Red Wings prepare for life w/o Hossa

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I keep trying to point this out, but for some reason alot of posters on here think Huds is actually worth 3 million. Red glasses i tell ya. Nice third line player, been fun to watch, but my guess is he goes to arbitration. I'd be shocked (and pissed) at 3 mill.

If you completely ignore the stats, yes you're right. If you have some semblance of understanding of what a 23 goal, 57 point scoring 25 year old is worth in the modern NHL you just sound silly.

With Filppula we had to pay him more than he was worth to keep him long term and hope that down the road he'd be worth the 3 mil and then some. With Hudler we already have a player who's posted nearly 60pts and is only 25 years old. He's actually worth around 3 mil now if you go by market value instead of feelings.

[gcom007 1,465]

I keep trying to point this out, but for some reason alot of posters on here think Huds is actually worth 3 million. Red glasses i tell ya. Nice third line player, been fun to watch, but my guess is he goes to arbitration. I'd be shocked (and pissed) at 3 mill.

I like Huds and I think it's reasonable to suggest he's worth $3 million to some teams. Is he worth $3 million on the Wings? No. Hate to say it, but no. Maybe later, but not now. We're not in a situation to gamble that kind of money on him if you ask me. It wouldn't likely be the worst deal in memory but that doesn't make it a good deal.

[rage 24]

I think the biggest reason why this is going down like this is that Hossa doesn't want to take the Detroit offer off the table, he just wants to explore other options. I dunno, though. It would've been nice if we could've dealt his rights to someone for a pick and a conditional pick.

You'd almost think that the Wings could have still traded his rights and kept their deal on the table until noon tomorrow. Maybe not, but maybe?

It's very strange to me right now.

[ChitownWingsfan 54]

Am I the only one that is going to be pissed if Hossa's agent doesn't notify Holland about their decision to pursue free agency?

They could have at least traded his rights and gotten a draft pick.

I was thinking the same thing. Whats up with not returning phone calls, just pick up the phone and say "he's saying no" or "we need a couple more hours"?!

[gcom007 1,465]

If you completely ignore the stats, yes you're right. If you have some semblance of understanding of what a 23 goal, 57 point scoring 25 year old is worth in the modern NHL you just sound silly.

With Filppula we had to pay him more than he was worth to keep him long term and hope that down the road he'd be worth the 3 mil and then some. With Hudler we already have a player who's posted nearly 60pts and is only 25 years old. He's actually worth around 3 mil now if you go by market value instead of feelings.

Yeah. That's why I really don't like the Flip deal......still my least favorite deal in recent memory. And you're right, Huds has done and proven more than Flip thus far in terms of earning a paycheck. Not every player has to be a 2-way specialist. Offensive specialists are necessary as well and people will pay good money for them. You can have great D and hold a team to 1 or 2 goals every game, but if you can't score 2 or 3 goals a game, you still don't win.

[gcom007 1,465]

I was thinking the same thing. Whats up with not returning phone calls, just pick up the phone and say "he's saying no" or "we need a couple more hours"?!

He's not picking up phone calls with the moronic press people. He and Holland have been talking as has clearly been noted in nearly every article. Stupid writers and media outlets exist because people like you don't read. Stop that now.

[gcom007 1,465]

Like some of us have said, not so fast on Hossa and the Wings marriage being over...

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/ccustance.tsn/194440/

Discussions between Hossa and Wings will continue

Filed under: DetroitRedWings MarianHossa

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COMMENTS 0 Sporting News - User Comments

Jul 01, 2009 12:30 AM report abuse

The chances of Marian Hossa signing with the Red Wings aren't great, but it still could happen. Despite reports on the eve of free agency that Hossa had turned down an offer from the Red Wings, the possibility of a deal still exists.

An NHL source told SportingNews.com late Tuesday night that discussions between the two sides will continue.

It's not an issue of either side wanting to get a deal completed, it's a matter of finding common ground. The Red Wings would like to keep Hossa at a annual salary cap number in the $4 million range, which would be considerably less than he'd earn on the open market.

He earned $7.45 million this season and led the Red Wings with 40 goals. It's safe to assume he'd be worth at least that much if he's willing to explore the idea of playing for teams with money to spend like the Los Angeles Kings or Minnesota Wild.

