Another pro fighter article: This one on May/Wings

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

More "evidence" that the Wings players and Babs feel that it's important to have a fighter.

Bab's own words highlighted in bold

Red Wings appreciate knowing veteran enforcer Brad May has their backs

By Ansar Khan

October 29, 2009, 9:45PM

Brad May Red WingsAP File PhotoDetroit Red Wings forward Brad May, right, fights differently than many of the league's tough guys: He prefers to start blasting away rather than square up and wait for an opening.EDMONTON, Alberta -- Detroit Red Wings forward Brad May always admired rugged left wingers who could score goals and fight. His list of favorites included Shayne Corson, Rick Tocchet, Cam Neely and Gerard Gallant.

"Cam didn't fight as much, but he was awesome to watch,'' May said. "I remember fighting Gerard Gallant (a former Red Wing). He was a guy I actually loved. I remember writing his name down as one of the players I wanted to be like.''

May appreciates tough guys, regardless of size.

"Bob Bassen was a little guy who ran around; he was tiny, but tough as nails,'' May said. "I don't want to be biased, but Bob Probert and Joey Kocur, what a team they were. It was not fun playing against Detroit for that reason.''

May began his NHL career with the Buffalo Sabres in 1991 as a player who could contribute some offense -- he had double-digit goal totals in his first four full seasons -- and serve as an enforcer.

Now, four weeks short of his 38th birthday and in his 18th NHL season, May still is filling one role well, at times trading punches with players 10 to 15 years younger than him.

"A lot of my friends aren't playing right now, and I keep getting these texts about doing it for the old guys,'' May said.

May, who signed with the Red Wings on Oct. 7, has given the team a much-needed element of toughness, holding accountable opponents who take liberties against the club's skilled players. He had been in three fights in five games heading into Thursday's game at Edmonton.

"You don't play the game as long as he has and (fill) the role he has unless you're real tough and you're real game and you're a great pro,'' Red Wings coach Mike Babcock said. "He's been absolutely low-maintenance. He's a great teammate. He's made our team better.''

Players appreciate having someone to watch their back. They also enjoy his pleasant personality.

"He's a great fit for our locker room,'' Dan Cleary said. "Knowing what he does on the ice is a good, calming factor for everybody, knowing teams aren't going to be able to take liberties on our good players and run around. It's a great element that has helped us in the past with Mac (Darren McCarty) and Downs (Aaron Downey).''

May has teamed with tough guys on many of his six previous clubs. In Buffalo, he played with Rob Ray, Matthew Barnaby and Bob Boughner. In Detroit, he realizes the onus is on him.

"It's nice to have a committee when you're doing it all the time,'' May said.

He said it was tougher being a fighter when he came into the league, when there was no instigator rule and players didn't fear leaving their team shorthanded and getting ejected from the game. Players often were forced to fight -- they couldn't pick their spots.

"You didn't know when you were going to fight. If you were up by a goal or six goals, you knew something was going to happen,'' May said. "Guys are definitely a lot bigger and a lot tougher today, but it certainly was more combustible back then.

"I think now, with the way the game is being played, you got to pick your spots and do it at the right times.''

He has no problem being the aggressor or accepting a challenge from someone trying to hold him accountable.

"It's been a lot of fun, my son watching, my daughter. I know it sounds crazy, but they're cheering dad on,'' May said. "When you do something like that (taking liberties), you have to be accountable for your actions. There's nowhere to hide, you know (tough guys) are coming, and if you don't (fight) then you lose respect.

"I know what I have to do. Hopefully, I can do it. It's a long year; I'm certainly prepared to.''

He paused and remembered some advice.

"My dad, my bother and everybody said, 'When you talk about fighting, you're going to get killed the next time,' "May said. "So I got to keep my mouth shut and just do my job.''

May has a fighting style unlike many tough guys: He prefers to start blasting away rather than square up and wait for an opening.

"I think I'm prepared,'' May said. "I don't know if I've ever gotten into a fight and said, 'Oh, my God, he hit me with six lefts! I didn't know he was a lefty!' "

Then, he remembered that advice again.

"The moment we start talking about that, you get hit,'' May said. "My grand pappy would tell me, 'You'll meet your maker one day, so just stay humble.'

