Hey, newsflash panic-maniacs

[Nev 1,085]

They certainly are right now, but I think their objective is pretty clear: keep their heads above water until they can get a few guys back. Hovering around 10th place or whatever is not ideal or where we'd like them to be, but considering the circumstances, that they are still well-within striking distance of the rest of the conference is a plus.

I agree and disagree. With all our injuries, staying in a playoff spot, or within touching distance of a playoff spot, is what our objective should be, and hopefully once all our players are back after the Olympic break we should be able to push for a 4th or 5th seed.

But I disagree about hovering around 10th. Its not about being 1 or 2 places out of the playoffs, its about staying 1 or 2 points out of the playoffs. If we're 10th come the Olympics, but 7 points out of 8th spot, then we're shagged.

But as others have said, if we make the playoffs and everyone is healthy, no-one but no-one will want to face us, 8th seed or not. I recall one of the Bulls championship runs, they struggled during the regular season with a lot of injuries. Phil Jackson was happy just to make the playoffs as long as everyone was healthy, knowing the seeding wasn't a true reflection of his teams quality.

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

Bla bla bla we have so many injuries so we shouldn't complain about losing. But here is the newsflash: In April when teams start clinching playoff spots, the NHL isn't going to say "Oh those poor Red Wins had so many injuries and would have had a much better record if they had Franzen the whole season. This isn't fair...let's just give them the last spot and kick out the current 8th seed." It's not going to happen. I don't care how many injuries there are. If they don't make playoffs I will be very upset and I have a right to be.

Just because we have injuries doesn't mean Lebda and Meech can't stop sucking. It doesn't mean Hank and Pav can't step up even more this year. The whole team needs to step it up.

[seeinred 1,488]

The Wings are NOT .500, haven't been for a good stretch now, and won't be for the rest of the season. After another 20-30 games, expect them to be where they usually are during the regular season = 60% wins, 30% losses, 10% one pointers.

I've begun to see you in a new light, Mr. Ryan.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I hate these kinds of threads.

So does this mean that we shouldn't criticize Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Rafalski, Bertuzzi and Leino for not being consistent and producing offensively?

Since when did star players have to rely on guys like Flip and Franzen to carry them? Our top 3 players have been untouched this year when it comes to injuries.

Let me put it this way. I place no blame on Franzen, Flip, Kronwall, Williams and Lilja for this season's struggles. The other guys in the lineup are fair game if they aren't playing up to their potential.

[Jake Ryan 1]

Not winning at least half of games played = below 500

Wings = not winning at least half of games played

Do a little algebra:

Wings = below .500

So instead of false optimism and the happy-happy-joy-joy routine, what's worth noting is that despite having a pretty bad season, we're only 6 points away from leading the division, albeit with the Blackhawks having a game in hand. Being the #3 seed is about just as likely as being the #8.

Ok, so you've decided to rewrite the NHL scoring books. OTL's are not LOSSES that count against the .500 mark. They go down as 1 point, which means the team took HALF of the points they could that game. So out of a possible 58 points, the Wings now have 33. How is 33 below half of 58? It's not. So stop with the negative semantics and come back to reality. The Wings are about to get a few HUGE shots in the arm with Filppula, Williams, and Kronwall coming back. They are also going through a stretch of games right now that aren't as difficult. I expect things to be a lot different in 2 to 3 weeks.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

But I disagree about hovering around 10th. Its not about being 1 or 2 places out of the playoffs, its about staying 1 or 2 points out of the playoffs. If we're 10th come the Olympics, but 7 points out of 8th spot, then we're shagged.

We're on the same page, that's what I meant to say to when I said "well-within striking distance of the rest of the conference."

Bla bla bla we have so many injuries so we shouldn't complain about losing. But here is the newsflash: In April when teams start clinching playoff spots, the NHL isn't going to say "Oh those poor Red Wins had so many injuries and would have had a much better record if they had Franzen the whole season. This isn't fair...let's just give them the last spot and kick out the current 8th seed."

I'm sure no one's saying that. Injuries aren't fair but that's just the role luck plays in a long and grinding NHL season. They aren't anywhere close to missing the playoffs right now, though.

So does this mean that we shouldn't criticize Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Rafalski, Bertuzzi and Leino for not being consistent and producing offensively?

You won't get much argument from me. I think Pavel is not only being hurt by the loss of linemates but the team's depth is obviously not what it once was, and the players he's working with now are not even close. As much as getting Franzen back will help, it will help just as much to get Bert or Leino off the top line.

