NHL'S Top 10 most likely breakout players

[Drake_Marcus 890]

So show me the scouting reports Ken Holland saw regarding Filppula that you seem to know so much about.

Last year I agree that Hudler was better on the PP, but in the playoffs Hudler got (more than) double the PP ice time and exactly double the PP points as Filppula.

You do realize that players get better over time right? At the end of his contract Filppula is going to be a steal.

And how is what you bolded foolish? Filpulla gets more ES scoring than Hudler, and in the playoffs last year their PP point/minute ratio was nearly identical. Same PP totals and Flip outproducing at ES equalss Flip has more points. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&...;fp=vadHe-UdmfQ

Filppula's development was stunted by the addition of Hossa, this is fact. It's not just about TOI which you stat hounds seem to drool over, it the role on the team.

Anyway I'm done arguing this. I'll let the season speak for itself at this point, I'll be sure to bring this up again when Filppula surprises the best minds here.

Filppula's ES scoring per minute isn't better than Hudler's. Filppula's anything scoring per minute isn't better than Hudlers

I never said Holland saw a specific scouting report on Filppula. I referred to any scouting report on Filppula. They all project him as a second line player. Sportsnet, TSN (when they still had them), the reports we saw on him back in the 06-07 season, MY EYES, my mom, uummm... a magic 8 ball I found on the bus one day. Everything.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Anyway I'm done arguing this. I'll let the season speak for itself at this point, I'll be sure to bring this up again when Filppula surprises the best minds here.

Dude- I'd love to be underestimating Filppula. I'd love him to put up 60 points this season. I'm a Wings fan first and foremost-- a Red Wings player on a long term contract far exceeding expectations? Awesome.

If Filppula rocks our socks off and ends up with a McFarlane action figure I'll gladly buy it and add it to my collection. It's not like I dislike Filppula man.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Sportsnet, TSN (when they still had them), the reports we saw on him back in the 06-07 season, MY EYES, my mom, uummm... a magic 8 ball I found on the bus one day. Everything.

My god, how scientifical. How could I not have seen this before? Why didn't you tell me such an all knowing societys such as SPORTSNET and TSN and the all mighty DRAKE MARCUS say that Valtteri Filppula will only ever amount to a second line center (And EVERYONE knows if someone is pegged a "second line center" that it's only possible that they get 50 points in their career year and that anything else is ridiculous).

...

What are you going to tell me next? That the bible is true because it says so in the bible?

And I'm not under the impression you don't like Filppula, it's just that I think you're underestimating his potential.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[kook_10 1,705]

I dont understand the logic in saying he squandered a whopping 47 seconds of PP time a game. Only a fraction of that was spent on the 2nd PP unit towards the end of the season. The majority of PP time he got was at the end of the power plays to defend against the opponent's surge at the end of the PK. When he genuinely gets on the 2nd PP unit he will actually have time to play in some offensive zone setups which 47 seconds a game wont buy you. Additionally the coaching staff will work him into more PP drills. I see upside there, and disagree that his PP worth has been disproven. The kid is very coachable!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

My god, how scientifical. How could I not have seen this before? Why didn't you tell me such an all knowing societys such as SPORTSNET and TSN and the all mighty DRAKE MARCUS say that Valtteri Filppula will only ever amount to a second line center (And EVERYONE knows if someone is pegged a "second line center" that it's only possible that they get 50 points in their career year and that anything else is ridiculous).

...

What are you going to tell me next? That the bible is true because it says so in the bible?

And I'm not under the impression you don't like Filppula, it's just that I think you're underestimating his potential.

Actually the scouting reports on Sportsnet, TSN and the ones from the 06-07 season (that you've conveniently ignored) are pretty reliable considering they've been right on the money. Filppula's already played long stretches as a 2nd line centre, first in the 07-08 season when Babcock started using him as the 2nd line centre while Datsyuk and Zetterberg were on the same line. Who played centre on the second line that season when Z and Dats were together? Did Filppula explode offensively in that case? He got almost 2 mins of PP time that season too and couldn't hack it so they gave the time to Hudler who did score when given the PP time. Sorry man- Filppula's yet to show himself as being good enough to hit that first tier of offensive players (the guys who put 60+ points). And he's been given plenty of opportunities. He's increased his production by a whole 10% over last two seasons. Do you really think he'll manage to jump by 25+% and hit the 50pt level? I hope he can man, but that's a big jump for any player.

