RockyMountainWingGal 108 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 LOL, I don't want the Wings to lose or get hurt, you silly, illiterate man. I want them to toughen-up and quit playing like girls and refusing to fight. You think the Wings played like girls in sweeping the Jackets? You must have been watching a different series than me. The Wings took it physically to the Jackets - the epitome being Stuart's hit on Umberger. Franzen laid out Nash a few times also. Cleary, Z, and Pavel were all tossing some bodies. The Jackets' forums were screaming about their team getting beat up. I'll take a 4-game ass-kicking with plenty of physical play over some goon taking fighting majors and losing us the series.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) So if " This is the playoffs! ", why are all these fighters and goons even playing? I thought the playoffs were all skill and players such as Brashear, Parros, Orr, Roy, don't get any ice time, let alone have any impact on the game with their ridiculous savagery. I mean why would Letang even go after Carcillo? It doesn't accomplish anything in the game right? esteef I'm thinking that if and when the Wings take it all, you guys will still say they needed fighters and/or enforcers because it happens like this every year, even when they win the Cup. Won't matter that these other guys and their teams lost, maybe because of how they hurt their teams. If the officials make the right calls and the Wings keep on playing THEIR game, they will win. But the argument will go on forever and ever. Amen, and pardon me while I go puke. Edited April 27, 2009 by Vladifan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted April 27, 2009 No, what's your response? Say Brashear's on the third line. So you put Downey in the game for who? Who do you leave out for that whole game in the playoffs? AND when Downey leaves the ice (and he will if he does what you want him to do), what happens? What's your solution to the energy drain and the shifts in lines and the inbalance that will no doubt take place? Really, the point here is do you give a s***? What on earth are you babbling about? Did I say that I think Downey should be in? Also, why do you suspect Downey would "leave the ice"? He fought Brashear before without having to leave the game. What was different then? I am saying that when a guy like Brash lays a reckless hit and injures one of your players and doesn't even draw a penalty in return - I think good stand-up men will send the message that that isn't okay. What would you prefer to see happen? Ignore it, leave ?Brash in the game and let him do it again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 Do you know how to have a discussion with someone and be respectful at the same time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted April 27, 2009 You think the Wings played like girls in sweeping the Jackets? You must have been watching a different series than me. The Wings took it physically to the Jackets - the epitome being Stuart's hit on Umberger. Franzen laid out Nash a few times also. Cleary, Z, and Pavel were all tossing some bodies. The Jackets' forums were screaming about their team getting beat up. I'll take a 4-game ass-kicking with plenty of physical play over some goon taking fighting majors and losing us the series.... I think that the after-whistle jaw-running and glove-punching is girlie, yup. If you refuse to fight, skate back to the bench like the coward you are, don't talk smack and posture likwe you're some badass. I was happuy with the way the Wings played hockey against the BJs. I was sickened by some of their post-whistle extra-curriculars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) I'm thinking that if and when the Wings take it all, you guys will still say they needed fighters and/or enforcers because it happens like this every year, even when they win the Cup. Won't matter that these other guys and their teams lost, maybe because of how they hurt their teams. If the officials make the right calls and the Wings keep on playing THEIR game, they will win. But the argument will go on forever and ever. Amen, and pardon me while I go puke. I ask again, why are these fighters and goons playing in the playoffs? All "you guys" made it painfully clear that there's none of that business in the playoffs, it's all skill and fast skating. So why would teams, who are absolutely trying to win and advance, choose to employ fighters in the playoffs if it's so obvious that tactic doesn't work? All year long we were told "not in the playoffs", "Just wait til the playoffs", well they're here and so are the fighters, fights, scrums, cheap shots, what gives? esteef Edited April 27, 2009 by esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) I ask again, why are these fighters and goons playing in the playoffs? All "you guys" made it painfully clear that there's none of that business in the playoofs, it's all skill and fast skating. So why would teams, who are absolutely trying to win and advance, choose to employ fighters in the playoffs if it's so obvious that tactic doesn't work? All year long we were told "not in the playoffs", "Just wait til the playoffs", well they're here and so are the fighters, fights, scrums, cheap shots, what gives? esteef You're choosing a topic about Brashear getting suspended to prove a point as to the place of goons in the playoffs? Brilliant! More of this, please. Edited April 27, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 You're choosing a topic about Brashear getting suspended to prove a point as to the place of goons in