wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 This is if, and only if we can convince Rafalski to waive his no trade clause. But why not try to do something like this if he does? The rumored deal is Pronger for Johnson and a first. I would be willing to trade Rafalski and a first for Jack Johnson. We would clear about four million dollars and get younger in the process. We would be able to easily re-sign Marian Hossa. Jack Johnson is an RFA next season and we would be willing to give him a raise being that Homer and Maltby are going to be gone and also, Lidstrom will likely take a significant paycut. Win Win Win Win. I hope Holland and Rafalski would be willing to do something like this. Rafalski is horrible defensively. And we'd be getting tougher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redwingsfan18 1 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Good logic, I'd make the trade, but you know it ain't happening. Plus Raffy isn't going to wave his NTC to go from Detroit to LA. You'd have to be a moron to want to leave a Cup Champion for the Kings.. Wayne who?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I didn't RTFA, but why would LA consider Raffi over Pronger? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I didn't RTFA, but why would LA consider Raffi over Pronger? Maybe if Anaheim doesnt trade them there? But Redwingsfan18, raises a good point. If you're Brian Rafalski and Ken Holland comes up to you and says, we want you to waive your no trade clause.. Under any condition, would he waive it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I didn't RTFA, but why would LA consider Raffi over Pronger? Also, under this scenerio, LA would get to keep a top 10 pick if they dont do the Anaheim trade, and gain a first if they do this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Why the hell would Rafalski be gotten rid of? He's our second best defenseman and we NEED that sort of depth. He was under par in the finals beacuse he was freaking falling apart, cut the guy some slack. Man, maybe I need to take a break from this place until after the roster moves are made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Why the hell would Rafalski be gotten rid of? He's our second best defenseman and we NEED that sort of depth. He was under par in the finals beacuse he was freaking falling apart, cut the guy some slack. Man, maybe I need to take a break from this place until after the roster moves are made. You are misunderstanding the point of my post. I do think Rafalski is a legitimate #2 defenseman in the NHL. The fact of the matter is, he makes 6 million perseason and if we want Hossa (which i do), we have to get Rafalski or Stuart to waive their no trade clause. Also, Id much rather have Hossa and a guy like Jack Johnson over Rafalski at the same or very similar cap hit. Edited June 16, 2009 by wingsownnhl43 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FedorovMan91 1 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Why get rid of Rafalski? His offensive skill is the top level in the league but he is a defensive liability. Moreover, he is 6 million defense; I would say this is overpaid. He is our second best D-man. The fact is he has NTC so he would not be traded unless he has some problem in the locker rrom or Kenny highly forces him to move Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CenterIce 83 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Outside of the trading Rafalski issue (which I think is idiotic), why would you want Jack Johnson. He hasn't shown he can stay healthy for long, and he got himself traded from Carolina and possibly LA. What does that say about his attitude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Outside of the trading Rafalski issue (which I think is idiotic), why would you want Jack Johnson. He hasn't shown he can stay healthy for long, and he got himself traded from Carolina and possibly LA. What does that say about his attitude. Well not specifically Johnson. I said in the original post, Why not try something like this? Just curious. What about having Hossa and a young defenseman at the same cap number as Rafalski is idiotic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I like our defensive core how it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Well not specifically Johnson. I said in the original post, Why not try something like this? Just curious. What about having Hossa and a young defenseman at the same cap number as Rafalski is idiotic? Because we need an excellent defense corps to stand up against huge offensive powerhouses we'll have to face. Chicago, Pittsburgh, they all have excellent offense that's only maturing. Pulling a world class defenseman in favor of a kid who may or may not be any good is dumb. Especially because we can keep Hossa withuot losing Rafalski. Losing Rafalski when we stand a good shot at resigning Hossa anyways just doesn't make any sense and makes the team worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Because we need an excellent defense corps to stand up against huge offensive powerhouses we'll have to face. Chicago, Pittsburgh, they all have excellent offense that's only maturing. Pulling a world class defenseman in favor of a kid who may or may not be any good is dumb. Especially because we can keep Hossa withuot losing Rafalski. Losing Rafalski when we stand a good shot at resigning Hossa anyways just doesn't make any sense and makes the team worse. This is where your argument falls short. Rafalski