Babcock's coaching

[Probie 7]

Ok, Grand Rapids got swept tonight. Is there any chance that any of those players (especially Leino) are in Anaheim tomorrow night?

^^^

Yeah, bring in Lieno and then our fourth line can score a little bit, then the Duckettes have 4 lines to deal with, and not 3. Hopefully draper is in too for game 4. Rafalski in game 4 would be an awesome boost too.

I would love to put Abdelkader in, but I worry about rookie mistakes during playoff time, where as Lieno is more seasoned.

[Outsider 42]

^^^

Yeah, bring in Lieno and then our fourth line can score a little bit, then the Duckettes have 4 lines to deal with, and not 3. Hopefully draper is in too for game 4. Rafalski in game 4 would be an awesome boost too.

I would love to put Abdelkader in, but I worry about rookie mistakes during playoff time, where as Lieno is more seasoned.

Both Draper and Rafalski have been ruled out for Game 4.

My opinion?

Not lookin' like they'll be back for Game 5, either.

The Wings are gonna have to do this without them.

They need to concentrate on who IS playing, who IS in the line-up, rather than on who ISN'T.

Those who are sidelined have ZERO CHANCE of helping them Win Game 4. Focus on those who CAN. This is the trap they fell into in 2007.....

"Things will pick up when Schneider comes back...."

Phooey. There is no tomorrow.

Drapes and Raf are DEAD to the Team for Game 4, and probably Game 5, too.

Move on without them.

Focus. Execute. Make it happen.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Outsider

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Just another little tidbit.

Malkin was invisible in the first 2 games against Washington.

Tonight, in Game 3, Bylsma switched up the lines and moved Talbot up with Malkin. Malkin scored a goal.

Just one more coach who is making adjustments to his benefit. Babs better take not. I'm sick of our "1st" line getting outplayed by our "2nd" and "3rd."

[FLWINGSFAN4013 5]

how about tell the players that every period is the 3rd and we should be good to go

[Dabura 12,232]

Who's to say he WON'T change things up, once they're on the ice?

Why should he tip his hand to the Press, and allow his enemy to think he's got him on the run?

I was going to make this point.

Obviously he should've started tinkering as far back as Game 2. But in the here and now, his seeming complacency about the lines does not necessarily mean he doesn't plan to mix things up tomorrow night. Dealing with the media is a game in and of itself in the playoffs.

[Guest MrSandMan]

I might be the minority here, but I think Babcock is an amazing coach. His record since coming to Detroit has been splendid and he's a competitor.

Not sure how anyone can dis him, he's brilliant.

[Outsider 42]

I was going to make this point.

Obviously he should've started tinkering as far back as Game 2. But in the here and now, his seeming complacency about the lines does not necessarily mean he doesn't plan to mix things up tomorrow night. Dealing with the media is a game in and of itself in the playoffs.

There ya go.

Seems like a lot of folks here forget, (if they ever knew), that Mike Babcock also holds a Masters Degree in Sports Psychology.

Not to state without reservation that an advanced Degree is the end-all, be-all, (God knows....there are some real dim bulbs out there with PhD's), but if the guy cared enough to STUDY what makes an athlete tick, from the INSIDE, then he's not just in this for sh!ts and giggles, folks.

You think he's been as successful and effective as a Coach and motivator out of luck?

He obviously wants to know EVERYTHING it takes to Win. Physically, mentally, and emotionally.

The man's a sharp cookie. He knows when to use the carrot, and he knows when to use the stick.

He also knows how, and when, and with WHOM, his strengths lie.

And he HAS coached a large number of these very same Duckies. He knows what makes THEM tick, too.

His players had best listen to him.

If he TELLS them "stay outta the scrums. Do not get sucked in", then there's a reason for it.

Ignoring him is just ASKING for trouble.

[Wingsallwin 0]

Just another little tidbit.

Malkin was invisible in the first 2 games against Washington.

Tonight, in Game 3, Bylsma switched up the lines and moved Talbot up with Malkin. Malkin scored a goal.

Just one more coach who is making adjustments to his benefit. Babs better take not. I'm sick of our "1st" line getting outplayed by our "2nd" and "3rd."

As much as I agree with 'Outsider', I also agree with you. If there is no spark on our first line, something is going wrong. That is the job what Babcock has to do as the head coach, not a random assistant coach or whatever.

