Injuries do not add cap space

[Doggy 130]

With more injury/cap space talk happening with Williams going down, I thought it would be good to bump this thread. Thanks doggy and CaliWingsNut for answering my question. I think the issue though is the provision in the LTIR clause that states:

"However, if the unfit-to-play Player once again becomes fit to play, and the Club has not otherwise created any Payroll Room during the interim period, then the Player shall not be permitted to rejoin the Club until such time as the Club reduces its Averaged Club Salary to below the Upper Limit."

You guys are right that should the Commish think this scenario is a de facto circumvention of the salary cap, he could punish the Wings. I had not read that part before, so thanks for posting that. But the clause does essentially state that if a guy gets healthy, but you don't have cap space for him, he stays on the LTIR until there is cap space, regardless of his health.

Maybe someone should call into Bettman's radio show and find out what he thinks of this scenario!

Without having read any further into the seemingly endless depths of the CBA, it seems to me it's a very grey area. One that any smart GM would very cautiously tread. I know if I were Ken Holland I would definitely make come careful phone calls before I made any moves that could potentially get me hamstrung later in the season.

For me, the fact that such a precedent is yet to be set tells me it's probably not a good idea. I don't know. But long-term injuries are frequent and surely a GM would have done this if he could get away with it. Maybe it's simply that such a scenario hasn't not yet presented itself but I'm sure it would have at some stage.

[Wombat 26]

You're right that it would be treading on thin ice to go that way. Personally, I don't think it's the way to go for the Wings, as you wouldn't want to throw Franzen into the playoff mix without playing since October if you can avoid it.

[Buppy 1,720]

With more injury/cap space talk happening with Williams going down, I thought it would be good to bump this thread. Thanks doggy and CaliWingsNut for answering my question. I think the issue though is the provision in the LTIR clause that states:

"However, if the unfit-to-play Player once again becomes fit to play, and the Club has not otherwise created any Payroll Room during the interim period, then the Player shall not be permitted to rejoin the Club until such time as the Club reduces its Averaged Club Salary to below the Upper Limit."

You guys are right that should the Commish think this scenario is a de facto circumvention of the salary cap, he could punish the Wings. I had not read that part before, so thanks for posting that. But the clause does essentially state that if a guy gets healthy, but you don't have cap space for him, he stays on the LTIR until there is cap space, regardless of his health.

Maybe someone should call into Bettman's radio show and find out what he thinks of this scenario!

I think the combination of the two clauses is basically saying 'if a player can come off LTIR, then clear your cap and roster space in as soon as reasonably possible'.

[Buppy 1,720]

... Chicago currently is currently well over the cap. They will have to clear up over $3.4m to bring Hossa back onto the roster once he is in playing condition. They would also have to waive/demote/trade at least one forward. Realistically, they can solve two problems in one by ridding themselves of Cristobal Huet by this point, but you understand the example. Hossa makes more than $5m, but because Chicago was almost $2m under the cap the first $2m of his salary ate that up.

Sounds odd, but Chicago is actually under the cap, since they have about $5 mil in bonus cushion. They don't need to clear anything to activate Hossa.

According to capgeek, they haven't even claimed LTIR exemption for Hossa. Probably something to do with the bonuses.

Also, the Wings haven't claimed LTIR for Flip or Willy as of yet. No point in it if they aren't being replaced.

[Rivalred 630]

So let me get this straight.

LTIR players does not free up cap space?

[Doggy 130]

Sounds odd, but Chicago is actually under the cap, since they have about $5 mil in bonus cushion. They don't need to clear anything to activate Hossa.

According to capgeek, they haven't even claimed LTIR exemption for Hossa. Probably something to do with the bonuses.

Also, the Wings haven't claimed LTIR for Flip or Willy as of yet. No point in it if they aren't being replaced.

I wouldn't even bother trying to get my head around how many mistakes he's made in that post if I were you. It's a waste of time.

[egroen 384]

All Eva was saying, I believe, that in terms of the cap figuring, a team must first apply an LTIR's cap hit towards the actual cap ceiling first. Simply that if a team $9m under the cap loses a $10m player to LTI, that team can not exceed the cap by $10m, but they must first spend the $9m up to the cap and then only $1m beyond.

It's funny because it all essentially amounts to not counting a LTI's cap hit during the time he is out - which most people just assumed and is also a hell of a lot simpler to convey - lawyers for yah

Edited November 10, 2009 by egroen

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

So let me get this straight.

LTIR players does not free up cap space?

No.

Easiest way I can think of explaining it.

The cap space/$$ can be used for a replacement while the player is on LTIR, but does not add to our "wiggle room".

Holland cannot sign someone unless it's a temp gig.

I stated before I feel Holland won't do anything until it gets down to the wire as far as making the playoffs or doing well post season. I now think he's waiting on the Goalie situation till after Nick is locked up for sure (thus giving Jimmy the better part of a full season to hang himself).