the playoffs? Brilliant! More of this, please. No, I'm talking about the mere presence of "goons" in the playoffs. I thought that was a no-no, if you're trying to "win". esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 Anyway - I haven't said that I think the Wings should ice Downey in the playoffs. I think that what needs to happen should a guy like Brash start getting chippy with this team, is that some sacrificial lamb goes out there and takes him off the icem, 5 minutes at a time. Maltby ain't gonna play next year anyway, he could man-up for the 1st time in his carreer. Franzen is a biggish guy - he oughta be able to handle himself. Shanahan picked a fight with Brash last year, he ain't much bigger than Franzen - and Franzen is younger, in his prime....right? LOL So Maltby goes out there and actually takes out Brashear/Whoever. So he's gone. One way or another, he's gone probably at least for five or ten. And since he's not a fighter anymore, he's probably injured, SINCE WE DON'T HAVE THE NEED TO PLAY THAT WAY ANYMORE. So that means somebody else takes his place on the ice. Meanwhile, Franzen comes out and hopefully doesn't have his head handed to him and he "does well" taking out Whoever. And because he does well, he's gone too. Or SINCE WE DON'T PLAY THAT WAY ANYMORE AND DON'T NEED TO, he's probably injured too. So much for continuity, puck possession and real toughness when it counts, plus the depth of four lines, and probably The Win. But by golly some fans got their revenge and that's what really counts, huh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted April 27, 2009 Do you know how to have a discussion with someone and be respectful at the same time? You talkin' to me? Yes, yes I do. I'm sorry if I'm coming accross as disrespectful, I don't mean to. I get frustrated when people fail to reply to questions they've been presented with or build straw-Downeys to beatup and I let it get the best of me. Thanks for the reminder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 27, 2009 No, I'm talking about the mere presence of "goons" in the playoffs. I thought that was a no-no, if you're trying to "win". esteef Well ask the Caps, did this suspension or his 0 playoff points help them win? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 You're choosing a topic about Brashear getting suspended to prove a point as to the place of goons in the playoffs? Brilliant! More of this, please. OHHHHHH, THANK YOU! I'm so done here because it'll never end, even (hopefully) after the Wings take it all. But I'm SO glad you came to visit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 Well ask the Caps, did this suspension or his 0 playoff points help them win? Did the Caps win? (I don't think they look to Brash to score goals btw.) esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted April 27, 2009 So Maltby goes out there and actually takes out Brashear/Whoever. So he's gone. One way or another, he's gone probably at least for five or ten. And since he's not a fighter anymore, he's probably injured, SINCE WE DON'T HAVE THE NEED TO PLAY THAT WAY ANYMORE. So that means somebody else takes his place on the ice. Meanwhile, Franzen comes out and hopefully doesn't have his head handed to him and he "does well" taking out Whoever. And because he does well, he's gone too. Or SINCE WE DON'T PLAY THAT WAY ANYMORE AND DON'T NEED TO, he's probably injured too. So much for continuity, puck possession and real toughness when it counts, plus the depth of four lines, and probably The Win. But by golly some fans got their revenge and that's what really counts, huh. "Anymore"? When was Maltby a fighter? Brashear is tough no doubt - but he doesn't injurr a lot of people. Maltby fighting him would likely result in pain, but most likely not injurry. So, let me know if I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying that if Brash injures one of our guys with a reckless illegal hit and doesn't draw a penalty, the Wings should just ignore it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted April 27, 2009 Well ask the Caps, did this suspension or his 0 playoff points help them win? I think Betts is probably more valuable than Brash, and he'll likely be out longer than Brash - I'd say the Caps got the better end of the deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 27, 2009 Did the Caps win? (I don't think they look to Brash to score goals btw.) esteef Well scoring goals is what leads to wins. Unless you're suggesting that teams win by goonery or fights, in which case you've confused hockey with boxing or the UFC. Nonetheless, it's obvious the Caps won't miss him and this awesome goonery that caused him to get suspended (is this the winning style I keep hearing about?), and his 2-4 minutes per game will easily go elsewhere. That pretty much sums up why using this as an example of the place of this type of play in the playoffs is horrible. It's his style of play that just got himself suspended. Hopefully we can put two and two together because helping a team win doesn't count when you're not playing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 I ask again, why are these fighters and goons playing in the playoffs? All "you guys" made it painfully clear that there's none of that business in the playoffs, it's all skill and fast skating. So why would teams, who are absolutely trying to win and advance, choose to employ fighters in the playoffs if it's so obvious that tactic doesn't work? All year long we were told "not in the playoffs", "Just wait til the playoffs", well they're here and so are the fighters, fights, scrums, cheap