Sure, the result can come up different because Malkin is Malkin and Hossa or Pavel are themselves, not Malkin. However, if the things have not gone for 3 GAMES, not only 1 game, it is gotta be in trouble.

As the series goes farther, each team's best players have to be on their head. At that time, our depth will show its own bright because we have better 2nd and 3rd lines. However, the fact which kills us right now is that our 1st line is being overplayed by the Ducks' first line while our 2nd and 3rd lines are not that productive either. One of option have to be done but neither happened so far.

I seriously do not know why Babcock keeps using Datsyuk and Hossa together; I also do not understand why he keeps using Samuelsson on PP unit. These two things make me very irritated.

If something is going wrong, it is there to be fixed up. If it is not fixed up, do I have to say more?

[Probie 7]

Both Draper and Rafalski have been ruled out for Game 4.

My opinion?

Not lookin' like they'll be back for Game 5, either.

The Wings are gonna have to do this without them.

They need to concentrate on who IS playing, who IS in the line-up, rather than on who ISN'T.

Those who are sidelined have ZERO CHANCE of helping them Win Game 4. Focus on those who CAN. This is the trap they fell into in 2007.....

"Things will pick up when Schneider comes back...."

Phooey. There is no tomorrow.

Drapes and Raf are DEAD to the Team for Game 4, and probably Game 5, too.

Move on without them.

Focus. Execute. Make it happen.

Yes I agree, we still have enough tools playing now to get the job done, we merely need to change our work ethic line combos and execution to win the series. However, IF the team COULD be IMPROVED with ADDITIONS from OUTSIDE, then why not? You cant be afraid to mix things up when they are not working. Look at last year with Hudler on the fourth line in the playoffs, he made it semi dangerous and helped it score. Lieno can dot he same thing this year, similar to what he did in this year with Drapes and Maltby during the regular season.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

Has anyone else notice that Babcock don't get mad that easy? Like I mean, in press conference he don't seem to get mad about things, he keeps his cool. He has the same tone the whole time, he also seems like a quiet guy. Anyone else notice this?

[Opie 308]

I would go like this, however I am not a hockey coach let alone one of Babs' standing:

Hossa, Dats, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Stuart make Ana Match up against this line

Then

Mule, Cleary, Flip, Lids, Ericsson very responsible defensive line to match up with Ana line 1.

Hudler, Helm, Holmer/Leino line 3

Maltby, Kopecky, Sammy/Holmer line 4

D-pairing 3 Lebda Cheli

My reasons.

1. Holmstrom is actually (IMO) helping the ducks, all they want is bodies in front of Hiller and then let Hiller take up as much net as he can and then clear the net. What the Wings need now is driving to the net not standing in front of it, quick flashes through Hiller's vision, and the team needs to pass across the crease find an open guy on the opposite side of the net, wait for Hiller to over commit (as is his tendency, hence rebound control issues) and look for the open net or guy.

2. Detroit needs an offensive line that Ana is afraid of, right now Marchant's line is handling Dats line because Holmer is out of place, I have never seen him look so nervous with puck. I have seen him multiple times with the puck on his stick, forehand, backhand, forehand, backhand all within 3 seconds, all while standing still in the corner and no one near him. The top line right now needs to be a bigger threat.

3. I put Stuart and Kronwall with the first pairing because Lids and Ericsson will be matched up with Getzlaf's line.

4. ANA is short D-men, even if Wis is healthy they only really play 5 guys. Make them play D, tire them out in their zone. Easier said than done.

5.As much of a Sammy supporter as I have been, both He and Holmer are at a loss against a team like Ana, well maybe loss is the wrong word. Ana wants Sammy to shoot all the time, they want everyone to shoot all of the time,e specially once they are set up in their little nest around the net, he is feeding into their plan, same with Holmer he is creating another blocker in front of Hiller not a screen. Hiller doesn't care if he sees the puck 100 % clean, if he knows where the shot is coming from he will make himself big at that angle. Holmer is acting as another ANA D man, why do you think they decided to leave him alone at the net last game!

EDIT: I would switch Sammy or Holmer for Leino for this series only, the skill set the two provide is counter productive for this series.