Guess what man- I'm much more likely to be correct here than you. Filppula's hands aren't those of a 1st line centre but they are those of a 2nd line centre. All evidence backs me up. You're just getting upset over nothing. And apparently the inclusion of a magic 8-ball found on a bus alongside my own name in that list wasn't a hint that I was being facetious.

I think you're overestimating his potential, you think I'm underestimating his potential. We'll never agree. I'd suggest a duel but I don't own a gun.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I dont understand the logic in saying he squandered a whopping 47 seconds of PP time a game. Only a fraction of that was spent on the 2nd PP unit towards the end of the season. The majority of PP time he got was at the end of the power plays to defend against the opponent's surge at the end of the PK. When he genuinely gets on the 2nd PP unit he will actually have time to play in some offensive zone setups which 47 seconds a game wont buy you. Additionally the coaching staff will work him into more PP drills. I see upside there, and disagree that his PP worth has been disproven. The kid is very coachable!

Yes he is.... and that's just one of many reasons why he'll likely retire a Wing.

[tommingthepuck96 1]

Actually the scouting reports on Sportsnet, TSN and the ones from the 06-07 season (that you've conveniently ignored) are pretty reliable considering they've been right on the money. Filppula's already played long stretches as a 2nd line centre, first in the 07-08 season when Babcock started using him as the 2nd line centre while Datsyuk and Zetterberg were on the same line. Who played centre on the second line that season when Z and Dats were together? Did Filppula explode offensively in that case? He got almost 2 mins of PP time that season too and couldn't hack it so they gave the time to Hudler who did score when given the PP time. Sorry man- Filppula's yet to show himself as being good enough to hit that first tier of offensive players (the guys who put 60+ points). And he's been given plenty of opportunities. He's increased his production by a whole 10% over last two seasons. Do you really think he'll manage to jump by 25+% and hit the 50pt level? I hope he can man, but that's a big jump for any player.

Guess what man- I'm much more likely to be correct here than you. Filppula's hands aren't those of a 1st line centre but they are those of a 2nd line centre. All evidence backs me up. You're just getting upset over nothing. And apparently the inclusion of a magic 8-ball found on a bus alongside my own name in that list wasn't a hint that I was being facetious.

I think you're overestimating his potential, you think I'm underestimating his potential. We'll never agree. I'd suggest a duel but I don't own a gun.

I dont really get why your trying so hard to discredit any chance of filppula becoming a star. No one is saying hes going to become the next pavel datsyuk. But if you really call your self a true red wing fan, and claim the skill and potential filppula shows is all a fluke, (i.e your comparsion to darren mcartys goal) then honestly i see no real point in replying to any of your posts. But what the hell..

Guess what man- I'm much more likely to be correct here than you. Filppula's hands aren't those of a 1st line centre but they are those of a 2nd line centre.

Is that what this is about, you HAVE to be correct no matter what?... What evidence? Stats? Filppula played a third line center, defense first role. He played with less skilled players the entire season, all without seeing hardly any power play time. And still put up a decent 19 goals, and 28 assists... Over 80 games.

Don't sit there and tell me you have any legit evidence that suggests, filppula has NO chance of putting up 50-65 points, while getting second line minutes, and having the green light to play more of an offensive minded game with more skilled players, not to mention seeing full time power play ice time..

Sorry i think ill take the red wing organization over your panel of tsn experts who are probably aren't stupid enough to pay a guy 3 million a season to just kill penalty's and chip in a measly 40 points a season... The potential is there, its all about if filppula is ready to take on the responsibility.

[titanium2 867]

I think you're overestimating his potential, you think I'm underestimating his potential. We'll never agree. I'd suggest a duel but I don't own a gun.

You two have already had this conversation ( http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...60182&st=20 ).