is a world class defenseman because of his offensive abilities as well as his ability on the powerplay. He is actually below average defensively. Acquiring a young stay at home defenseman would only help us against those growing offenses according to your argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CenterIce 83 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Well not specifically Johnson. I said in the original post, Why not try something like this? Just curious. What about having Hossa and a young defenseman at the same cap number as Rafalski is idiotic? Rafalski is a three time Stanley Cup champion who will more than likely be Detroit's number one defenseman, when Lidstrom retires. If you trade him, you have to hope that some where soon, you could find a top 2 or 3 defenseman to pick up in free agency. Right now Detroit has the following depth (assuming Chelios leaves): Lidstrom Raflaski Kronwall Stuart Ericsson Lilja Lebda Meech Let's say Lidstrom retires and you trade Rafalski for a young defenseman: Kronwall Stuart Ericsson Lilja Lebda Meech unknown defenseman Outside of Stuart, where is the real experience there? Kronwall just came into his own last year, so he is still young in the experience department. You would still end up having to pick up a 2 or 3 defensemen in free agency, who would more than likely command Rafalski's current price, so you might as well go with what you have. I don't understand this whole mass of people that think we should get rid of Rafalski. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Rafalski is a three time Stanley Cup champion who will more than likely be Detroit's number one defenseman, when Lidstrom retires. If you trade him, you have to hope that some where soon, you could find a top 2 or 3 defenseman to pick up in free agency. Right now Detroit has the following depth (assuming Chelios leaves): Lidstrom Raflaski Kronwall Stuart Ericsson Lilja Lebda Meech Let's say Lidstrom retires and you trade Rafalski for a young defenseman: Kronwall Stuart Ericsson Lilja Lebda Meech unknown defenseman Outside of Stuart, where is the real experience there? Kronwall just came into his own last year, so he is still young in the experience department. You would still end up having to pick up a 2 or 3 defensemen in free agency, who would more than likely command Rafalski's current price, so you might as well go with what you have. I don't understand this whole mass of people that think we should get rid of Rafalski. Well, lets say, just for sake of argument, the Red Wings do what I want them to do. Rafalsk is traded to LA for Jack Johnson. We Re-Sign Hossa for about 5 million per. We Buy-Out Holmstrom (saves 1.5), Sign Ian Laperriere for 1.2. Cleary-Datsyuk-Zetterberg Franzen-Filppula-Hossa Leino-Helm-Laperriere Maltby-Draper-Kopecky Meech Lidstrom-Johnson Stuart-Kronwall Ericcson-Lilja Lebda Osgood Conkilin 221,013 under the cap OK, now Lidstrom, who has said he wants to play as long as he is healthy enough to play, comes back for 3 million per. Holmstrom, Maltby are fully off the books. We re-sign Jack Johnson for around 3 million per. Cleary-Datsyuk-Zetterberg Franzen-Filppula-Hossa Leino-Helm-Laperriere Abdelkader-Draper- OPEN SPOT OPEN SPOT Lidstrom-Johnson Kronwall-Stuart Ericcson-OPEN SPOT OPEN SPOT Osgood Conklin 18 players signed, 4 spots open.... 8.2 million in cap room. We could fill out the roster averaging 2 million per player. Trading Rafalski overpaid salary is fiscally responsible in the cap world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedFX 48 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I like how we were 2 posts away from winning the Cup and all of a sudden everyone wants to tear the core of our team apart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CenterIce 83 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Well, lets say, just for sake of argument, the Red Wings do what I want them to do. Lidstrom-Johnson Stuart-Kronwall Ericcson-Lilja Lebda There is no gaurantee that Lilja will even be able to play next year. Also, it has been shown the last three years in the playoffs that they need defensive depth. If we go with this scenario, your depth really takes a hit. OK, now Lidstrom, who has said he wants to play as long as he is healthy enough to play, comes back for 3 million per. Holmstrom, Maltby are fully off the books. We re-sign Jack Johnson for around 3 million per. Lidstrom-Johnson Kronwall-Stuart Ericcson-OPEN SPOT OPEN SPOT Lidstrom has missed more games in the last two years than in any previous time in his career. He has chronic tendinist in his elbow that could possible require surgery. This could possibly the last contract of his career. Again, you lack depth with this scenario. If Lidstom retires, once you get past Stuart and maybe Kronwall, their would be limited experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CenterIce 83 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I like how we were 2 posts away from winning the Cup and all of a sudden everyone wants to tear the core of our team apart. Make that 3 years in a row with at least making the Conference Finals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I like how we were 2 posts away from winning the Cup and all of a sudden everyone wants to tear the core of our team apart. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Filppula, Franzen, Cleary, Lidstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, Osgood remain. God, 6/6 top six forwards , 3/4 top four defenseman, 1/1 starting goalie remain, I really tore this team apart. Get a clue, dude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Well, lets say, just for sake of argument, the Red Wings do what I want them to do. Rafalsk is traded to LA for Jack Johnson. We Re-Sign Hossa for about 5 million per. We Buy-Out Holmstrom (saves 1.5), Sign Ian Laperriere for 1.2. Cleary-Datsyuk-Zetterberg Franzen-Filppula-Hossa Leino-Helm-Laperriere Maltby-Draper-Kopecky Meech Lidstrom-Johnson Stuart-Kronwall Ericcson-Lilja Lebda Osgood Conkilin 221,013 under the cap OK, now Lidstrom, who has said he wants to play as long as he is healthy enough to play, comes back for 3 million per. Holmstrom, Maltby are fully off the books. We re-sign Jack Johnson for around 3 million per. Cleary-Datsyuk-Zetterberg Franzen-Filppula-Hossa Leino-Helm-Laperriere Abdelkader-Draper- OPEN SPOT OPEN SPOT Lidstrom-Johnson Kronwall-Stuart Ericcson-OPEN SPOT OPEN SPOT Osgood Conklin 18 players signed, 4 spots open.... 8.2 million in cap room. We could fill out the roster averaging 2 million per player. Trading Rafalski overpaid salary is fiscally responsible in the cap world. Thats alot of thinking. For the life of me, why would we sign Lappy for $1.2 when he turned down more from Colorado, PLUS we can have Downey at $500,000 who knocked the snot of Lappy if you recall... How about we attempt to score a high enough draft pick THIS year to get Hedman? Ya ya, I know he is gonna go 1 or 2, but if we're talking about absurd places Rafi would waive a no trade clause, why not package him and a hot prospect to the Island or Tampa? Or maybe trade up high enough to draft Cowen? on a side note, if the Islanders take Hedman, you are gonna have Tampa with BOTH Stamkos AND Tavares!!! Wow! Maybe a new wonder twins? You have our Euro twins, you have Crysby/Malkin, Toews/Kane and then Stamkos/Tavares! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Thats alot of thinking. For the life of me, why would we sign Lappy for $1.2 when he turned down more from Colorado, PLUS we can have Downey at $500,000 who knocked the snot of Lappy if you recall... How about we attempt to score a high enough draft pick THIS year to get Hedman? Ya ya, I know he is gonna go 1 or 2, but if we're talking about absurd places Rafi would waive a no trade clause, why not package him and a hot prospect to the Island or Tampa? Or maybe trade up high enough to draft Cowen? on a side note, if the Islanders take Hedman, you are gonna have Tampa with BOTH Stamkos AND Tavares!!! Wow! Maybe a new wonder twins? You have our Euro twins, you have Crysby/Malkin, Toews/Kane and then Stamkos/Tavares! Maybe its that whole other part where Lappy is actually can hold down a regular roster spot, pot a few points, and plays a damn good PK? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedFX 48 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Filppula, Franzen, Cleary, Lidstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, Osgood remain. God, 6/6 top six forwards , 3/4 top four defenseman, 1/1 starting goalie remain, I really tore this team apart. Get a clue, dude. Easy Tiger, I was including more people than just you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nkuehnl 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 I would totally do this trade if Jack Johnson wasn't terrible in the NHL and didn't have parents as bad as Eric Lindros's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Maybe its that whole other part where Lappy is actually can hold down a regular roster spot, pot a few points, and plays a damn good PK? Yeah a regualr rostor spot on lowley Colorado. 1.2 million is too much to pay for him to be here. Downey would do sufficiant in that role. Give Downey a regular spot and he may get a few points too. I highly doubt Lappy is the answer to our penalty kill problems. McCrimmon needs to be let go and a REAL defensive/special teams coach needs to be hired... For the money Downey is better than Lappy. And Lemaire is better than McCrimmon... Edited June 16, 2009 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Probie 7 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Yeah a regualr rostor spot on lowley Colorado. 1.2 million is too much to pay for him to be here. Downey would do sufficiant in that role. Give Downey a regular spot and he may get a few points too. I highly doubt Lappy is the answer to our penalty kill problems. McCrimmon needs to be let go and a REAL defensive/special teams coach needs to be hired... For the money Downey is better than Lappy. And Lemaire is better than McCrimmon... 100% agreed when it comes to letting McCrimmon go, and finding a better D coach. If it was one thing, besides the lack of motivation, this year that stood out, it was our issues defensively and the detour away from our puck possession style. Why are people talking about Maltby coming back when he brings nothing to the table anymore? I would so much rather have Gator or a younger more physical semi cheap UFA in his spot. Dude is done, and we have been loyal to him, but if you cant make the team and you hurt it when you are on it, you should be cut. His Salary doesnt count if he retires. Ditto for Homer. *****On a side note to all those who want to trade Rafalski, has anyone thought that we have absolutely NOBODY to play the Right Handed Shot on the Power Play??!!! Sammy is on that spot on the 2nd Power Play Unit, and everyone says hes gone too, so, wtf do we do? Power play will be a tad lacking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