On a side note

As for that 5 goal debacle last night, as somebody who played defense his entire life, I cannot understand how none of our dmen have ever been taught or at least instinctively realize that Horcoff or whoever scored that goal in front, doesn't score that goal if he gets cleaned out of the crease with any sort of authority. Seriously, how many goals have we given up over the last 5 years just like that one, where teams get 4, 5, 6 whacks at a puck because we try to tie up sticks instead of drilling somebody onto their ass? It bugs me to no end. Rant over.

[The Mule 0]

Agreed; seems as though we've lacked that ability to clear the crease for a while now - however we have 2 guys on D that'll take an opponents head off at center ice.

Kronner is a warrior when it comes to open-ice hits, but he isn't exactly a big, strong defender.

[kook_10 1,705]

That's what I'm getting at; hopefully Ericsson uses his big frame, and is capable of pushing the opposition outta Ozzie's/Jimmy's front porch...As of right now there hasn't been a Red Wing Dman capable of doing just that on a consistent basis.

It was a little encouraging to see him put a couple guys on their asses last night, but unfortunately it seems he does that mostly when he is arriving late to the party.

[Chunkylover 26]

I like May's attitude.

I don't like this constant mischaracterization of the "fighter" debate, as if there are anti-fighters out there. Before May was signed all we heard was how "scared" Ken Holland was of having fighters and the team was going to lose because of it. Now that the Wings have a fighter, no one is out there starting threads about what a waste May is, because none of the accused "anti-fighters" thinks that way.

There are only those who support the decisions of the management and those who don't, or those who recognize the Wings record of success without a designated fighter and those who deny it.

As for the team defense thing. Howard needs to work on rebound control, our D-corps is soft, but could still play harder as you've pointed out, and the forwards need to get back and help out instead of looking to accelerate the transition.

[StormJH1 231]

Your timing is ironic. The number one rationale for signing a fighter was that he'll keep our skill players safe. Since May was signed, Franzen and Filppula have gone down with injuries for reasons having nothing to do with fighting or goonery. Brad May plays less than 10 minutes a game, and anyone who thinks he has more of an impact on the outcome than even a 6th defenseman, like Lebda, is a fool.

In the 2007 playoffs, Brad May cheapshotted Kim Johnsson of the Wild and knocked him out for the series. The Wild happen to be the employer of Derek Boogaard, who (in anonymous polling) generally ranks as the most feared "goon" in the NHL. The following year, the Wild were in the Playoffs against the Avalanche and started getting cheap-shotted by cowards like Cody McLeod and Jeff Finger, none of which would ever consider dropping the gloves with a guy like Boogaard.

Which begs the question: If there's an instigator rule in place and guys cheapshot and injury players regularly even though there's "goons" on practically every NHL team, how does having one on your team help in any way, shape, or form. I don't care what Babcock or the players said in an article...May has no other purpose for being on this squad apart from being a fighter, so what are they supposed to say now that he's here? If he weren't here, I highly doubt they would tell the media "Yeah, we're just a bunch ******* and could really use some help!"

Finally, anyone who thinks that the team has played "well" or "better" since May got here....did you watch any games?

[StormJH1 231]

As for the team defense thing. Howard needs to work on rebound control, our D-corps is soft, but could still play harder as you've pointed out, and the forwards need to get back and help out instead of looking to accelerate the transition.

Absolutely right, except that a "physical presence" like Brad May is no tthe one responsible for clearing out guys in front of the net. If ever there were a critical situation late in the game, Brad May's ass is glued to the bench, which makes it difficult for him to improve our play on the ice. Why don't people understand this?

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Brad May is on the team.

Until a player is off the team, you will hear nothing but public praise for him from the front house. Do you really think a player won't hear badmouthing by a coach done publicly (much less privately?). You might hear he had a bad day or something if he messes something up, but that's about it.

"He made our team better", of course he has... Is this something worth making a thread about? No. It's laughable you bothered to highlight it. When's the last time you heard the front office say someone on the team sucks (well... with Babcock/Holland)?

All babcock has said in this article is May has accomplished/performed what has been expected of him.