On Tuesday, Detroit GM Ken Holland didn't sound like a GM on the verge of getting a deal done.

"I'm not optimistic," Holland told the Detroit Free Press' Helene St. James. "I've told [Hossa's agent] Ritch Winter we'd love to keep him, but he's hoping to do a lot better than what we're able to do."

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Yes, it does, but who cares right? Because we all know that Hudler is God and deserves $3.0m, when we were only going to offer Hossa $4.0m....

Yeah, apparently when you feel a player is worth keeping they're upgraded to 'god' status in your eyes.

Hossa's 4 million dollar contract broke down such that he was being paid more than 7 million a year for the first 6 years. He wasn't taking home smaller cheques, he was just signing a deal that lasted into his twilight years when he wasn't worth 7 million a season anymore. The cap allows us to take the hit as the average of the entire term, thus dropping the hit down to 4 million. Hossa himself would not be taking home less than 7 million a year until he's older than all f*** (which is generally considered to be age 36). Chances are that he'll end up having the same average pay value over the next 12 years anyway, unless he's going to be a superstar until the very end (highly unlikely).

Hudler can stay, for $1.2m... anything else is NOT overpaying him, but missusing our cap. He needs to give a hometown discount to stay so we can ice the best possible team this season, not so we can sign a $400,000 Joe UFA to skate on the 4th line... PLUS only have Meech as the 13th forward AND the 7th defensman. Yeah, that's depth for ya! Meech is your only savior for ALL injuries because you cannot call anyone up for $250,000.....

You are aware that each forward you call up isn't suddenly costing you their yearly salary against the cap, right? Otherwise we'd have exceeded the cap so many f***in' times last season it's crazy.

Seriously. Look at the cap hits from everyone below Kronwall in this chart.

Howard played for one game, he cost less than $8,000 on the cap. That's not because he's making 8k a year.

Yea, lets give Huder $2.5m of our $3.3m.....

I've shown you in another thread how the Wings can get away with paying Hudler 2.5 mil AND have a spare player for injuries.

Edit: spelling

Edited July 1, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[LeftWinger 4,964]

All Hail Hudler! Hail! Hail! Hail!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

All Hail Hudler! Hail! Hail! Hail!

Are you sure you're a 'left' winger?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Yeah. That's why I really don't like the Flip deal......still my least favorite deal in recent memory. And you're right, Huds has done and proven more than Flip thus far in terms of earning a paycheck. Not every player has to be a 2-way specialist. Offensive specialists are necessary as well and people will pay good money for them. You can have great D and hold a team to 1 or 2 goals every game, but if you can't score 2 or 3 goals a game, you still don't win.

Agreed.

I did like the Filppula deal during the playoffs, though.

[HudlerFanatic 4]

Easy? You think Hollands going to match $3 million for Hudler if he won't go over $4 million for Hossa? No way in hell.

Sammy's worth a good deal more money than he's going to get from the Wings and he deserves it. He's never made his money. No one can blame him for wanting to capitalize on it now.

Hudler? The fact that Holland said they're a bit apart and the agent wants more doesn't bode well for things if you ask me. Someone will throw a bit of money at Hudler and they know the Wings aren't going to dig that deep for him and they'll be able to do it and not even have to give up a #1 pick. Hudler doesn't have to sign it, but I don't have the highest of hopes.

Soooooo...like I've been saying for awhile, I'm not too worried about losing our other guys considering there's a real good chance we're going to lose them anyways.

Show me in WRITING where it says Hudler want's $3 MIL....there have been threads with people stating he is worth it....but as to the Hossa wanting more than $4M...(since he made over $7M) and Hudler only making $1.15 where does the HAVE TO HAVE $3M come in......I must of missed that article.

Obviously since I've read all the articles that came out today NO I don't think Holland will offer $3M since that's all that's about left....Im not a moron, I know how to count! The Wings only have NINE signed forwards.....we still need three....right???

A bit apart ......a hell of a lot better than "Im not optimistic, he's going to test the market, so on and so forth..."

Oh and to the "let's give Hudler 90% of the cap" guy.....we're not dumb.....obviously that can't happen. Just because people are pulling for Huds, since Hossa-Sammy- Cheli-Downey-McCarty-Kopceky-Conklin (if that happens) are all gone...why is it so far fetched that we would pull for our #6 forward to stay????