Lidstrom, though, is playing with the same guys he's always had on the power play, where he makes most of his hay offensively, so he's got no excuse for not producing -- other than suddenly becoming an old man, which is a whole different problem for the Wings then. We're a third of the way through the season and he's not shown much, but there isn't anything else to do other than have patience (except panic, anyways ).

[Z and D for the C 712]

Ok, so you've decided to rewrite the NHL scoring books. OTL's are not LOSSES that count against the .500 mark. They go down as 1 point, which means the team took HALF of the points they could that game. So out of a possible 58 points, the Wings now have 33. How is 33 below half of 58? It's not. So stop with the negative semantics and come back to reality. The Wings are about to get a few HUGE shots in the arm with Filppula, Williams, and Kronwall coming back. They are also going through a stretch of games right now that aren't as difficult. I expect things to be a lot different in 2 to 3 weeks.

A loss is a loss. The wings aren't winning half of their games. These are the facts.

[Opie 308]

A loss is a loss. The wings aren't winning half of their games. These are the facts.

I agree with you to an extent and then I agree with Jake Ryan.

A win is a win, a loss is a loss except when it happens in ot or in a shootout.

Then thanks to the crappy split point rule it is either a win or it is a point.

The NHL has changed the loss being a loss.

To you or I as a fan a loss may be a loss, because our team didn't win.

But in the eyes of the NHL standings a loss in OT or shootout is no longer a loss, as a loss gets you 0 points.

Therefore if the Wings are actually getting points and not winning, I don't know what to call it a Wiss, a lon?

Either way it is more points than a loss.

So like Jake said, 33 points out of 58 total is better than .500 hockey. The problem with this theory is .500 has less to due with the standings than GF or GA.

Win % is a measure of nothing in the new NHL.

Points are all that matter anymore so therefore earning more than 50% of the points has now become the equivalent of being over .500.

Confused? I am!

Can we get back to 2 for a W and 0 for a loss, any loss, OT or Shoot out or Regulation, loss is a loss is 0 points!

How many years did we as Wings fans complain about teams like Dallas that made the playoffs due to the split point rule? It happens every year, why not the Wings this year.

[Jake Ryan 1]

A loss is a loss. The wings aren't winning half of their games. These are the facts.

Ok, you're right. If a team went 41-0-41 and ended up with 123 points, they'd be considered a .500 team and all the fans would be terrified if they were going to make the playoffs.

[dobbles 252]

the whole "at least we're above .500" crap is made up to make fans feel good about their team even though they still suck.

while you can look at the math either way, fact of the matter is that most teams end up at over .500 because of the loser point. many of those teams miss the playoffs. many of them aren't very good either.

so if thats the type of team you want to group the wings with, go for it. because either way you look at the math fact of the matter remains that the wings are closer to the bottom of the standing than they are to the top.

also, i gotta side with the folks who think threads like these are far more annoying than threads that pick on players.

[dobbles 252]

just to add to it:

last year 23 teams finished above .500

2 years ago 24 teams finished above .500

3 years ago 21 teams finished above .500

4 years ago 22 teams finished above .500

this year, 26 teams are at or above .500... only florida, anaheim, toronto, and carolina are 'under .500.'

the loser point makes .500 much less meaningful than any other sport.

meaningless statistic - a team has not finished with 82 points since buffalo did it in 2001-02

Edited December 8, 2009 by dobbles

[b.shanafan14 733]

lets whine about whining

haha +100 internets

[Opie 308]

the whole "at least we're above .500" crap is made up to make fans feel good about their team even though they still suck.

while you can look at the math either way, fact of the matter is that most teams end up at over .500 because of the loser point. many of those teams miss the playoffs. many of them aren't very good either.

so if thats the type of team you want to group the wings with, go for it. because either way you look at the math fact of the matter remains that the wings are closer to the bottom of the standing than they are to the top.

also, i gotta side with the folks who think threads like these are far more annoying than threads that pick on players.

Warning I am not a "Wings win the cup or they suck fan", as long as the Wings are still competitive and don't strive to hit the cap floor, I will not *****. I expect my teams in all sports to make the post season, anything less is a failure, if they are the top seed and lose to the 8 I am ok, would I be happier with a cup, sure but I understand that with the cap in place Islander/Oiler dominance will not happen again, and the Wings are the closest we will ever see to that in the cap era.

