Duhatschek: Wings will successfully re-sign Hossa

[talex 1]

Seriously, if we re-sign Hossa for Franzen money, who will we realistically have to let go?

I can't handle losing Hudler as he'll put up 70 points with someone next season. And Samuelsson comes to play every single time the playoffs roll around.

I agree I would hate to see them go, but there is only so much we can pay them as well and if you listen to the announcers, there are teams looking at these 2 in particular. In the case of Huds it will be harder for a team to pick him away, but some team may very well offer him more than the Wings would realistically be able to match. I think Sammy gets an offer the Wings will not be able to match and I see him as most likely to move on, sure there could be a suprise and w/o Hossa obviously there would be an off chance they could keep both, but I think it is highly unlikely.

Again we will have a great team no matter what happens during the off season then the following season we should have some money to fill gaps, knowing this I just cannot see how you let Hossa walk if he is willing to accept a Mule size contract, Z or Lids numbers the Wings cannot do, so at a Mule like rate he is a no brainer even if he just leads the team in scoring getting us to the Playoffs and Mule takes it from there.

It will be an intersting off season this year for sure, almost as fun as watching the team play...

[Konnan511 1,736]

No-trade clauses notwithstanding, trading one of Danny Cleary (who's trade value at the end of this playoff year will never be higher) or Brian Rafalski would easily free up room for Hossa.

Cleary and Rafalski are very good players, but Hossa is better than either ... and Cleary is a personal favorite.

There's also the possibilty of retirement from the likes of Draper, Holmstrom and/or Maltby ... all of whom are under contract for next season.

Don't want to see anyone leave, but a Hossa re-signing requires some collateral loss ... that's just the way it is.

Why would you want to get rid of one of the guys that has helped carry the Wings offensively and with the best +/-? Also, why would you want to trade our number 2 D-Man as well, that makes no sense, D-Men are always more important than a forward. I would rather lose Maltby and Draper to retirement and Koko and Sammy to FA than get rid of either one of those guys you mentioned.

Who would be our number 2 D-man if we got rid of Rafalski? Kronners, no. Stuart, no, Big Rig, no. Lebda, no. Chelios, no. Kindl, no. Lilja, no. We need a legit number 2 D-man.

[stillwater 186]

I don't see them trading anyone either ... but if you're going to sign Hossa, someone (or two) has to be dealt, otherwise the math doesn't add up.

I can't see them trading a 25-year old Filppula.

Purely from an age standpoint, Rafalski, Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom and Lilja are the pieces you could most likely do without, and in Rafalski's case, get a decent enough return.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I don't see them trading either. If anyone would be going it would probably be Flip which would free up 3.1 but he has been playing well as of the playoffs so I doubt that will happen. Again I do not see why anyone would have to go that will not probably go anyways. I think we field a good team next year no matter what happens, but with the timing of some players likely retiring next year or taking much smaller contracts I think you weather the storm next year with a still very competitive team and then fill gaps with the free'd up salary in 2011.

LOL sorry, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Like I said during the offseason, Flip isn't going anywhere anytime. You don't trade a guy who ALWAYS shows up during the playoffs and just keeps getting better and better.

[stillwater 186]

Why would you want to get rid of one of the guys that has helped carry the Wings offensively and with the best +/-? Also, why would you want to trade our number 2 D-Man as well, that makes no sense, D-Men are always more important than a forward. I would rather lose Maltby and Draper to retirement and Koko and Sammy to FA than get rid of either one of those guys you mentioned.

Who would be our number 2 D-man if we got rid of Rafalski? Kronners, no. Stuart, no, Big Rig, no. Lebda, no. Chelios, no. Kindl, no. Lilja, no. We need a legit number 2 D-man.

I didn't say "I want to get rid of these guys". The economics dictate that if you're going to give Hossa a cap-hit contact like Franzen's ($4 million) then someone has to go.

Stuart or Kronnwall could replace Rafalski pretty nicely, IMO. Who was your #2 D-man for the last 2 victories?

Look, the idea of the thread topic, is a notion discussed by Eric D of the Hockey News that Hossa and the Wings have a verbal agreement on a Franzen-esque contract. If that is in fact true, and it may not be, then I'm just laying out possibilities of trading players the Wings could most do without ... because someone has to go, sorry.

Edited May 28, 2009 by stillwater

[flip 5]

http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2009/05..._preparing.html

The cap could drop by as much as $2.5 million for the 2009-10 season from its current $56.7 million figure, according to NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly. Although Daly couldn't say, it is not inconceivable that the figure could fall to $50 million for the 2010-11 season.