And hang on a second. One week it's:

That is way off. He got 40 points this year with basically no PP time and a checking role for the most part. With more PP time and being on a scoring line, Flip will get at least 65 points this year.

Another week it's:

I said 70 points eventually, I think he'll get around 55 points this season. But some people think even that is unrealistic, which itself is thoroughly unrealistic.

Should we expect 45 next week?

[titanium2 867]

September 11, 2005

http://www.redwingscentral.com/stories/200...11_Summary.html

Filppula played a second-line role with Jokerit this season, and fell just short of winning the Finnish championship. His style of play was once compared to a cross between Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg.

“I don’t think he’s at that level, but he’s a guy that’s going to play,†said Nill. “He’s a good skater with great hockey sense, but the whole thing is strength. I think he’s going to be a pretty complete player down the road.â€

Just in case people aren't clear, they didn't mean cross as in a super combination of Pav and Z. They meant to say that he showed some strengths of Pav as in the moves and ability to get by a defender even while not operating at top speed and some strengths of Z as in instinctive backchecking.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I dont really get why your trying so hard to discredit any chance of filppula becoming a star. No one is saying hes going to become the next pavel datsyuk. But if you really call your self a true red wing fan, and claim the skill and potential filppula shows is all a fluke, (i.e your comparsion to darren mcartys goal) then honestly i see no real point in replying to any of your posts. But what the hell..

Is that what this is about, you HAVE to be correct no matter what?... What evidence? Stats? Filppula played a third line center, defense first role. He played with less skilled players the entire season, all without seeing hardly any power play time. And still put up a decent 19 goals, and 28 assists... Over 80 games.

Don't sit there and tell me you have any legit evidence that suggests, filppula has NO chance of putting up 50-65 points, while getting second line minutes, and having the green light to play more of an offensive minded game with more skilled players, not to mention seeing full time power play ice time..

Sorry i think ill take the red wing organization over your panel of tsn experts who are probably aren't stupid enough to pay a guy 3 million a season to just kill penalty's and chip in a measly 40 points a season... The potential is there, its all about if filppula is ready to take on the responsibility.

ahhh no he didn't Filppula's highest total was 40pts. The season he put up 19 goals he played with Datsyuk the entire time Zetterberg was injured and spent the majority of the season as the 2nd line centre. Last season he was 6th in average time on ice for forwards. That's top 6, as in not a minimal defensive roll.

It's interesting that you interperate realism as character assassination of some sort. Ohhh I said he's a second line centre who has a career potential of somewhere around 55pts. I'm such a ******* horrible Wings fan. How dare I expect reasonable things from players instead of assuming they're all destined for the first line.

Christ. This is ridiculous. Next you're going to tell me that Help projects as a 25 goal man, right? Because you can't possibly value and appreciate a player when you dare say what you think his maximum potential is.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Just in case people aren't clear, they didn't mean cross as in a super combination of Pav and Z. They meant to say that he showed some strengths of Pav as in the moves and ability to get by a defender even while not operating at top speed and some strengths of Z as in instinctive backchecking.

Thanks for the Nill quote backing me up. I mean Nill seemed to think Filppula projected as a complete player without the high end offensive potential of Z or Dats, but Z and D for the C seems to think that the Red Wings front office sees Filppula as a 70pt guy (which would make him one of the top 30 players in the league and officially a star player, by the way).

[titanium2 867]

Thanks for the Nill quote backing me up. I mean Nill seemed to think Filppula projected as a complete player without the high end offensive potential of Z or Dats, but Z and D for the C seems to think that the Red Wings front office sees Filppula as a 70pt guy (which would make him one of the top 30 players in the league and officially a star player, by the way).

It's very much a matter of interpretation.

Kenny did say that, "The only thing no one knows is how good he can be. But even if he doesn't become a 70-point scorer we think he might be, we'll still love everything about him as a player and person" ( http://www.blnz.com/news/2008/07/30/Wings_...-year_5557.html ).

However, it seems as if he said it as if he's not really expecting it. As if it's just a bonus.