You are right being 6 points out of first place in the division and 3rd overall in thedivision before the all star break with 5 key injuries is a horrble spot to be, we should all go around trashing the players and give up on the season!

But lets say I am stubborn and don't want to, here are somethings I take solace in!

Right now points wise (which is all that matters btw) the wings are 10 points out of first in the West and 6 from the worst spot.

Sure they are closer to the bottom, but they are still in the thick of it. With a win, flat out win no splits, the Wings could move from 9th to 7th in the division, another win (while those in front lose) and they are tied for 6th and 2 points away from 3rd in the conference.

So while you go around saying the Wings suck and bash players, I am going to look at it like this.

They are in the hunt for the playoffs, with 5 key injuries and the lose of a lot of goals from last year, they have a rookie in net, The D is being pasted together, Datsyuk is colder than ice right now, Bert is struggling, they have a top line and 3 lines made up of mostly bottom 6 guys.

I say hell it could be a lot worse, but I am an optimist so to me, I always think my team will pull it out until the end when they cannot!

OH and BTW where did ANA start the playoffs last year? And who was a tougher WC foe than the Ducks?

And besides one s***ty year in 20 does not mean the team sucks and is pathetic, the Dead Wings sucked and were pathetic.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Opie

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The problem with threads like these (I have made them too, how else would I know what I am about to say) is that you never get the satisfaction you are looking for. The Wings are winning/playing well right now. The lunatic fringe is nowhere to be found, only logical sensible posters are around. Until the next blowout or losing streak the people you want to read this probably won't and even if they do they will never post in it.

You are right though, the team is building an identity and playing better. Getting big contributions from unexpected places. Where would they be without Howard, Abbie, Miller, Eaves, May, Ericsson, Stuart and the likes.

Last year when the D struggled the superlative laden offense stepped up. This year team D and goaltending will be huge, the O needs to step up a little more but I can easily see this team making the post season. With the work effort they are learning early on, which hopefully continues, and the skill that will come back this team could be a potent foe in the post season.

It is all about getting healthy and hot at the right time, I would like to see the Wings go into a post season working for it instead of coasting into it. I think the former is a much better mode to be in for the last couple of weeks. Coasting leads to bad habits.

This is the least impressive Wings team I can remember seeing in a long, long while.

I really miss the days of us being able to put out an unfathomable lineup and literally just take it to teams and almost have wins be a foregone conclusion.

I think the boys are doing all that they can. But i'm not super enthusiastic about the lineup. Especially the forwards. Even with Flip and Franzen back I'm not really sold on us being uber competitive come playoff time.

Just think about it. The Wings used to be able to roll people. Just send out a dominant, superior in talent group and win 60-65% of their games, even if they play poorly.

That's pretty much gone. It's a battle every night. However, IMHO, the Wings are not built to battle like that. We've shown we can do it in spurts, like beating Anaheim in 7 last year. But you could say it was a phyrric victory because it took a heavy toll on everybody.

Take away the gigantic advantage we had by having far superior talent and you're left with group that still has good talent, but cannot dominate the play like they used to and will have to be a more playoff style team each and every night.

Some might see that as a good thing in that it will harden us and make us ready.

I see it as taking a toll already. Beating up our players and forcing them into a structure, a style of play we aren't accustomed to night in and night out, having to go against teams that have made a living playing that way due to a lack of uber high end talent throughout their lineups.

We hear it all the time, the team that plays their game wins. Well, right now we're trying to play a different kind of game than we're used to and i'm not confident we're ready to excel at that.

We're currently 9th in the West, just 4 games over .500. 10th out of 15 teams in goals for and a respectable 7th in goals against.

This is the least enthusiastic I have been about a Wings lineup, probably dating back 12 years or so.

I hope for the best but I'm not expecting a Cup this year. Some might say that makes me not a fan. I don't buy that. I just think I am being pragmatic. Put it this way, I like to gamble. But I like to win my bets. I wouldn't bet on the Wings to hoist the cup this year. I would consider that a long shot bet. Just my 2 cents.

Edited December 8, 2009 by GordieSid&Ted

[Jake Ryan 1]

I'm curious to see how much cap space the Wings have when the deadline arrives. These injuries should free up some room for a last minute acquisition. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wings get one of those UFA's toward the end of the year like Kariya or Jokinen.