Zetterberg defended Howard last night with a (not exact quote) "no we need to be better as a team" statement, literally minutes after he tried skating behind Howard to block a shot. A professional team/business/organization is not going to say bad things about themselves publicly.

This is exactly why Jimmy D's recent interview was so horrid, and why I'll keep bringing it up.

[dat's sick 1,002]

May seems like a great guy and he actually is a decent 4th liner, but I can't say I've noticed some huge effect on how other teams play against us just because we have a fighter.

After that comment by Upshall during the Phoenix game I sort of think that Kronwall's open ice hits are more intimidating than a guy like May, who mostly fights against other enforcers. Kronwall takes down anyone who has their head down, he doesn't ask them "wanna go?" and then hits them if they agree.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Glad to see May is getting a warm welcome here.

With last night's performance he really has been showing he wants to be a regular contributor.

(in before "omg you changed your stance you anti-fighter!". No I didn't)

[sureWhyNot 19]

Your timing is ironic. The number one rationale for signing a fighter was that he'll keep our skill players safe. Since May was signed, Franzen and Filppula have gone down with injuries for reasons having nothing to do with fighting or goonery. Brad May plays less than 10 minutes a game, and anyone who thinks he has more of an impact on the outcome than even a 6th defenseman, like Lebda, is a fool.

In the 2007 playoffs, Brad May cheapshotted Kim Johnsson of the Wild and knocked him out for the series. The Wild happen to be the employer of Derek Boogaard, who (in anonymous polling) generally ranks as the most feared "goon" in the NHL. The following year, the Wild were in the Playoffs against the Avalanche and started getting cheap-shotted by cowards like Cody McLeod and Jeff Finger, none of which would ever consider dropping the gloves with a guy like Boogaard.

Which begs the question: If there's an instigator rule in place and guys cheapshot and injury players regularly even though there's "goons" on practically every NHL team, how does having one on your team help in any way, shape, or form. I don't care what Babcock or the players said in an article...May has no other purpose for being on this squad apart from being a fighter, so what are they supposed to say now that he's here? If he weren't here, I highly doubt they would tell the media "Yeah, we're just a bunch ******* and could really use some help!"

Finally, anyone who thinks that the team has played "well" or "better" since May got here....did you watch any games?

LOL. May has been just fine. I laugh when folks like youself constanly dismiss the role of grit on a hockey team (I am talking real grit, not facewashing a guy after a whistle and the ref is present.)

By my calculations May has done his job just fine - in fact May has done his job a lot more then 80% of our d-men, and about the same percent of our top 6 (guys whose job it is to put the puck into the net.) May has definitely done his job better then either of our goaltenders - but I am not even going to get into that, seeing as though you come across as the type who doesn't see much of a problem with our goaltending.

Not to mention your entire premise regarding May is flawed. Franzen tore his ACL when he fell on it wrong - it wasn't due to a cheap shot. May is a good policeman but he isn't god. And Flips broken wrist was a fluke, not a cheap shot - so again, the enforcer angle really is null and void here as well. Thus making your argument, or should I say, attempt at an argument, nothing more then meaningless babble from someone who is clearly out to lunch about a lot of things hockey related.

As for May and Boogard -- what's your point? May did cheap shot Johnsson - it was in the heat of the moment during a playoff game and it is what it is. You think the Red Wings are completely innocent of ever committing a cheapshot? May fought Boogard the next time the teams played -- the following year and with you being an obvious expert on hockey enforcers (this is indicated by your terminology "most feared goon") you would also know that while May didn't win against Boogard, he certainly fared about exponentially better then 99% of guys who have dropped the gloves with Boogard:

I cannot stand people who hate tougher guys for nothing else but them playing a different style of hockey then Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Flip play. May has done everything asked from him and then some. He is literally in the bottom 5 category of guys who deserve to be called out.

[uk_redwing 495]

That sounds similar to what was said before Downey got the old waiver and AHL treatment.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I cannot stand people who hate tougher guys for nothing else but them playing a different style of hockey then Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Flip play. May has done everything asked from him and then some. He is literally in the bottom 5 category of guys who deserve to be called out.

He wasn't called out in that post, and no one really has called him out, because he hasn't made any glaring mistakes.