Just my $0.02

Edited May 7, 2009 by Opie

[Outsider 42]

Has anyone else notice that Babcock don't get mad that easy? Like I mean, in press conference he don't seem to get mad about things, he keeps his cool. He has the same tone the whole time, he also seems like a quiet guy. Anyone else notice this?

Here's something I'm finding more and more discouraging every day.....(Game days AND Off days):

In press conferences and interviews, there has been a complete role reversal.

Carlyle sounds and carries himself EXACTLY the way Babs has for the past 5 Series. And Babs is looking AND sounding like EVERY coach who's faced the Wings over the past 5 Series.

Same for the Players.

The Ducks sound JUST like the Wings have sounded over the past 5 Series. "They're a good Team. But so are we. We just have to continue to do what we're doing, and we'll continue to be successful."

The Wings Players?

"We just have to continue to work hard, and eventually, we'll break through. Hopefully, we can wear them down."

Very, VERY discouraging to me....

[Red4wings4life 0]

Memo to Mike Babcock, when the team is struggling to generate actual goals, shuffle the lines up just a little bit. Move Holmstrom off the top line and put Franzen in there with Dats and Hossa. Shake things up just a little bit.

And of course the big one, don't dress Chelios anymore.

Mike babcock is a great coach, I would not question his coaching.... That is like you questioning Holland as the GM. Babcock can only do so much, its up to the guys on the ice to produce. Its all about the players.

You did not expect the wings to go 16 and 0 in the playoffs did you?

[Outsider 42]

Mike babcock is a great coach, I would not question his coaching.... That is like you questioning Holland as the GM. Babcock can only do so much, its up to the guys on the ice to produce. Its all about the players.

You did not expect the wings to go 16 and 0 in the playoffs did you?

Of course not.

Didn't expect them to be completely stifled, as well as OUTPLAYED, (it has to be said), by a Team with discipline issues, only ONE real scoring line, a bunch of checkers, and an average goaltender who can't stop 5-hole shots and pops out rebounds like a Pez dispenser.

And yet, somehow, that's exactly what's happening...

[Red4wings4life 0]

Of course not.

Didn't expect them to be completely stifled, as well as OUTPLAYED, (it has to be said), by a Team with discipline issues, only ONE real scoring line, a bunch of checkers, and an average goaltender who can't stop 5-hole shots and pops out rebounds like a Pez dispenser.

And yet, somehow, that's exactly what's happening...

I expected the ducks to give them a good run of there money. I honestly think it will go all 7 games.

The goaltender is alot better then you are giving him credit for. He is solid.

Your right the wings have been out played, guess what that is on the players not the coach, the coach can only do so much, its up to the guys on the ice. These are professional hockey players, they know what they have to do, the coach only sets up the lines and a gameplay, the players have to play.

Right now the Wings look to be trying to play the Ducks game and that will not work. We have not looked that great in the 2nd round, even game one was sloppy. Have to give the Ducks credit, they are making it hard for the Wings to have a good clean break out.

[Outsider 42]

I expected the ducks to give them a good run of there money. I honestly think it will go all 7 games.

The goaltender is alot better then you are giving him credit for. He is solid.

Your right the wings have been out played, guess what that is on the players not the coach, the coach can only do so much, its up to the guys on the ice. These are professional hockey players, they know what they have to do, the coach only sets up the lines and a gameplay, the players have to play.

Right now the Wings look to be trying to play the Ducks game and that will not work. We have not looked that great in the 2nd round, even game one was sloppy. Have to give the Ducks credit, they are making it hard for the Wings to have a good clean break out.

I agree with everything you've said. Go back and read my previous posts in this thread, and others.

Yes....Hiller is "solid". But since when has a "solid" goaltender been able to completely shut down the Wings?

It's not Hiller. They're doing this to themselves. And the more harmless shots they take, the more easy stops he makes, the more confident he gets, and the more they begin to belive that it IS him.

[Guest MrSandMan]

Mike babcock is a great coach, I would not question his coaching.... That is like you questioning Holland as the GM. Babcock can only do so much, its up to the guys on the ice to produce. Its all about the players.

You did not expect the wings to go 16 and 0 in the playoffs did you?

yeah, no s*** right. We're down in a series for the first time in 2 years and now fair weather fans are panicking. We could go 16-0 and people will make threads to complain.

Ah well, it makes a lot of different kind of people to make this world go round, right?