Starting the 2nd round of the playoffs:

Holmstrom-Zetterberg-Franzen

Jokinen-Datsyuk-Cleary

Williams-Filppula-Berrtuzzi

Helm-Draper-Abdelkader

Lidstrom-Meech

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Rafalski

Osgood

Howard

I like our chances.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Ok, you're right. If a team went 41-0-41 and ended up with 123 points, they'd be considered a .500 team and all the fans would be terrified if they were going to make the playoffs.

Okay, you know how to exaggerate, super. Are you trying to make a point?

I'm not saying the wings won't make the playoffs, I'm sure they will, I'm just bringing the facts to the table. For those who say the wings are about .500: they are not, period. It's a win percentage, not a point percentage. The wings haven't won half of thier games, they are below .500.

For what it's worth: One team that didn't win half of their games (ie below .500) got into the playoffs, and it was a RAZOR SHARP line that they got in on. the other 15 teams won at least half of their games (ie at or above .500).

[Opie 308]

This is the least impressive Wings team I can remember seeing in a long, long while.

I really miss the days of us being able to put out an unfathomable lineup and literally just take it to teams and almost have wins be a foregone conclusion.

I think the boys are doing all that they can. But i'm not super enthusiastic about the lineup. Especially the forwards. Even with Flip and Franzen back I'm not really sold on us being uber competitive come playoff time.

Just think about it. The Wings used to be able to roll people. Just send out a dominant, superior in talent group and win 60-65% of their games, even if they play poorly.

That's pretty much gone. It's a battle every night. However, IMHO, the Wings are not built to battle like that. We've shown we can do it in spurts, like beating Anaheim in 7 last year. But you could say it was a phyrric victory because it took a heavy toll on everybody.

Take away the gigantic advantage we had by having far superior talent and you're left with group that still has good talent, but cannot dominate the play like they used to and will have to be a more playoff style team each and every night.

Some might see that as a good thing in that it will harden us and make us ready.

I see it as taking a toll already. Beating up our players and forcing them into a structure, a style of play we aren't accustomed to night in and night out, having to go against teams that have made a living playing that way due to a lack of uber high end talent throughout their lineups.

We hear it all the time, the team that plays their game wins. Well, right now we're trying to play a different kind of game than we're used to and i'm not confident we're ready to excel at that.

We're currently 9th in the West, just 4 games over .500. 10th out of 15 teams in goals for and a respectable 7th in goals against.

This is the least enthusiastic I have been about a Wings lineup, probably dating back 12 years or so.

I hope for the best but I'm not expecting a Cup this year. Some might say that makes me not a fan. I don't buy that. I just think I am being pragmatic. Put it this way, I like to gamble. But I like to win my bets. I wouldn't bet on the Wings to hoist the cup this year. I would consider that a long shot bet. Just my 2 cents.

Like I said in the post you quoted, no more lunatic fringe, only logical posters are around right now.

I agree with everything you just said, I just think maybe it is a character builder, we won't know. The returning players could make them more skilled and therefore a better team, or when the players return the work ethic will be contagious. Neither of us will ever know.

Like you said the D is the savior right now, the offensive players returning, Fil and Williams (I personally have low expectations of what Mule will be bringing to the table, after coming back so quickly), could fill a void, if anything the second PP will get lots better, especially with a healthy Kronwall.

And I don't expect a cup either, I don't expect one every year, I just expect the Wings to be top 6 in the league (at the start of the year, injuries and other factors temper my expectations), right now I am hoping for a playoff spot and after that anything is possible!

Last year with Hossa I expected WCF, this year I expect playoff birth. Next year my expectations go up like the Wings cap space though!

[Opie 308]

I'm curious to see how much cap space the Wings have when the deadline arrives. These injuries should free up some room for a last minute acquisition. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wings get one of those UFA's toward the end of the year like Kariya or Jokinen.

Starting the 2nd round of the playoffs:

Holmstrom-Zetterberg-Franzen

Jokinen-Datsyuk-Cleary

Williams-Filppula-Berrtuzzi

Helm-Draper-Abdelkader

Lidstrom-Meech

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Rafalski

Osgood

Howard

I like our chances.

This is where you lost me, they don't have a s*** ton of wiggle room, at the deadline Fil, Williams, Mule, Kronwall could all be back.

Then their salary is back on the cap and no more LTIR cap space.