[Louisville 112]

I know we will be fine without Hossa, but the thought of him moving on to the next team is just unsettling....

[HudlerFanatic 4]

Wow--some of you are just incredible immature morons...I'm sorry, just because someone posts a thread, some people agree with keeping a player.....and all the sudden "let's just make fun of Hudler lover's".....

LET ME RESTATE THAT I NEVER SAID THAT IT WOULD BE EASY TO GIVE HUDLER $3MIL- I STATED THAT (IMO) IT WOULD BE EASY TO KEEP HIM BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD RATHER TAKE A CONTRACT WITH THE WINGS FOR LESS THEN RATHER GOING ELSEWHERE FOR ONLY $2/$2.5

Is it wrong for fans to have their own favorite players??

Is it wrong for fans to want their fav player to stay with their fav team??

How did this become a thread from stating an MLive report instead of sportsnet statment about the team and Hossa possibly not re-signing into a Hudler bashing thread??

I thought the immaturity if bashing players was over after game 7 of the SCF and everyone got their "angry didn't show up players statements" out of the way...

Just because some of us out there like Huds and think that he will take LESS to stay, doesn't mean that you have to label us and be mean ass pricks....(wishing I could replace the pr w/ a D)

I didn't see ONE PERSON on this thread or any others stating that Holland should offer Hudler $2.5 or $3mil but simply stating that he could make that elsewhere....but MOST comments about Huds is having the same if not just a little more pay saying between $1.5/$1.8...that's not an unreasonalble amount, especially if Hossa-Sammy-Kopecky are leaving & it's not that far fetched that the Wings could offer a 3-5 year deal that doesn't give him a raise at all this year and then give a bump w/ the remaining contract years.

Giving Hossa $7.45 was entire too much and it screwed the pay cap....plain & simple....and for what 40 goals--when they needed him to produce, he didn't.....but Hudler had a career high year, at the age of 25...give the guy a little credit...it's not like he didn't play and that he sucks....57 points. I'm not comparing the two at all. Obviously I am smart enough to know that these are two very different players....with almost 5 years between them.....Hossa only had 3 more points in the playoffs then Huds but I guess since I'm not comparing.........................

.....it's not like Hossa was the heart of the team. He played ONE year (if that...when did we actually sign him) with the Wings. He wasn't the #1 player for the Wings, in fact Dats & Z were...and those guys are locked in!

Can people not be civil adults on here? Make your point, have conversations with people stressing why you think the way you do and leave it at that.....debates are fine and fun, but there is no need to get nasty....people like that kinda remind me of a Pens player I've heard of...........

You can call me a "Hudler-lover" all you want though....I'm proud of sticking by a player I support!

[titanium2 867]

You can call me a "Hudler-lover" all you want though....I'm proud of sticking by a player I support!

I'm rather indifferent to Hudler coming back. If he's here, cool, hope his cap hit is fair, if not, they've got players who can fill his role.

I watch all the Hudler love around here and I feel like a Dad watching his daughters enjoy a Jonas Brothers concert or something. It just has a poppy sensation kind of feel for me. It's a nice story: A guy of that size scoring all those goals during the regular season and flashing that ridiculous smile.

But when it comes right down to it, he's fairly replaceable. If he somehow bolts then it's going to be hard for some people on here to let go of him because of that "smallest guy" image they've admired for the past couple of years.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I'm rather indifferent to Hudler coming back. If he's here, cool, hope his cap hit is fair, if not, they've got players who can fill his role.

I watch all the Hudler love around here and I feel like a Dad watching his daughters enjoy a Jonas Brothers concert or something. It just has a poppy sensation kind of feel for me. It's a nice story: A guy of that size scoring all those goals during the regular season and flashing that ridiculous smile.

But when it comes right down to it, he's fairly replaceable. If he somehow bolts then it's going to be hard for some people on here to let go of him because of that "smallest guy" image they've admired for the past couple of years.

[HudlerFanatic 4]

I'm rather indifferent to Hudler coming back. If he's here, cool, hope his cap hit is fair, if not, they've got players who can fill his role.

I watch all the Hudler love around here and I feel like a Dad watching his daughters enjoy a Jonas Brothers concert or something. It just has a poppy sensation kind of feel for me. It's a nice story: A guy of that size scoring all those goals during the regular season and flashing that ridiculous smile.