No need to get angry over something that isn't even happening.

[Guest micah]

He wasn't called out in that post, and no one really has called him out, because he hasn't made any glaring mistakes.

Right - but by not making any glaring mistakes he's in a pretty small group as far as this year's Wings are concerned. Dude knows his job and does it well, regardless of whether the rest of the team is motivated or not. That's remarkable, and it's worthy of praise.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I like enforcers. Enforcers are good.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Excellent posts F.Michael, Doc Holiday, and Chunkylover! I enjoyed the posts, thank you for providing the stimulus.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I don't really understand why it's so hard for some people to believe that even "classy" guys like Zetterberg and Lidstrom like having a teammate who will beat the snot out of an opponent that pulls cheap crap after the whistle or takes liberties with them.

Edited October 31, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[Nev 1,085]

I like May's attitude.

I don't like this constant mischaracterization of the "fighter" debate, as if there are anti-fighters out there. Before May was signed all we heard was how "scared" Ken Holland was of having fighters and the team was going to lose because of it. Now that the Wings have a fighter, no one is out there starting threads about what a waste May is, because none of the accused "anti-fighters" thinks that way.

There are only those who support the decisions of the management and those who don't, or those who recognize the Wings record of success without a designated fighter and those who deny it.

As for the team defense thing. Howard needs to work on rebound control, our D-corps is soft, but could still play harder as you've pointed out, and the forwards need to get back and help out instead of looking to accelerate the transition.

I've been trying to say this for months, but it makes certain members feel better about themselves to invent straw men, and tenous arguments with which to battle these straw men. Even StormJH1s comments are being twisted into something they're not.

As for May and clearing the net, to be fair his fight against the Canucks might well saved us a goal when play was stopped with 3 Canucks round our net and a loose puck. Putting opposing forwards on their ass when they get round our net has been a problem for years - the Edmonton series was the first time I really noticed it, especially as their D was brutal in putting our forwards to the ice every chance they got. And now we've got a couple of goalies who can't control a rebound to save their lives, and are usually out of position when they do make a save, its become imperative to clear round our crease. Right now we only have 2 d-men with the size/strength to do that.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I've been trying to say this for months, but it makes certain members feel better about themselves to invent straw men, and tenous arguments with which to battle these straw men. Even StormJH1s comments are being twisted into something they're not.

As for May and clearing the net, to be fair his fight against the Canucks might well saved us a goal when play was stopped with 3 Canucks round our net and a loose puck. Putting opposing forwards on their ass when they get round our net has been a problem for years - the Edmonton series was the first time I really noticed it, especially as their D was brutal in putting our forwards to the ice every chance they got. And now we've got a couple of goalies who can't control a rebound to save their lives, and are usually out of position when they do make a save, its become imperative to clear round our crease. Right now we only have 2 d-men with the size/strength to do that.

Someone else had raised that point in another thread, and I'm fairly sure that the puck was in Howard's glove when play was stopped.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Your timing is ironic. The number one rationale for signing a fighter was that he'll keep our skill players safe. Since May was signed, Franzen and Filppula have gone down with injuries for reasons having nothing to do with fighting or goonery. Brad May plays less than 10 minutes a game, and anyone who thinks he has more of an impact on the outcome than even a 6th defenseman, like Lebda, is a fool.

In the 2007 playoffs, Brad May cheapshotted Kim Johnsson of the Wild and knocked him out for the series. The Wild happen to be the employer of Derek Boogaard, who (in anonymous polling) generally ranks as the most feared "goon" in the NHL. The following year, the Wild were in the Playoffs against the Avalanche and started getting cheap-shotted by cowards like Cody McLeod and Jeff Finger, none of which would ever consider dropping the gloves with a guy like Boogaard.

Which begs the question: If there's an instigator rule in place and guys cheapshot and injury players regularly even though there's "goons" on practically every NHL team, how does having one on your team help in any way, shape, or form. I don't care what Babcock or the players said in an article...May has no other purpose for being on this squad apart from being a fighter, so what are they supposed to say now that he's here? If he weren't here, I highly doubt they would tell the media "Yeah, we're just a bunch ******* and could really use some help!"

