Cap questions,buyouts and retirements

[Zeke 5]

A few questions for all the legal experts on the post lockout NHL:

1) If a player signs after 35,and then retires while under contract,does the salary continue to count against the cap?

2) Can this player be bought out by the team?

3) What is the buyout formula ( 2/3 of the total for twice the length of the contract?)

4) If a player signs before turning 35,and then retires after 35,is there a cap hit?

5)Is there a limit on the number of years you can sign,and rules for a decreasing salary structure as the player ages? (ie sign for 15 years to lower the average cap hit,knowing the player only will play another 5 years?)

That's enough homework for now,its the summer.

[MacK_Attack 108]

A few questions for all the legal experts on the post lockout NHL:

1) If a player signs after 35,and then retires while under contract,does the salary continue to count against the cap?

2) Can this player be bought out by the team?

3) What is the buyout formula ( 2/3 of the total for twice the length of the contract?)

4) If a player signs before turning 35,and then retires after 35,is there a cap hit?

5)Is there a limit on the number of years you can sign,and rules for a decreasing salary structure as the player ages? (ie sign for 15 years to lower the average cap hit,knowing the player only will play another 5 years?)

That's enough homework for now,its the summer.

1) Yes, but only if the player has signed a multi-year deal. (That's as simply as it can be put, there's a little more to it)

2) Yes.

3) Correct, but if you buy-out a player who falls under the "Over 35" criteria, the team does not save cap space. The player is still paid under the buyout formula, but the cap hit stays as if the player were still playing for that team.

4) No.

5) Technically no, but the NHL can void a deal if it feels (and would have to prove) that a team is trying to do that contract to circumvent the salary cap. They originally rejected Rick DiPietro's contract, but relented and opened the flood gates.

Edited June 26, 2009 by MacK_Attack

[Zeke 5]

1) Yes, but only if the player has signed a multi-year deal. (That's as simply as it can be put, there's a little more to it)

2) Yes.

3) Correct, but if you buy-out a player who falls under the "Over 35" criteria, the team does not save cap space. The player is still paid under the buyout forumla, but the cap hit stays as if the player were still playing for that team.

4) No.

5) Technically no, but the NHL can void a deal like if it feels (and like, can prove) that a team is trying to do that contract to circumvent the salary cap. They originally rejected Rick DiPietro's contract, but relented and opened the flood gates.

That's impressive,thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

That's impressive,thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Yes, thanks for the questions and answers!

Hmmmmm, Zeke, your avatar looks very familar, ho long have you had it?

[Zeke 5]

Yes, thanks for the questions and answers!

Hmmmmm, Zeke, your avatar looks very familar, ho long have you had it?

About 3 months,is someone else using it?

[egroen 384]

1) Yes, but only if the player has signed a multi-year deal. (That's as simply as it can be put, there's a little more to it)

2) Yes.

3) Correct, but if you buy-out a player who falls under the "Over 35" criteria, the team does not save cap space. The player is still paid under the buyout formula, but the cap hit stays as if the player were still playing for that team.

4) No.

5) Technically no, but the NHL can void a deal if it feels (and would have to prove) that a team is trying to do that contract to circumvent the salary cap. They originally rejected Rick DiPietro's contract, but relented and opened the flood gates.

All true -- only addition I can offer is that in 1) It's not actually whether they 'sign' after 35 but if the contract takes effect after the age of 35.

[55fan 5,133]

As long as there is a thread for this sort of thing, may I add a question?

Can a player who is injured be traded if he is on LTIR? If so, does he have no cap hit for his new team until he actually starts playing? Does the 10 games or whatever days until he can play carry over from one team to another, or does he start anew?

I have always found the cap to be too many numbers and until I joined here, I paid no attention, but now that I have you folks for resources, I'm trying to learn. Sorry if I sound stupid.

[Guest mindfly]

Question #4 is interesting, kenny is taking advantage of the current CBA.. there is a high possibility that Z&Franzen wont play at 38/39/40 etc and they recently signed so if they retire when they are older than 35 their salary wont count against the cap... me like..

Im all for these long massive contracts that brings down the caphit.

Edited June 26, 2009 by mindfly

[MacK_Attack 108]

As long as there is a thread for this sort of thing, may I add a question?

Can a player who is injured be traded if he is on LTIR? If so, does he have no cap hit for his new team until he actually starts playing? Does the 10 games or whatever days until he can play carry over from one team to another, or does he start anew?

I have always found the cap to be too many numbers and until I joined here, I paid no attention, but now that I have you folks for resources, I'm trying to learn. Sorry if I sound stupid.