shots, what gives? esteef What gives is the Wings swept their series with the Bluejackets. That's about all we have to go on right now. We're just going to have to wait and see what happens in the next few series. And you're right. It's not all speed and agility and I don't think anyone here is saying the fighters won't make some points along the way. But I believe puck possession and winning is still the bottom line, whether you're pounded or not. And if we win it all, I would bet almost anything that you will come back here and ask where are our fighters and enforcers when we need them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 27, 2009 I think Betts is probably more valuable than Brash, and he'll likely be out longer than Brash - I'd say the Caps got the better end of the deal. Betts also had 0 points. Brashear didn't just knock out a player that would exactly help the Rangers win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miller76 463 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 Betts also had 0 points. Brashear didn't just knock out a player that would exactly help the Rangers win. actually Betts was their leading face-off guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted April 27, 2009 "Anymore"? When was Maltby a fighter? Brashear is tough no doubt - but he doesn't injurr a lot of people. Maltby fighting him would likely result in pain, but most likely not injurry. So, let me know if I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying that if Brash injures one of our guys with a reckless illegal hit and doesn't draw a penalty, the Wings should just ignore it? This is my last "babbling" response to you and whoever else keeps braying about this. YOU'RE the one who brought up Maltby, who's obviously enough of a loser in your eyes that he should go out there and lay it on the line. And I just love the idea that you think it's OK if he's in pain afterward. How much pain is acceptable to you? Bruises? Stretched ligaments? Dislocations? What do YOU consider injuries? Something that takes him out of the game/series or maybe less where he might come back in the third period? And could you please get that in writing from Brashear or whoever that they won't really hit to injure? Oh, wait.... YES. I'm saying that if some a-hole like Brashear recklessly and illegaly hits one of our guys on the ice - if it can't be taken care of right there and then by whoever's on the ice - that YES, the Wings play their game to the best of their ability and hope that the NHL comes through like it did this time. "Strategic violence" (meaning we go after Brashear?) is most definitely taboo. Could we at least keep that in mind when we're making all these grandiose statements about what "should" be done? Have a nice day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 28, 2009 actually Betts was their leading face-off guy. Really? Betts: 41.7% on Faceoffs, Total Faceoffs taken=> 84 Gomez: 47.3% on Faceoffs, Total Faceoffs taken=> 112 Dubinsky: 51.2% on Faceoffs, Total Faceoffs taken=> 96 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miller76 463 Report post Posted April 28, 2009 Really? Betts: 41.7% on Faceoffs, Total Faceoffs taken=> 84 Gomez: 47.3% on Faceoffs, Total Faceoffs taken=> 112 Dubinsky: 51.2% on Faceoffs, Total Faceoffs taken=> 96 Yeah I am to lazy to look up stats. I thought Betts was a load also, but the announcers from yesterdays game said he was the team leader for face-offs! I took their word for it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Yeah I am to lazy to look up stats. I thought Betts was a load also, but the announcers from yesterdays game said he was the team leader for face-offs! I took their word for it! As you should know about me, I almost never do. (to the bold) Especially if it's an American broadcast that says it. These idiots are just that -- idiots. Actually, as I read up on an article from Yahoo THAT said he was a leading faceoff guy. Um, he only led faceoffs shorthanded, but he even lost way more than half of those too. Someone is embellishing big time and that's obviously to further demonize Brashear. Edited April 28, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted April 28, 2009 So if " This is the playoffs! ", why are all these fighters and goons even playing? We're talking about the Wings. The Wings are the class of the league. Why? Because they win. And win. And win. And then they win some more. And then when they're done, they win. How is this possible? They have a good system and they stick to it. They value skill. They emphasize two-way play and puck-possession. They strive for classy conduct. They don't get bogged down in stupid s***. Which is not to say they don't know how to play a rough, physical game -- they absolutely do, as anyone who's watched their last two playoff runs should know. If the opposition wants to dress a goon, then Babs might dress Mac or Downey. It's not like there are no fighters within the organization. Generally, though, the Wings don't give two s***s about fighting, and that's to their benefit. Their last postseason run speaks for itself: Downey wasn't dressed for a single game, Mac had one meaningless scrum (and was otherwise a brutal liability), and the Wings carried the physical play in every series -- en route to winning the Cup. Let other teams have their goons. The Wings will keep winning. Because that's just what they do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted April 28, 2009 Can we stop the fighter argument and get back to dissing Brashear? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