Unless I am missing some fundamental part of the LTIR that means the cap space goes forward?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Like I said in the post you quoted, no more lunatic fringe, only logical posters are around right now.

I agree with everything you just said, I just think maybe it is a character builder, we won't know. The returning players could make them more skilled and therefore a better team, or when the players return the work ethic will be contagious. Neither of us will ever know.

Like you said the D is the savior right now, the offensive players returning, Fil and Williams (I personally have low expectations of what Mule will be bringing to the table, after coming back so quickly), could fill a void, if anything the second PP will get lots better, especially with a healthy Kronwall.

And I don't expect a cup either, I don't expect one every year, I just expect the Wings to be top 6 in the league (at the start of the year, injuries and other factors temper my expectations), right now I am hoping for a playoff spot and after that anything is possible!

Last year with Hossa I expected WCF, this year I expect playoff birth. Next year my expectations go up like the Wings cap space though!

On a personal level I love a team that battles. Anyone around here should know what a grit and toughness and fight fanatic I am. I would love for us to be able to dominate games by outmuscling, outhitting and donwright outpunishing the opposition.

But if you look at our lineup, we just aren't built to do that. We're a hit to impede team (aside from Kronner and Stuey). We're a bump and run kind of team. We don't have a Lucic or Neil or Clowe up front. We have Cleary, Abby, Helm. Great skaters, good hands guys that are invaluable in other areas of the game....and smart players as well. But they're being asked to do some real heavy sledding these days.

I feel very strongly that when playing a physical style, every night, there is a definite advantage to being bigger and stronger. Look at Helm. Helm is not 100%. He's got some injury bugs been nipping at him. Why is that? Look at him. He's a little guy playing a big man's style of game. When you're 180 and constantly trying to hit guys that are 205 to 225, it will wear you down faster than it will wear them down.

In my day, I lit up guys who were easily 20 pounds heavier than me. But I caught them at the right moment and it took everything I had to make those kinds of hits. Conversely, there was a guy I played against in high school (and in college eventually) who was about 6-2 or 3 and around 220. He lined me up one day along the boards, I saw him coming and he hit me so goddamned hard I thought I was crippled. My right leg buckled and I went down like WTF was that. The sad truth is he probably didn't hit me as hard as he could've.

IMO, we're a bit too small and inexperienced up front to play a smashmouth type of system. Thankfully we still have some of the most talented guys in the league and our D is probably still more talented than anyone else. So we should have a good mix. I just worry about the wear factor and the injury bug with this type of style.

For example, let's say Flip and Franzen come back. But what if we lose Cleary or Helm? How do you replace some of the most physical players you have? You're going to need them b/c you don't have that domination in pure talent anymore. You don't have guys waiting in the Wings that are going to bring it physically like those guys. We need that physicality to compete and I think we're not ready nor built that way yet.

Of course we may never be. One look at how we draft and you can see a continuation of us drafting more to the European style that has served us so well vs the NA style that we're trying to play now. The majority of guys we drafted this year are under 6 feet tall and around 170-180 pounds. These are guys who will fill out to 190 maybe. That's well below the NHL average for height and weight. Just a thought.

[dobbles 252]

I'm curious to see how much cap space the Wings have when the deadline arrives. These injuries should free up some room for a last minute acquisition. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wings get one of those UFA's toward the end of the year like Kariya or Jokinen.

Starting the 2nd round of the playoffs:

Holmstrom-Zetterberg-Franzen

Jokinen-Datsyuk-Cleary

Williams-Filppula-Berrtuzzi

Helm-Draper-Abdelkader

Lidstrom-Meech

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Rafalski

Osgood

Howard

I like our chances.

first off, LTIR cap relief does not work how you think. it allows you to put someone on the roster to replace the injured salary. its not as if teh wings are able to collect the daily salary difference and keep it for the end of the year. their abilities are still limited. also, why would jokinen ever get moved? calgary is one of the top teams in the league right now, they will be adding at the trade deadline, not dumping players. i doubt st louis will be too open to trade away kariya either. especially to a division rival. thats not likely either.

[dobbles 252]

Warning I am not a "Wings win the cup or they suck fan", as long as the Wings are still competitive and don't strive to hit the cap floor, I will not *****. I expect my teams in all sports to make the post season, anything less is a failure, if they are the top seed and lose to the 8 I am ok, would I be happier with a cup, sure but I understand that with the cap in place Islander/Oiler dominance will not happen again, and the Wings are the closest we will ever see to that in the cap era.

