Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) This summer Afinigenov's name came up in a few rumors and rambles regarding potential signings. While it seemed like the majority of this board was agasint it, I personally was displeased that Williams was signed instead of him. Both are far from complete players, but at a point in time (albeit brief), afinogenov was at least a top scorer in the league, and imo provided much more potential reward for the minimal salary. Afinigenov has been enjoying quite the resurgance in ATL, picking up a PPG. Granted he is paired with Kovalchuk, but last game he had a monster game with 2 goals and 2 assists, and was the best player on the Ice by far, easily outplaying Ilya. Seeing as his salary is only 800k, would you have prefered to sign him instead of Williams? I'd think he would put up similar stats with one of datsyuk/zettebrerg and Franzen. What would you say? In hindsight would u have prefered him instead of J willy? I think both of them get more flack then they should, especailly considering their roles, but Maxim seems to be a gamebreaker once more. Edited November 16, 2009 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Yup... I wanted him or Prospal on this team... He is going well for sure... He will be due to for a big pay increase... I hate to say this, but I do hope ATL does not make the playoffs and we can obtain him near the trade deadline. Edited November 16, 2009 by Rivalred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Honestly, I would have taken anyone or nothing over Williams. That being said, I have to give Williams credit. He was far better than I ever expected before the injury. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Four Report post Posted November 16, 2009 I always wanted Maxim, I had no idea why everyone didn't want him here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rice 42 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 I probably would've taken him over Williams but I don't think he would've made much of a difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zion 93 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 No. Not. Ever. (But I BARELY like Williams more) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 I probably would've taken him over Williams but I don't think he would've made much of a difference. Even with all the injuries with the exception of Williams? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted November 16, 2009 No. Not. Ever. (But I BARELY like Williams more) May I ask why? My logic is i'd rather have a potential ppg player that doesn't backcheck or play physical then a potential 50 pt a year player who dosen't backcheck or play physical... but can play point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 If you take a look at his career statistics, it's highly probable that he will miss a significant chunk of games. The points he's putting up right now are great but I would count on him playing more than 60 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsfan979802 0 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 If you take a look at his career statistics, it's highly probable that he will miss a significant chunk of games. The points he's putting up right now are great but I would count on him playing more than 60 games. and yet williams is out for 8 weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjm502 165 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Wait, someone please clarify this. HE IS ONLY MAKING 800K? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 I doubt he'll maintain his PPG pace. But even if he does. I doubt he'd do the same in Detroit. You have to remember he's on a line with Kovalchuk and Antropov, and they're meshing quite well. Detroit's just not like Atlanta. We roll 4 lines and expect to get offense from all of them. And whilst Kozlov, White and Little is a good 2nd line, it's painfully clear that they rely on Kovalchuk's line more. Further to that, it's very important for Detroit to have a good PP to remain competitive during the season and part Babcock and Holland feel it's extremely important to have a right-shooter to make it effective. Whether or not you agree, it is the reason Williams was signed over someone like Afinogenov. Frankly, I find it difficult to argue with the strategies of Kenny and Babs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Wait, someone please clarify this. HE IS ONLY MAKING 800K? Well prior to the signing he was a .5ppg player. The only area of his game that was consistent in the past two seasons was being injured. When you factor in his defensive ability and playoffs record, it makes the deal seem more fair I think. Maybe not $800k because of his great skills, but definitely below $1.5m IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Asking us this in the form of an 'in hindsight' question is rather silly; of course most would like to have Afinogenov, given his current production... but only if he keeps it up. Can we ask 'in hindsight' again at the end of the season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) I doubt he'll maintain his