Yes, an injured player can be traded.

The common misconception is that players who are on LTIR are not on the cap while they are injured. That is false. They remain on the cap, but the team has the ability to replace that player 's cap hit during the period that the player is injured.

As for the team acquiring the player, I believe they can add him to their LTIR retroactive to when the player got hurt.

[55fan 5,133]

Yes, an injured player can be traded.

The common misconception is that players who are on LTIR are not on the cap while they are injured. That is false. They remain on the cap, but the team has the ability to replace that player 's cap hit during the period that the player is injured.

As for the team acquiring the player, I believe they can add him to their LTIR retroactive to when the player got hurt.

If I may ask you to clarify, my understanding of this doesn't always seem to be right.

As I understand it, if a player with a $3.2 cap hit goes on LTIR, the team can use up to $3.2 for a single player to replace only that player. Is that correct? So if, say this player was replaced with a player whose cap hit was $1.2, the team is only "charged" with $3.2 rather than $4.4, which would be the total of the two players.

Or if a player with a cap hit of $.5 is replaced with a player worth $.8, the team is "charged" with only the $.8 as it is the larger of the two.

I am wondering what would happen if both of the above situations occurred simultaneously. What would be the situation then? Could the extra from the first paragraph be applied to the second?

Thank you for helping me out. This thread should be around for all time to help those of us who are still trying to get it all straight.

[MacK_Attack 108]

As I understand it, if a player with a $3.2 cap hit goes on LTIR, the team can use up to $3.2 for a single player to replace only that player. Is that correct? So if, say this player was replaced with a player whose cap hit was $1.2, the team is only "charged" with $3.2 rather than $4.4, which would be the total of the two players.

No, both cap hits count towards the team's cap number. All LTIR allows is for a team to exceed the salary cap to replace an injured player. A team can use LTIR to exceed the salary cap by up to 10%.

Or if a player with a cap hit of $.5 is replaced with a player worth $.8, the team is "charged" with only the $.8 as it is the larger of the two.

No. A player with a larger cap hit cannot be used as an LTIR replacement for a player with a lower cap hit. The only way that would work is if a team traded for a player who makes more, but his pro-rated cap hit would be the same or lower as the player he is replacing.

[55fan 5,133]

No, both cap hits count towards the team's cap number. All LTIR allows is for a team to exceed the salary cap to replace an injured player. A team can use LTIR to exceed the salary cap by up to 10%.

No. A player with a larger cap hit cannot be used as an LTIR replacement for a player with a lower cap hit. The only way that would work is if a team traded for a player who makes more, but his pro-rated cap hit would be the same or lower as the player he is replacing.

Thanks so much for your reply. No wonder I've been confused.

So if a team is up against the cap (for the purposes of ease in math, let's use round numbers) in a year where the cap is $50, and they have a large number of injured players, they can only spend a total of $55 for both the injured players and their replacements, regardless of who replaces whom?

[MacK_Attack 108]

Thanks so much for your reply. No wonder I've been confused.

So if a team is up against the cap (for the purposes of ease in math, let's use round numbers) in a year where the cap is $50, and they have a large number of injured players, they can only spend a total of $55 for both the injured players and their replacements, regardless of who replaces whom?

That's right.

[egroen 384]

Thanks so much for your reply. No wonder I've been confused.

So if a team is up against the cap (for the purposes of ease in math, let's use round numbers) in a year where the cap is $50, and they have a large number of injured players, they can only spend a total of $55 for both the injured players and their replacements, regardless of who replaces whom?

No -- the 10% exceeding limit is only for the off-season.

The maximum salary you can pay anyone is 20% of the cap in the year they are signed, as a side note...

But if the cap was at $50m and you lose 4 players to LTIR for a total of $20m in cap numbers -- you may exceed the $50m cap by the full $20m, while those players are on LTIR.

Article 50.10 of the CBA talks about LTIR and tha cap.

Edited June 26, 2009 by egroen

[Zeke 5]

Does anyone have a link,or information about compensation for signing someone's Restricted free agents?

I know it depends on the amount involved in signing the RFA.

ie Hudler signs elsewhere for 1.5 mil

or he signs elsewhere for 3 mill

[Zeke 5]

Does anyone have a link,or information about compensation for signing someone's Restricted free agents?

I know it depends on the amount involved in signing the RFA.

ie Hudler signs elsewhere for 1.5 mil

or he signs elsewhere for 3 mill

I just noticed that there is a thread already dedicated to this,