But when it comes right down to it, he's fairly replaceable. If he somehow bolts then it's going to be hard for some people on here to let go of him because of that "smallest guy" image they've admired for the past couple of years.

Wow......you are too cool. Jonas brothers huh??? Really...I just can't see Huds as a dumb ass pop-star singer with chasity ring wearing lover boy with the woman he has on his arm........

So people that like St. Louis, do they remind you of your daughters too.....or how about any other hockey player under the height of 5'11....are you saying that just because a person likes a player that is "small" it's cute......

MAYBE just MAYBE some people like the fact that the Wings have players that can actually play the game with out having a bunch of......... "mean-tough-ass-WWE/UFC-slow ass" skaters that all they can do is hand out cheap shots to those "little guys" and then have people say that the "little guys" shouldn't play, they're too small, they can't take a hit......our big guys have skill and speed as well as the ability to win games WITHOUT being hard ass grinders.....

But if you think it's "cute" and just plain "adorable" that people like Hudler (like I don't know who you were talking to) then that's fine.

But so you know, Im not exactly a "pop-rock" fan and if you're daughters are my age, I hope they aren't swooning over the Jonas Brothers......

It's not the "image" I admire, it's his ability to play the F'N game, get knocked the F out, come back and play, not puck-hog, score goals, play on the PP, not get stupid penalties, and pay attention to who's on the line with him and know who to get the puck to for the goal and make the damn plays.....and I guess if he's putting up 57 points with his size...then I guess that is "cute" so you say! I call it amazing, not many out there his size can do that!...and so I guess you're right I do admire a "small" guy out there playing in the NHL with the Red Wings that is their #6 forward.....isn't that just too cute??!?!?!

[titanium2 867]

Wow......you are too cool.

Ooohh boy. Guess I pushed a button.

The hockey part:

If we're going to talk about game, it is just my preference or opinion that Hudler is fairly replaceable because of his skating ability, which is moreso evident during the playoffs. It was nice that he was able to take advantage of his time on the PP but when the finals turned into a 5-on-5 series, Huds became less and less noticeable. If you can't skate well enough to get in position to get the puck back or make a play, then that skill set becomes less effective rather quickly.

The more philosophical/psychological part:

Let's be fair here. If you really just liked Hudler's game by itself, then your username would be DatsyukFanatic. Datsyuk is the one with mastery over that style on the Wings. But obviously you're a HudsFanatic. Why? Why Huds instead of Datsyuk? What's different about Huds' game? Not much, really, except his skating ability and lesser aptitude for the defensive end. But wait a minute those last two traits aren't all that appealing. And a hockey fan isn't a fan of the Wings without an appreciation for two-way play. So why pick Huds? If you focused solely on style of play you would gravitate to Datsyuk and you wouldn't even notice Hudler. So what makes you notice Hudler? What makes Huds stand out? The difference is his image. The little 5'8 guy with all the heart scoring those goals and celebrating and smiling or crying none of us ever know which one it is. I acknowledge that you love Huds' game, but face it, you love his image too, as do many on this board. As a Hudler fanatic, any time he celebrates a goal and flashes that smile I'm sure you fall in love with it every time. All that "get knocked the F out, come back and score goals at his size" stuff is all a part of his image. It allows him stand out. It allows for us as fans to perceive him as unique. And this may come as no surprise to you... There's nothing wrong with that. Besides, you can't idolize someone without having a distinct image in your head of what separates them from the others. Otherwise, how would you select a player to call your favorite? As far as the Wings go, Huds has that pop-type of image going for him. If Huds was just another 5-11, 190 pound player with the same points who was stoic every time he scored a goal, you wouldn't notice him as much as you do now.

In the end I never said that you or anyone else on here only loved Hudler for his image. All I said was that was a part of what made him stand out, what made so lovable and that if he were to leave, it would be harder for some to let him go because of the supreme image he built in our perceptions as fans. There have been many that have donned a Wings jersey with a similar skill set, but few are willing to drunkenly chant "Let's go Red Vings!" with a half empty bud light in his back pocket. It's okay if people want to like the Jonas Brothers.

[Stiffy 0]

What teams do these Jonas brothers play for? Are they free agents this year? Could we trade Hudler for two of them? Sounds intriguing.

P.S. I think Hank is really dreamy.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Stiffy