PPG pace. But even if he does. I doubt he'd do the same in Detroit. You have to remember he's on a line with Kovalchuk and Antropov, and they're meshing quite well. Detroit's just not like Atlanta. We roll 4 lines and expect to get offense from all of them. And whilst Kozlov, White and Little is a good 2nd line, it's painfully clear that they rely on Kovalchuk's line more. Further to that, it's very important for Detroit to have a good PP to remain competitive during the season and part Babcock and Holland feel it's extremely important to have a right-shooter to make it effective. Whether or not you agree, it is the reason Williams was signed over someone like Afinogenov. Frankly, I find it difficult to argue with the strategies of Kenny and Babs. How do you know that Ken and Babcock did not try to sign Afiogenov but he just wasen't interested? I know this most probably isn't the case, but you never know for sure. I am sure the familiarity with William's and his agent also played a role. Maxim was definatly more of a risk, but I persoanlly think that Ericcson could have learned to play the role on the point well enough given time. You are also insiuating that a large part of his production is based on the fact of his linemates. While I agree with that to an extent, do you personally think Williams would have similar points given the same situation? I think if you stuck Maxim with either one of the Euro Twins, and an acomplished top 6er (Cleary/Franzen/Holmstrom... Filpulla isn't included becasue a line of Maxim/ET/Filp would never ever shoot) and he would at least be able to put up 70 points. It's not like he's a scrub. He led the leauge in scoring for a large portion of the season a few years back. Imo he has far more natural talent the Jason williams does. If we were willing to take a risk on Eaves, I would have liked to take a risk with Afinogenov Edited November 16, 2009 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjm502 165 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Well prior to the signing he was a .5ppg player. The only area of his game that was consistent in the past two seasons was being injured. When you factor in his defensive ability and playoffs record, it makes the deal seem more fair I think. Maybe not $800k because of his great skills, but definitely below $1.5m IMO. I can not argue with the Wings staff either, but IMO he is one of the most skilled players in the NHL today. He seems to find a way to screw everything up, but I think this should have been the next "Cleary" to look at. He has tremendous amounts of talent, if we could put him with someone that he had chemistry with, and could up his work ethic you would see magic on the ice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Well prior to the signing he was a .5ppg player. The only area of his game that was consistent in the past two seasons was being injured. When you factor in his defensive ability and playoffs record, it makes the deal seem more fair I think. Maybe not $800k because of his great skills, but definitely below $1.5m IMO. While I don't disagree with the fact that 1.5 million would be an overpayment for the fact that he would be a huge risk, he was not a .5 ppg player before his contract. He just was the past 2 years. Before that he had a long period of well over 1 ppg, and seeing as he did not have any known injury problem/dramatic diffirence, one could assume that some of the talent could be untapped. Asking us this in the form of an 'in hindsight' question is rather silly; of course most would like to have Afinogenov, given his current production... but only if he keeps it up. Can we ask 'in hindsight' again at the end of the season? How is it silly that I'd like people's input? Maybe they'd argue that Williams would put the same amount of points with his linemates as some have/claim he would not work on the Wing's. Hell maybe evensome proponents of signing him earlier would get a chance to say I'm right. Theres a lot of threads regarding hind sight, thats the nature of the internet, this is a discussion forum, I'd like some input regarding a topic. I really see how some answers would obviously be biased given the situation but isnt that the case with everything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 How do you know that Ken and Babcock did not try to sign Afiogenov but he just wasen't interested? I no this most probably isn't the case, but you never know for sure. I am sure the familiarity with William's and his agent also played a role. Maxim was definatly more of a risk, but I persoanlly think that Ericcson could have learned to play the role on the point well enough given time. You are also insiuating that a large part of his production is based on the fact of his linemates. While I agree with that to an extent, do you personally think Williams would have similar points given the same situation? I think if you stuck Maxim with either one of the Euro Twins, and an acomplished top 6er (Cleary/Franzen/Holmstrom... Filpulla isn't included becasue a line of Maxim/ET/Filp would never ever shoot) and he would at least be able to put up 70 points. It's not like he's a