Also Babs usually says "elite" when he refers to guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk. With Fil, fair or unfair, he dishes out the term "upper-echelon:" "The challenge for Fil, and I challenge him all the time with this, is I think he has a chance to be an upper-echelon player in the league if he gets to the puck more and shoots the puck more, because he can do everything else." ( http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...ula_not_sc.html )

To me, upper-echelon does not necessarily mean all-star but rather the "Brendan Morrison in his prime" comparison.

[kook_10 1,705]

To me, upper-echelon does not necessarily mean all-star but rather the "Brendan Morrison in his prime" comparison.

If he ended up like Jere Lehtinen in his prime I may be just as happy with that.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Should we expect 45 next week?

In retrospect, 65 points may have been high. Are you happy now? Do you want a ******* cookie?

[titanium2 867]

In retrospect, 65 points may have been high. Are you happy now? Do you want a ******* cookie?

I had some lorna doones earlier. What I'd really like is to see you take it easy on the anger pills. You have good opinions. It's just hard for others to see that when needlessly disagree with others with an overlay of drama queen.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

These threads get so heated. We need a Funny Wings Pictures thread to get people to calm the f*** downnn.

[titanium2 867]

These threads get so heated. We need a Funny Wings Pictures thread to get people to calm the f*** downnn.

NO! You're WRONG! A Funny Wings Pictures thread is useless and takes up too much memory space. We have that thread, the LGW server crashes and then what would we do? WHAT-WOULD-WE-DO???...

...Alright yeah someone should probably start that thread.

[dallas27 7]

My god, how scientifical. How could I not have seen this before? Why didn't you tell me such an all knowing societys such as SPORTSNET and TSN and the all mighty DRAKE MARCUS say that Valtteri Filppula will only ever amount to a second line center (And EVERYONE knows if someone is pegged a "second line center" that it's only possible that they get 50 points in their career year and that anything else is ridiculous).

...

What are you going to tell me next? That the bible is true because it says so in the bible?

And I'm not under the impression you don't like Filppula, it's just that I think you're underestimating his potential.

They get paid to do that, you don't. Forgive him if he's going to believe professional journalists / scouts over you.

There is nothing wrong with him being a second line center that has a ceiling of, and I'll be generous, 65 points. Absolutely nothing wrong. I've said all along he's a jack of all trades guy, he does nothing exceptional but he does everything well. He may be able to crack a first line center on a sub .500 team, no doubt about that. But he definitely won't be seeing any first line center time on this team with Datsyuk and Hank leading the way.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

It's very much a matter of interpretation.

Kenny did say that, "The only thing no one knows is how good he can be. But even if he doesn't become a 70-point scorer we think he might be, we'll still love everything about him as a player and person" ( http://www.blnz.com/news/2008/07/30/Wings_...-year_5557.html ).

However, it seems as if he said it as if he's not really expecting it. As if it's just a bonus.

Also Babs usually says "elite" when he refers to guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk. With Fil, fair or unfair, he dishes out the term "upper-echelon:" "The challenge for Fil, and I challenge him all the time with this, is I think he has a chance to be an upper-echelon player in the league if he gets to the puck more and shoots the puck more, because he can do everything else." ( http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...ula_not_sc.html )

To me, upper-echelon does not necessarily mean all-star but rather the "Brendan Morrison in his prime" comparison.

I think we're in the same place man. I can see Filppula being a Morrison type guy on this team. And I think that's exciting. Who wouldn't want a solid, two-way player who can play on the PK, in the last minute of the game and even on the PP if you're in a pinch? A 50-60pt 2-way centre who excels on face-offs and the PK? Why do people think that's me selling Filppula short? That sounds pretty f***in' good to me.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

They get paid to do that, you don't. Forgive him if he's going to believe professional journalists / scouts over you.

There is nothing wrong with him being a second line center that has a ceiling of, and I'll be generous, 65 points. Absolutely nothing wrong. I've said all along he's a jack of all trades guy, he does nothing exceptional but he does everything well. He may be able to crack a first line center on a sub .500 team, no doubt about that. But he definitely won't be seeing any first line center time on this team with Datsyuk and Hank leading the way.