Some cutting and belt tightening will have to be done by some, if not all. Hossa will not play for $2M/year.

I don't understand how the cap can drop when the league experienced record revenues this year. One is a percentage of the other, no? Attendance was up, ticket prices were up, TV ratings were up (which means ad prices/revenues were up). I'm not trying to contradict what you've said, but I don't understand the mechanics of it entirely.

[stillwater 186]

On many NHL rosters Stewie, & Nick Jr would be a #2 Dman...Only question is though who would replace Rafalski, & his right-handed shot at even strength, or on the pp (especially if Sammy goes as well)?

Personally I agree with Konnan511 - can never have too many top-notch Dmen, & would much rather see Rafalski stay.

You're spot on about the PP, but you'd honestly rather have Rafalski over Hossa, if it came down to it, given that the suggestion is Hossa would sign for less money than Rafalski is currently being paid? Keep in mind that Rafalski is 6-years older than Hossa.

[flip 5]

Do you have any hard evidence?

If the league did in fact have another successful year concerning revenue - then the cap should either stay the same, or go up - however once again do you have any proof of this since from what little I've heard/read it seems as though there'll be a drop in the cap for the next few years.

Gary Bettman said that the league experienced record revenues. I have no reason to doubt his word.

[stillwater 186]

Gary Bettman said that the league experienced record revenues. I have no reason to doubt his word.

Was that sarcasm? I hope so.

[talex 1]

LOL sorry, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Like I said during the offseason, Flip isn't going anywhere anytime. You don't trade a guy who ALWAYS shows up during the playoffs and just keeps getting better and better.

I never said they were going to, what I said was he is the only guy making significant money w/o a no trade clause and as a assist guy he a great, shooting/scoring is another story but as long as we can keep a Franzen, Hossa type scorer with him I would not want to see him go so I would not get my panties in a bunch of I were you. Clearly some players will be leaving, who they are is up in the air. My main points are that some will be going regardless of what the Wings do with Hossa and given that and the coming freeing of space I see no reason why an all out effort to resign the guy would not be priority.

[wingsdiehard13 33]

this is the 2008 offer sheet breakdown. it should be similar to 2009s since the cap should be about the same.

_,863,156 or less ......... none

_,863,157 - 1,307,811 ..... 3rd round pick

1,307,812 - 2,615,623 ..... 2nd round pick

2,615,624 - 3,923,434 ..... 1st and 3rd etc.

3,923,435 - 5,231,246 ..... 1st, 2nd and 3rd

5,231,247 - 6,539,061 ..... 1st x2, 2nd & 3rd

6,539,062 or more ......... 1st x4

where does hudler fall? 1.3-2.6 range?

if he signs for 1.7 or less, match it. anything more and take the 2nd rounder and keep hossa.

He would more than likely fall in the 2.6-3.9 range, IMO, especially if he gets an offer sheet.

What about all those rumors about Roy and the Avs? Rumors are simply that, rumors. Hossa has stated he'd like to sign long term here, which opened the flood-gates for the rumors to begin.

What about the rumors about Roy? They offered him the GM and the head coach position. He turned it down.

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

I think Mr Illitch sets the example. It's not the team the players like, it's the franchise.

Um, what? Same thing.

Unless you're saying that it's not the logo and uni colors that the players like, it's the organization.

[stillwater 186]

The other issue is, if you let Hossa walk, you get nothing in return, whereas, if you can get Rafalski to agree to a trade, you get something of value in return.

Once again, I'm not suggesting or hoping Rafalski is traded, I'm just trying to stay within the thread title and the repercussions of re-signing Hossa.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Um, what? Same thing.

Unless you're saying that it's not the logo and uni colors that the players like, it's the organization.

Maybe he means it's not the team of players but the organization?

[wingsdiehard13 33]

The other issue is, if you let Hossa walk, you get nothing in return, whereas, if you can get Rafalski to agree to a trade, you get something of value in return.

Once again, I'm not suggesting or hoping Rafalski is traded, I'm just trying to stay within the thread title and the repercussions of re-signing Hossa.

There is no way Rafalski will be traded, and if he was traded it would be a huge mistake. He will become extremly valuable once Lidstrom retires.