You are right being 6 points out of first place in the division and 3rd overall in thedivision before the all star break with 5 key injuries is a horrble spot to be, we should all go around trashing the players and give up on the season!

But lets say I am stubborn and don't want to, here are somethings I take solace in!

Right now points wise (which is all that matters btw) the wings are 10 points out of first in the West and 6 from the worst spot.

Sure they are closer to the bottom, but they are still in the thick of it. With a win, flat out win no splits, the Wings could move from 9th to 7th in the division, another win (while those in front lose) and they are tied for 6th and 2 points away from 3rd in the conference.

So while you go around saying the Wings suck and bash players, I am going to look at it like this.

They are in the hunt for the playoffs, with 5 key injuries and the lose of a lot of goals from last year, they have a rookie in net, The D is being pasted together, Datsyuk is colder than ice right now, Bert is struggling, they have a top line and 3 lines made up of mostly bottom 6 guys.

I say hell it could be a lot worse, but I am an optimist so to me, I always think my team will pull it out until the end when they cannot!

OH and BTW where did ANA start the playoffs last year? And who was a tougher WC foe than the Ducks?

And besides one s***ty year in 20 does not mean the team sucks and is pathetic, the Dead Wings sucked and were pathetic.

i am not sure if your post was more directed at others or what, but you pretty much made up a ton of straw man characterizations that are not at all what i said or believe.

for what its worth, i could care less if we win the cup this year. as a fan, i am not selfish. we have won a lot of games and cups recently, so i can accept that other teams need their shot. of course i would love for us to win, but i don't expect it by any means. as a matter of fact, i have a motto that i tell people. i just want the wings to win 6 playoff games a year. to do so, you have to make it out of the first round and then make the 2nd round competitive. to me that makes it worth it. that means the wings didn't choke or get embarrassed in the playoffs. and that makes me happy. anything more than that is icing on the cake.

additionally, my post was more pointing out the issues with statistics and standings. while i personally bash bertuzzi whenever possible, i love every other red wing. i still like leino (though he could be a lot better) have always supported maltby, like lebda and meech, and love osgood. i rarely , if ever, bash wings players. for me, bertuzzi is the exception. i just don't like him as a player. (and its not because of moore, but totally off topic so i will leave it at that)

you get into the wings sucking and being pathetic, once again, i never said that. i respect what they have done with so many injuries. however, you will not see me talking about how happy i am with our current position. because, as stated before, its not that great. really all we have to cling to is "at least we're above .500!" and as i stated, thats a pretty empty statement these days.

so like i said, i am not sure where you got all this crap from my post. because none of it is what i said. maybe you were just venting what you have read from others and happened to quote me, i don't know. for someone that talks about the lunatic fringe being gone, you are acting an awful lot like them by mischaracterizing others for the sake of trying to be right.

[Opie 308]

WHOA!!

SORRY

I just re-read your original post and I mistook your post for another when I went on that diatribe!!!!!!!

SORRY!

Original Post Below, so as to show the asshat I really am!

My reaction was to your point about the threads bashing players were a better idea to you, that to me made me think you would rather bash them then root for them.

Therefore my response was to that train of thought.

If you meant something else by your statement then I stand corrected.

I exaggerated, sure but what is the internet for if not exaggeration.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Opie

[StevieY9802 6]

they are teetering on the edge of not making the playoffs, and it seems a lot of people don't want to admit it to themselves.

They are also 6 pts behind the #3 team in the West.

Man people around here really are glass is half empty kinda people are they? They are teetering on the edge of not making the playoffs with 53 games to go and 6 pts behind winning the central? There is a long way to go people chill out. They fact they are missing their #3 defenseman, their 3rd, or 2nd at times, line center and the guy who finished 2nd on the team in goals last year and they are only 6 pts behind the Hawks, who have been red hot, I'm surprised. I didn't even think they would be where they are. So am I happy? Yes and no. The positive that I look at is the Wings have beaten themselves recently in NJ and against Edmonton so if they can pull their heads out of their butts they will be ok.

Edited December 8, 2009 by StevieY9802

[Taylorov 37]

How many of you negative nancy's are willing to bet $100.00 that the Wings don't make the Playoffs?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

How many of you negative nancy's are willing to bet $100.00 that the Wings don't make the Playoffs?

No one. Negative nancies are usually unemployed, hence unable to come up with the money.