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I was not for switching the lines heading into game three, but I feel different about the situation for tonight's game. The Red Wings need something new. Datsyuk and Hossa have to produce offensively tonight or this series is going to be 3-1 Anaheim. I don't know if that means putting the reliable line of Z, Pavel and Homer back together, but we have got to get some offense from some line other than Z, Mule and Cleary.

I really like and appreciate Datsyuk, but he needs to come out in game four and start playing better. I don't want to hear excuses how Hossa brings Datsyuk down. Pavel wouldn't use that as an excuse and neither should we. There were far too many people here who ragged on Z during the regular season saying he couldn't put up numbers without Pavel. Well, it appears Pavel needs Z just as much as the other way around. Our best players have got to play better and quickly.

The Red Wings need a good start tonight and if they don't get that, Babcock better start mixing up the lines before it gets too late. I expect the Red Wings to be well prepared and executing better around Hiller for this game.

Edited May 7, 2009 by GoWings1905

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Mike babcock is a great coach, I would not question his coaching.... That is like you questioning Holland as the GM. Babcock can only do so much, its up to the guys on the ice to produce. Its all about the players.

You did not expect the wings to go 16 and 0 in the playoffs did you?

1. Holland has been the best GM in the NHL for a decade, and will go down in history as one of the best all time. You're insinuating that Mike Babcock is the 2nd coming of Scotty Bowman here.

2. Babcock can only do so much? Yeah, well one of the things he CAN do is tinker with his lines. Like Bylsma did when Malkin was slumping. Like Carlyle did when Ryan was slumping.

3. Since when is a request for some changes after losing 2 straight games to a team with half our offensive power equivalent to expecting us to go 16-0? Maybe you didnt notice, but we're two games shy of being on the golf course having BARELY pulled off the first win in this series to boot.

[Jake Ryan 1]

THIS IS ALL I WANT in game 4:

Pretend the net has 9 blocks, and the top row is 1-3, the middle row is 4-6, and the bottom row is 7-9. For the love of GOD, could the Wings NOT shoot the puck at 1,2,4, and 5?? That's all I ask. Anywhere low or to the blocker side, and I can deal with the outcome of the game. But if I have to see Marian Hossa take 15 shots at Hiller and have 15 of them end up in his chest or glove in game 4, I'm going to put the blame on Babcock for this CRAP we are seeing. I'd rather the Wings take 5-10 GOOD shoots that actually have a chance to score every period than 10-15 that the goalie considers catching practice. They are trying their 2007 strategy on Hiller, and I don't have any idea why? Is 3 games of it not enough to see that it is completely ineffective? The Wings are scoring when there are players criss-crossing and pucks coming from behind the net and off of low rebounds. They are NOT scoring on 35 foot wrist shots to Hiller's glove side. Someone go and get Hossa a right handed stick to use for game 4 so there's no chance of him wasting the Wings' and Wings fans' time anymore.

[Red4wings4life 0]

1. Holland has been the best GM in the NHL for a decade, and will go down in history as one of the best all time. You're insinuating that Mike Babcock is the 2nd coming of Scotty Bowman here.

2. Babcock can only do so much? Yeah, well one of the things he CAN do is tinker with his lines. Like Bylsma did when Malkin was slumping. Like Carlyle did when Ryan was slumping.

3. Since when is a request for some changes after losing 2 straight games to a team with half our offensive power equivalent to expecting us to go 16-0? Maybe you didnt notice, but we're two games shy of being on the golf course having BARELY pulled off the first win in this series to boot.

Again the coach cannot play the game for the players. The players are responsible for not producing, not the coach. The lines have been for the most part the same all year, why change it up now. The players are not playing with the emotion they need to, the Ducks are out working the Wings, winning the battles along the boards. All the little things. The little things are what win hockey games.

How about the star players on the roster start playing like star player? Why are they losing so many battles along the boards? Why are we rushing shots on the power play? Why are we not creating more traffic

The PLAYERS need to start PLAYING Red Wing hockey again. We have not seen Red Wing hockey since round 1.

How can you question a coach that got us a cup last year? Have faith in your team and your coach, change lines is not always the right thing to do, it works sometimes sure.

[Outsider 42]

yeah, no s*** right. We're down in a series for the first time in 2 years and now fair weather fans are panicking. We could go 16-0 and people will make threads to complain.