scrub. He led the leauge in scoring for a large portion of the season a few years back. Imo he has far more natural talent the Jason williams does. Firstly, Ericsson is a left shooter so it doesn't relate to my point about Williams being a righty. I didn't insinuate it. I flat out said it. He has got great skills and he's tremendously talented. But Kovalchuk is a phenom and if you don't think he's boosted Max's stats, then I don't know what else to say to you. Three years ago he was good. But I think his play since then is more relevant. Looks like the GM's in the NHL agree too because he was signed late for $800k. Even Bertuzzi almost doubles that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Firstly, Ericsson is a left shooter so it doesn't relate to my point about Williams being a righty. I didn't insinuate it. I flat out said it. He has got great skills and he's tremendously talented. But Kovalchuk is a phenom and if you don't think he's boosted Max's stats, then I don't know what else to say to you. Three years ago he was good. But I think his play since then is more relevant. Looks like the GM's in the NHL agree too because he was signed late for $800k. Even Bertuzzi almost doubles that. I freely stated that. I also assume that Datsyuk and Zetterberg fit in the "phenom" catagory, as I flat out said it in my orginal post. Once agian, do you think Williams would score as many points on their line? All i'm saying is I'd rather would have Holland take a risk that would have paid off then sign Jason Williams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) While I don't disagree with the fact that 1.5 million would be an overpayment for the fact that he would be a huge risk, he was not a .5 ppg player before his contract. He just was the past 2 years. Before that he had a long period of well over 1 ppg, and seeing as he did not have any known injury problem/dramatic diffirence, one could assume that some of the talent could be untapped. Well, yeah. Why would GM's give care about stats 3 years ago over last years?? And please define a long period for me. Because he's had 61 pts in 56 games once and that's the only time in his career he's been above PPG. So again, I think his more recent 36 pts in 104 games is more significant of a stat. Edited November 16, 2009 by Doggy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Well, yeah. Why would GM's give care about stats 3 years ago over last years?? And please define a long period for me. Because he's had 61 pts in 56 games once and that's the only time in his career he's been above PPG. So again, I think his more recent 36 pts in 64 games is more significant of a stat. My point was that he obviosuly had talent, and it is very rare that talent rarely leaves a person his age without any signifigant injury. Is it really that hard to grasp? You are right a lot of GM's apparently agreed with you. So far all those GM's have been WRONG, as evidenced by him putting up the most points per cap hit in the league (disregarding entry contracts). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 Afinigenov is one of those players I cannot see flourishing as a Red Wing. Nothing against him, I just can't imagine him fitting into the Red Wing's style. Williams was atleast drafted and developed as a Red Wing, he doesn't have a great two way game, but he's at least our "token defensively irresponsible guy". I don't really see how Afinigenov would of impacted the struggling start with us, would of helped a little offensively I suppose, but I don't think he would of made that much of an improvement. Salary difference could offer us a little more comfort, but now that we have plenty of space for the foreseeable future I don't see that as a gigantic selling point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lidstromboli Report post Posted November 16, 2009 williams was never drafted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 My point was that he obviosuly had talent, and it is very rare that talent rarely leaves a person his age without any signifigant injury. Is it really that hard to grasp? You are right a lot of GM's apparently agreed with you. So far all those GM's have been WRONG, as evidenced by him putting up the most points per cap hit in the league (disregarding entry contracts). You talked about stats and I just corrected you. I know he's got talent. I was simply explaining why his contract is so small and why IMO he's overachieving right now. Just because I'm discussing other things it doesn't mean I haven't grasped your point. While I'm ackowledging his ability and talent, I don't think he's as great as you do. There's really nothing more to argue about, we just have differing opinions, that's all. I also think we could wait a little longer to see how good his production is. It has only been 16 games and he's very streaky, I'm sure you could agree with that. His confidence is up though, and that's an important thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soultrain 43 Report post Posted November 16, 2009 No. Not. Ever. (But I BARELY like Williams more) yeah...$800k. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