[stillwater 186]

We have to wait until Lidstrom retires for Rafalski to be valuable? Not only will he be "valuable", he'll be really old too. Again, I'm not advocating a Rafalski trade, just trying to find a way to fit everyone within the cap ... including Hossa, as the threadtitle suggests.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I never said they were going to, what I said was he is the only guy making significant money w/o a no trade clause and as a assist guy he a great, shooting/scoring is another story but as long as we can keep a Franzen, Hossa type scorer with him I would not want to see him go so I would not get my panties in a bunch of I were you. Clearly some players will be leaving, who they are is up in the air. My main points are that some will be going regardless of what the Wings do with Hossa and given that and the coming freeing of space I see no reason why an all out effort to resign the guy would not be priority.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out you don't trade someone who has a history of showing up in the playoffs and performing exceptionally well for a player who is suppose to be arental and will hinder our ability to re-sign vital players in the furtue and keep the depth of the team..

[wingsdiehard13 33]

We have to wait until Lidstrom retires for Rafalski to be valuable? Not only will he be "valuable", he'll be really old too. Again, I'm not advocating a Rafalski trade, just trying to find a way to fit everyone within the cap ... including Hossa, as the threadtitle suggests.

Read my post again. I said he would become extremly valuable when Lidstrom retires. Obviously he is already valuable. Trading Rafalski to keep Hossa is pointless. We would have around 20 million tied up in 4 forwards and less than that in our entire D corps.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

Hossa sucks.

That is all.

[wingsdiehard13 33]

Hossa sucks.

That is all.

Yes, he really sucked when he led the Pens to the finals last year

[flip 5]

Was that sarcasm? I hope so.

Spare me the "hurr durr Gary Bettman is always wrong 100% of the time and has games fixed" bulls***.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

Yes, he really sucked when he led the Pens to the finals last year

That was back when he didn't suck.

Now -- Benedict Hossa sucks the big one.

Hope that clears things up.

[Mors 201]

That was back when he didn't suck.

Now -- Benedict Hossa sucks the big one.

Hope that clears things up.

Yea, 'cause the long lasting bonds Hossa developed in Pittsburgh playing in ~30 games with them makes him a traitor for leaving

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

The way I see it, Holland has 2 choices here. Hossa or Hudler. Samuelsson is gone no matter what as some team will offer him too much money to refuse. Seeing as how Holland likes to slowly develop his prospects, Abdelkader is likely going to play in Grand Rapids next season but be the first call-up when injuries occur. Lilja will have to be traded simply because he makes more than Lebda and Meech do. I'd much rather the Wings keep all their players but we all know this is not realistic. So the goal needs to be...ice the same team as much as possible. I see Leino replacing Hudler and Helm replacing Samuelsson. I'd like to see Dats and Hank re-united on the first line. I'd like to see Fl”p centre the 2nd line with Mule and Hossa. I am guessing Hossa signs a Cap friendly deal like Franzen did (Eric Duhatshek seems to think so and he is usually bang on). $5 mil Cap hit on a long term deal is what I am hoping for. Kopecky is kept because he is dirt cheap. So these are my proposed lines for next year (for the record I hate losing Hudler and Samuelsson).

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Hossa

Leino-Helm-Cleary

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lebda-Ericsson

Meech

Osgood-Howard

Hudler is going to have to be either traded or signed by another team via an offer sheet. Meech can play both defense and forward so maybe Holland goes with a 21 man roster. Abdelkader is there in Grand Rapids if need be. So is Kindl. Conklin is gone and so too is Chelios. I go back and forth with it. Seeing guys like Hudler and Samuelsson step up and score some big goals in these playoffs makes me think maybe we should let Hossa go. But when you have a star player in his prime willing to take LESS money to stay here on a long term deal, I think you have to keep him. Hudler and Sammy can be replaced more easily than Hossa can. Plus we have the guys like Leino and Helm we can replace them with. Both these guys spent most of the season in Grand Rapids before they were called up.

I think when the Cap drops after next summer, Lidstrom will take a pay cut to get us under. Abdelkader replaces Maltby eventually. Holland has done a great job managing the Cap. If he can keep Hossa and only lose Hudler and Samuelsson then I will be happy.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Hatethedrake!

[flip 5]

The thing about Hudler is that he only excels to the degree he does because he's a third line player, and he doesn't play against other teams' top players. Even Babcock conceded this in an interview. He's just not big enough to earn a regular shift on a team's top two lines. Obviously he's a great fit in Detroit where he can play on the third line and the second powerplay unit, but you just can't justify paying him a ton of money for that.