Ah well, it makes a lot of different kind of people to make this world go round, right?

I don't think that's it at all, MrSandMan.

I think it's much more than that, and more than a little justified.

Let's bear a few things in mind:

The Wings have shown not much, (even in their one Win this Series), to give us too much confidence that they'll be able to net much better results than those they've netted thus far. They look tired, frustrated, outworked, overmatched, and (dare I say it), "scared". They're disengaged. And I've seen no indication that things are likely to change.

Why?

Because I'm watching the Wings and their Coach in interviews and photos. They look grim-faced. They sound terse. They look and sound, (regardless of the WORDS they choose to use), JUST LIKE the opponents/opposing Head Coaches of EVERY TEAM they've faced over the past five Play Off Series.

And their opponents?

They're laughing, loose, cracking wise, sitting there with a downright nasty smirk on their faces, while almost literally making throat slitting gestures and chuckling to each other.....winkwink....nodnod.....

Any why? Well, let's face it....

This is not the first time this has happened, against this very Team.

Hell....it's not even the SECOND time it's happened, against this very Team.

This is the THIRD TIME it's happened. And in eerily similar fashion/pattern.

Ya know how it is between the Wings and the Blues?

It doesn't really matter how many Players the Wings have out with injury, or how poorly they're playing at the time. It doesn't really matter how HOT the Blues happen to be, or how much they've improved.

It's the Blues! And the Wings OWN the Blues. The Wings know it. The Blues know it. The Wings are so far in the Blues heads, (regardless of HOW many times they turn over the roster), that they know what the Blues players want for dinner before the Blues players themselves know.

I'm not saying that this is unequivocally the case, that the Ducks ARE in the Wings heads....that they DO "own" them.

What I'm saying is that with every Game the Wings choke away by REFUSING to show up, by gripping their sticks too tight, by playing tentative, while the scumbag Ducks take it to them, and have their way, and then confidently SMIRK about it afterward....

The more real that possibility becomes.

And THAT is why some folks, (myself included, admittedly), are "freaking out".

[Red4wings4life 0]

I don't think that's it at all, MrSandMan.

I think it's much more than that, and more than a little justified.

Let's bear a few things in mind:

The Wings have shown not much, (even in their one Win this Series), to give us too much confidence that they'll be able to net much better results than those they've netted thus far. They look tired, frustrated, outworked, overmatched, and (dare I say it), "scared". They're disengaged. And I've seen no indication that things are likely to change.

Why?

Because I'm watching the Wings and their Coach in interviews and photos. They look grim-faced. They sound terse. They look and sound, (regardless of the WORDS they choose to use), JUST LIKE the opponents/opposing Head Coaches of EVERY TEAM they've faced over the past five Play Off Series.

And their opponents?

They're laughing, loose, cracking wise, sitting there with a downright nasty smirk on their faces, while almost literally making throat slitting gestures and chuckling to each other.....winkwink....nodnod.....

Any why? Well, let's face it....

This is not the first time this has happened, against this very Team.

Hell....it's not even the SECOND time it's happened, against this very Team.

This is the THIRD TIME it's happened. And in eerily similar fashion/pattern.

Ya know how it is between the Wings and the Blues?

It doesn't really matter how many Players the Wings have out with injury, or how poorly they're playing at the time. It doesn't really matter how HOT the Blues happen to be, or how much they've improved.

It's the Blues! And the Wings OWN the Blues. The Wings know it. The Blues know it. The Wings are so far in the Blues heads, (regardless of HOW many times they turn over the roster), that they know what the Blues players want for dinner before the Blues players themselves know.

I'm not saying that this is unequivocally the case, that the Ducks ARE in the Wings heads....that they DO "own" them.

What I'm saying is that with every Game the Wings choke away by REFUSING to show up, by gripping their sticks too tight, by playing tentative, while the scumbag Ducks take it to them, and have their way, and then confidently SMIRK about it afterward....

The more real that possibility becomes.

And THAT is why some folks, (myself included, admittedly), are "freaking out".

Don't Freak out until we lose 4 games. Its not the best of 3 or the best of 5. Its the best of 7.

I have faith in this team, sure the Ducks beat us before and we have beat them before. If the Wings fail to show up and play the way we all know they can play, then they will be golfing early this year.

