the same company as Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin no one is prepared to make that comparison with Zetterberg.

[kegacide 0]

is it me or is JeffBridges halfway delusional? reading this thread i just keep shaking my head...

[Peleshob 0]

All I know if that if Z-D-H start to click... and the newly formed "secondary scoring" continue to click... everyone shall perish. It'll be like opening Pandora's Box. None of us will be able to watch because it will be too great and powerful for our eyes.

In terms of who's better, I think it's fair to say that Zetterberg spent a lot of his season playing against other team's top lines. I don't think there difference is as great as some people think.

[Corey Perry 0]

is it me or is JeffBridges halfway delusional? reading this thread i just keep shaking my head...

Delusional, how so?

Delusional to suggest that Yzerman wasn't the best player on this team post 1993?

Or that I don't repeat the company line of "Lidstrom is the best player in the world, always has been since the beginning of time"

Or "The writers got it wrong, Datsyuk is the second best defensive player on this team"

Or "Smythe > 5 consecutive seasons of leading this team in scoring, 4 Byngs, 2 Selkes and a Pearson in a pear tree"

[blikst 1]

31 usernames and don't act as if the topics I start waste bandwidth or don't create interesting debates. You guys allow "5,000,000 posts for a win in game three" but act as if this debate is worthless. Its a good debate.

The jury isn't out on Datsyuk, hes clearly the better player at this point. Even if Zetterberg is better defensively, Datsyuk outscored Zetterberg by 20 points. If we're going to go down the route of "Voters getting it wrong" than I would like to revisit a few of those Norris votes in Lidstrom's favor. I have no proof that he wasn't the best defenseman in the game, paid professionals who watch multiple players on a nightly basis picked him as the best defenseman in the game but I can just as easily say that he was in fact not Norris worthy.

Datsyuk is going to go down in the book as winning two Selke's in a row and possibly more. It has also been seen, on multiple occasions that Datsyuk is the better player and this isn't just a "fluke" season. Datsyuk has led this team in scoring since 2003-04, he is a Selke winner, four time Lady Byng winner and he is a Pearson and Hart finalist. Zetterberg has a Smythe...

It sad that it took till the Colorado series last season for the so called "Fans" of this team to come around to Datsyuk and now they're all on the bandwagon.. well when he starts scoring they will be on the bandwagon.

I think more people need to realize that you actually have to play 100% in the regular season to actually make the playoffs, so the coasting, injuries and generally lower gear of play that the golden boy Swedes play in the regular season isn't as valuable as Datsyuk, giving it all every single shift and making players around him better.

Datsyuk is in the same company as Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin no one is prepared to make that comparison with Zetterberg.

Did you just start watching hockey this year?

[Corey Perry 0]

Did you just start watching hockey this year?

Yes... and so did the pro writers association apparently.

We get it, Swedes are great, Russians are bad. Datsyuk wins an award and it was a mistep by the writers or the players apparently and if Zetterberg wins an award its justified since hes the second best player in the world, the first spot obviously going to Nick Lidstrom.

[Rush 7]

A Selke finalist, 75 point player is nothing to put down but its clearly not the same as a 100 point Selke season.

Datsyuk has had a 100 point season? No, close doesn't count, sorry. Gordie Howe never had a 50 goal season, no matter how close he was so don't say otherwise just because it sounds better for your argument. Me and my brother had this exact same argument before last year's playoffs started so we made a little bet. Who ever had the better post season last year we would agree was the better player.

I'd rather have a Conn Smythe winner over a Hart Trophy winner any day of the week (not that Datsyuk has won the Hart, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as a finalist).

Oh btw, of course my brother reneged on the bet. He said it didn't count cause Osgood shoulda won the Conn Smythe ;p

[norrisnick 1]

31 usernames and don't act as if the topics I start waste bandwidth or don't create interesting debates. You guys allow "5,000,000 posts for a win in game three" but act as if this debate is worthless. Its a good debate.

The jury isn't out on Datsyuk, hes clearly the better player at this point. Even if Zetterberg is better defensively, Datsyuk outscored Zetterberg by 20 points. If we're going to go down the route of "Voters getting it wrong" than I would like to revisit a few of those Norris votes in Lidstrom's favor. I have no proof that he wasn't the best defenseman in the game, paid professionals who watch multiple players on a nightly basis picked him as the best defenseman in the game but I can just as easily say that he was in fact not Norris worthy.

Datsyuk is going to go down in the book as winning two Selke's in a row and possibly more. It has also been seen, on multiple occasions that Datsyuk is the better player and this isn't just a "fluke" season. Datsyuk has led this team in scoring since 2003-04, he is a Selke winner, four time Lady Byng winner and he is a Pearson and Hart finalist. Zetterberg has a Smythe...

It sad that it took till the Colorado series last season for the so called "Fans" of this team to come around to Datsyuk and now they're all on the bandwagon.. well when he starts scoring they will be on the bandwagon.

I think more people need to realize that you actually have to play 100% in the regular season to actually make the playoffs, so the coasting, injuries and generally lower gear of play that the golden boy Swedes play in the regular season isn't as valuable as Datsyuk, giving it all every single shift and making players around him better.

Datsyuk is in the same company as Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin no one is prepared to make that comparison with Zetterberg.

If it were up to me those X post threads wouldn't exist.

I love the delicious irony that the bolded section could very easily be applied to Fedorov.

[Hossa7.4 0]

You don't understand the debate because you think points is the only factor that determines the captaincy.

yeah, too bad his dad wasn't a coach.

[Rick 42]

yeah, too bad his dad wasn't a coach.

Göran Zetterberg is coach of the hockey team in Njurunda.

[Hossa7.4 0]

Göran Zetterberg is coach of the hockey team in Njurunda.

good for him.

[Jake Ryan 1]

good for him.

This made me laugh. What an ass!

[blikst 1]

Yes... and so did the pro writers association apparently.

We get it, Swedes are great, Russians are bad. Datsyuk wins an award and it was a mistep by the writers or the players apparently and if Zetterberg wins an award its justified since hes the second best player in the world, the first spot obviously going to Nick Lidstrom.

Yeah, that was exactly what I was saying. Please show me a post where I've said anything like russians being bad. You need to relax and realize that you aren't necessarily a hater just because someone disagree with you.

Edited May 13, 2009 by blikst

[digitaljohn88 4]

Hart Trophy Finalists in the playoffs:

Datsyuk: 4pts

Malkin: 17pts

Ovechkin: 20pts

This is making me sad. Please put something in the net Dats.

Edited May 13, 2009 by digitaljohn88

[Motown4013 350]

This is something that has shown apparent this season. Z is an amazing player no doubt, but he'll never have the season he did last year without Datsyuk. I'd say Datsyuk >> Hossa > Zetterberg. Z is still a top 30 forward and top 10ish 2 way forward, but Datsyuk easily outshines him.

Defensively Z is the best forward on the team, however. But all encompassing, Datsyuk is the better player.

That said, I don't think 6mil for Z is that huge of a discount.

Are you kidding me??? Z is the THIRD best forward on this team...thats a joke. As for the "Its not that much of a deal for Z at 6 mill...Its the best deal that the Wings have made in years. He is worth every cent and would have fetched 7 million ++ on the open market. Zetterberg- CONN SMYTH WINNER, STANLEY CUP WINNER, POINT A GAME IN THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR Verses Hossa ( No Conn Smythe, No Cup and can only score in game 4's in the playoffs...Please! Hossa is a quality player but I would big Z ANY DAY over Hossa.