Finally, anyone who thinks that the team has played "well" or "better" since May got here....did you watch any games?

Well for some of us, it's called ENTERTAINMENT not about winning or losing.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Hockeymom1960

[Doc Holiday 0]

I don't really understand why it's so hard for some people to believe that even "classy" guys like Zetterberg and Lidstrom like having a teammate who will beat the snot out of an opponent that pulls cheap crap after the whistle or takes liberties with them.

I really don't understand where you got the idea that people even think that from.

Seriously, where?

[uk_redwing 495]

I really don't understand where you got the idea that people even think that from.

Seriously, where?

The street. People shout it randomly in a tourettes like fashion.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I really don't understand where you got the idea that people even think that from.

Seriously, where?

The street. People shout it randomly in a tourettes like fashion.

Ahh, I see the debate team is here.

in almost any thread where someone talks about a guy like May/Downey/(insert fighter here), there's the responses to the effect of "they're not gonna trash their teammates in public" to discount what the players or saying, or random injury examples to prove the enforcer didn't prevent them, therefore they're useless.

My point is that in spite of them not preventing Franzen from blowing out his knee and Flip breaking his wrist, the players have said time and time again how they like having someone out there to look out for them. It's not about preventing injuries, or even fighting for fighting's sake. It's about having guys to do the fighting when things get chippy, because it may not prevent injuries, but it does keep players a lot more honest. Someone had pointed out how when May crashes the net, there's rarely all the facewashing that goes on like when another player on the Wings does it. I wonder why that is?

The reality is, and the players have said this, they play a little bigger when you know someone has got your back.

Your timing is ironic. The number one rationale for signing a fighter was that he'll keep our skill players safe. Since May was signed, Franzen and Filppula have gone down with injuries for reasons having nothing to do with fighting or goonery. Brad May plays less than 10 minutes a game, and anyone who thinks he has more of an impact on the outcome than even a 6th defenseman, like Lebda, is a fool.

In the 2007 playoffs, Brad May cheapshotted Kim Johnsson of the Wild and knocked him out for the series. The Wild happen to be the employer of Derek Boogaard, who (in anonymous polling) generally ranks as the most feared "goon" in the NHL. The following year, the Wild were in the Playoffs against the Avalanche and started getting cheap-shotted by cowards like Cody McLeod and Jeff Finger, none of which would ever consider dropping the gloves with a guy like Boogaard.

Which begs the question: If there's an instigator rule in place and guys cheapshot and injury players regularly even though there's "goons" on practically every NHL team, how does having one on your team help in any way, shape, or form. I don't care what Babcock or the players said in an article...May has no other purpose for being on this squad apart from being a fighter, so what are they supposed to say now that he's here? If he weren't here, I highly doubt they would tell the media "Yeah, we're just a bunch ******* and could really use some help!"

Finally, anyone who thinks that the team has played "well" or "better" since May got here....did you watch any games?

Brad May is on the team.

Until a player is off the team, you will hear nothing but public praise for him from the front house. Do you really think a player won't hear badmouthing by a coach done publicly (much less privately?). You might hear he had a bad day or something if he messes something up, but that's about it.

"He made our team better", of course he has... Is this something worth making a thread about? No. It's laughable you bothered to highlight it. When's the last time you heard the front office say someone on the team sucks (well... with Babcock/Holland)?

All babcock has said in this article is May has accomplished/performed what has been expected of him.

Zetterberg defended Howard last night with a (not exact quote) "no we need to be better as a team" statement, literally minutes after he tried skating behind Howard to block a shot. A professional team/business/organization is not going to say bad things about themselves publicly.

This is exactly why Jimmy D's recent interview was so horrid, and why I'll keep bringing it up.

Edited for clarity.

Edited November 1, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[uk_redwing 495]

Ahh, I see the debate team is here.

Aaron Downey for GM.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Aaron Downey for GM.

Another fantastic post.

Way to elevate the level of discussion here.

[BruiseBrother 2]

I like how he said with the Bruise Brothers the Wings were tough to play against; meaning the Wings haven't been tough to play against since? Maybe I'm over analyzing his statement.

I have that fight against Gallant on VHS tape still, they were jawing for awhile before they dropped 'em....good fight.