Nothing us fans can control, no need to freak out, just enjoy the ride, that is what its all about.

Sure it will suck if they lose but hey that is Hockey, if you don't show up to play, you lose, no matter how much talent you put on the ice.

[Guest MrSandMan]

I don't think that's it at all, MrSandMan.

I think it's much more than that, and more than a little justified.

Let's bear a few things in mind:

The Wings have shown not much, (even in their one Win this Series), to give us too much confidence that they'll be able to net much better results than those they've netted thus far. They look tired, frustrated, outworked, overmatched, and (dare I say it), "scared". They're disengaged. And I've seen no indication that things are likely to change.

Why?

Because I'm watching the Wings and their Coach in interviews and photos. They look grim-faced. They sound terse. They look and sound, (regardless of the WORDS they choose to use), JUST LIKE the opponents/opposing Head Coaches of EVERY TEAM they've faced over the past five Play Off Series.

And their opponents?

They're laughing, loose, cracking wise, sitting there with a downright nasty smirk on their faces, while almost literally making throat slitting gestures and chuckling to each other.....winkwink....nodnod.....

Any why? Well, let's face it....

This is not the first time this has happened, against this very Team.

Hell....it's not even the SECOND time it's happened, against this very Team.

This is the THIRD TIME it's happened. And in eerily similar fashion/pattern.

Ya know how it is between the Wings and the Blues?

It doesn't really matter how many Players the Wings have out with injury, or how poorly they're playing at the time. It doesn't really matter how HOT the Blues happen to be, or how much they've improved.

It's the Blues! And the Wings OWN the Blues. The Wings know it. The Blues know it. The Wings are so far in the Blues heads, (regardless of HOW many times they turn over the roster), that they know what the Blues players want for dinner before the Blues players themselves know.

I'm not saying that this is unequivocally the case, that the Ducks ARE in the Wings heads....that they DO "own" them.

What I'm saying is that with every Game the Wings choke away by REFUSING to show up, by gripping their sticks too tight, by playing tentative, while the scumbag Ducks take it to them, and have their way, and then confidently SMIRK about it afterward....

The more real that possibility becomes.

And THAT is why some folks, (myself included, admittedly), are "freaking out".

I see the games differently. I see to hard battling teams that are going head to head and the winner of each game get's that lucky break.

A "scared" team doesn't outhit their opponent.

A "scared" team doesn't perversely outshoot their opponent.

A "scared" team doesn't doesn't score clutch goals in the dying seconds (consistently).

Wings are playing a good team, but Detroit has been the better team this series, the scoreboard just doesn't reflect that. I'd bet my retirement that if that bad call non-goal was allowed, Detroit would be up 2-1 right now. But hey, that's the luck of the draw. But to say Detroit is "scared" or "in their heads" is just plain wrong.

Detroit scored nearly as many goals on Hiller in 3 games than SJ could do in 5 games. Is that a team that's "scared"?

This series will be won or loss by a few bad calls and few bad bounces. Unfortunately for Detroit, that's how every game this series has been chosen. I use the word "chosen" because these teams didn't win or lose by themselves, it took a few bad calls for this series to be 2-1 right now.

Even if Detroit loses tonight's game they can still win 3 in a row. Though I'd like to see Detroit not get put in that situation, it would be a nice notch on their belt to be one of the rare teams to come back to win a series down 3-1.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Again the coach cannot play the game for the players. The players are responsible for not producing, not the coach. The lines have been for the most part the same all year, why change it up now. The players are not playing with the emotion they need to, the Ducks are out working the Wings, winning the battles along the boards. All the little things. The little things are what win hockey games.

How about the star players on the roster start playing like star player? Why are they losing so many battles along the boards? Why are we rushing shots on the power play? Why are we not creating more traffic

The PLAYERS need to start PLAYING Red Wing hockey again. We have not seen Red Wing hockey since round 1.

How can you question a coach that got us a cup last year? Have faith in your team and your coach, change lines is not always the right thing to do, it works sometimes sure.

You're right. Its only ever about the players. Never who their linemates are. And no, the lines we have now have NOT been the same "pretty much all year". We've gone through this in another thread. Datsyuk spent 65% of his ESTOI this season on a line withOUT Hossa. Those are actual statistics.

Remind me again how it is that if you change the lines, you can't ever change them back.