This guy gets it.

Any chance I can convince you to switch your avatar for one that's got a cartoon uniform drawn on whoever Holland signs to replace Hudler? It could be a free agent theme kind of thing. Plus it's cool, and given the guys who are left in the pool of UFAs... well it'd probably the most attention any of them have had on the net.

[titanium2 867]

I think we're in the same place man. I can see Filppula being a Morrison type guy on this team. And I think that's exciting. Who wouldn't want a solid, two-way player who can play on the PK, in the last minute of the game and even on the PP if you're in a pinch? A 50-60pt 2-way centre who excels on face-offs and the PK? Why do people think that's me selling Filppula short? That sounds pretty f***in' good to me.

I do expect Filppula to be on the PP full time. Come to think of it, I expect him to develop in a similar manner as Johan Franzen. The Mule has the goal scoring thing down but just doesn't like to pass the puck all that much. I think the same can happen for Filppula, only with more emphasis on assists because that's his greater strength the way goal scoring is for Franzen. He's got the playmaking ability. Not as high as Franzen's goal scoring ability, but I expect it to come close soon.

Just like how Franzen was, Filppula is all about the defense at this point: "I've been trying to play the same way ... Getting more offense this year, which is always good. The main thing is to play really well defensively and be happy with the offense I can get" ( Link ). As he progresses this year, I expect him to be even more two-way, with greater growth in the ability to get 2nd line quality offense while not sacrificing any defense.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I do expect Filppula to be on the PP full time. Come to think of it, I expect him to develop in a similar manner as Johan Franzen. The Mule has the goal scoring thing down but just doesn't like to pass the puck all that much. I think the same can happen for Filppula, only with more emphasis on assists because that's his greater strength the way goal scoring is for Franzen. He's got the playmaking ability. Not as high as Franzen's goal scoring ability, but I expect it to come close soon.

Just like how Franzen was, Filppula is all about the defense at this point: "I've been trying to play the same way ... Getting more offense this year, which is always good. The main thing is to play really well defensively and be happy with the offense I can get" ( Link ). As he progresses this year, I expect him to be even more two-way, with greater growth in the ability to get 2nd line quality offense while not sacrificing any defense.

I hope you're right. But either way I'm happy with how Filppula projects in the future.

[titanium2 867]

I hope you're right. But either way I'm happy with how Filppula projects in the future.

Well yeah, of course. Those were my high hopes for him. If he falls short I'll still be very pleased. Like they say, baby steps.

[numberthirtynine 0]

No he didn't. Sammuelsson was sixth. Cleary was seventh and Filppula was eighth. In the case of ties the player is ranked by number of goals.

No, he's 6th. I don't give a good f*** about a little technicality that allows you to all-too-gleefully call him 8th in scoring. 40 points is 40 points. The goals only matter in game day topics, and arguments when overreactors want a scape goat. Points are points. Look at Datsyuk, or players like him like Thornton and Savard. Theyre points guys but arent goal scorers. Fil is that type of player. Hell from the first couple games I saw from Fil in GR I could see a ton of Datsyuk in him. I still do.

I guess my rant was cute enough that you dodged the whole thing. Fil should not be receiving any flack for what he is doing. He is going out there and doing what he has been told. Considering the circumstances I ran down, he actually has done damn well. 60 points is not out of the question if they actually give him PP time instead of putting him out there on the PK and then telling him next shift to play D the whole time.

Now that I think about it, Eaves signing may be a good way to egt Fil off the PK and onto the PP where he shouldve always been anyway.

Edited August 4, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[Konnan511 1,736]

How quickly it's forgotten that Flip is one of the most consistent Red Wings we have as well. Look at the past couple playoffs.

I cannot believe that I'm seeing that Filppula doesn't have great hands when his OWN TEAMMATES have said that he has amazing hands. I think they know a little bit more about the game then any of you.

"He's not that good of a playmaker" LOLOL. I'll leave it at that. I can't wait to sig all the assinine comments I've read in here when Flip puts up 50+ points this coming season.

With that said, Go Wings!