Chris Osgood proves Jimmy Howard should be in goal for Red Wings

[Pucks 66]

You act like a goalie gets a lifetime position if he has a cup. It doesn't happen that way. All he gets is an opportunity to defend his #1 position the following year. The Red wings brass have been ultra patient with Osgood. If he was on any other team last year he would have been out of the league. The Wings gave him time off to figure out what was going on. He played better and had a good run.

Look at Anaheim with Giguere. He had won a cup and Con Smythe. He also lost his job to a goalie that was playing better. They gave him plenty of time to get his game back, until they decided it wasn't going to happen. It works the same around the league, no matter who you are. Osgood hasn't shown anything in the games he's been giving to suggest that he can play better than Howard is, nothing. Not in GAA., not in Save %, not in Wins, nothing. Hell, you don't need any stats or special scouting ability to see that.

That's not bashing of Osgood, that's just the reality of calling it like it is. Every Red Wing fan in the world is hoping Osgood can play better. As for him not getting the respect he deserves, well it's his play over his career that made people form their opinion of him. He's been maddeningly inconsistent over his career, and the past couple of seasons have been no different. Regardless of what he's done in the past, he's not yet been able to help us this season.

If we were resting on our laurels, Hasek would still be in net. Say hello to 2010.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Pucks

[gcom007 1,465]

He had alright games to start out but the last few games mean more to me than those. I don't need to read GDTs or articles, I like to just use my eyes and I'm very good at it. Osgood looked better last year. Not by a ton, but still. This season he just looks absolutely lost whenever he's out there. I just don't buy the rust thing. According to him, he's been playing since he was a child. You should be able to take a few games off.

If rust was an issue, why did he play better early in the season according to you and a few others? Wouldn't the offseason be a killer?

Ozzie I don't think is a strong individual mentally. That's what I miss about Dom-he just didn't care what anyone thought, was confident in himself and had the guts to put up with any scenario Detroit hockey tossed at him.

What I think is happening, is Ozzie is losing it. He's 37 and towards the end of the playoffs last season he didn't look amazing. I think in the Pitt series he started having his faults shown a little more. The offseason I thikn probably sucked all the fumes he had left right out and dried him up.

He's frustrated but he's got to be more professional. I can only imagine how guilty Howard must feel sometimes. Imagine if you got drafted to play beside a 3 time Cup winner with triple digit wins, and played better and that goalie just complained. That's an awkward, unfair scenario to put the kid in. Babcock's a professional who made a business decision, and I can't see any logic supporting anyone saying it's the wrong one. We either conditioned Ozzie and sat in 12th place or we rode the hot goalie.

Of course he doesn't appreciate it. Although he's far from the most misunderstood player around so he needs to act professional and shut the f*** up, that's all. I understand what he's going through but that doesn't make it ok.

Stop telling me that, it's bulls***. He wasn't playing that good. He had maybe one small streak and a few decent games but if that's what we define as good, we've lowered the bar enough to stub a toe on it. Babcock is too stand up to throw anyone under the bus. He's just not a sugar-coater.

We needed wins and still do. This is insane, I can't believe people support him. What's more important? Making the playoffs? Or losing while conditioning your goalie?

And here's where some people are contradicting themselves-lately we've been saying it doesn't matter who starts because we're nto winning. I don't imagine he'd be playing better than Howard, so if we did condition him it'd be for naught right now, while the victories Howard earned us before, critical ones, would've been lost as well while we conditioned Ozzie.

Then maybe you're done when you can't handle this anymore.

Ozzie was just fine taking starts from Hasek when Babcock asked him to. Dom didn't complain, Dom congratulated him and befriended him and did what he had to do. He was confident and secure in himself and for good reason and he never became an issue.

It's pointless bringing up the Hasek/Ozzie 08 thing as Hasek will and should start over probably any goalie in history.

Dom never once dealt with anything close to what Osgood has dealt with this year and Dom played a lot worse at the start even. They were practically back to back in starts for the majority of the season. When Hasek was here, the "hot hand" of Osgood justified him at least getting regular starts, but by seasons end they were pretty much even in games played. Babcock gave him every benefit of the doubt under the sun and never sat him for long stretches of time. He never put Dom down in the media and incessantly supported Dom as the starter come playoff time. There was never a question of Babcock's support of Hasek at all.

That has absolutely not been the case this year for Chris Osgood. Not even close.

And I think you minimize Osgood's mental strength. Again, you don't last in Detroit as long as he has and win as many games if you're weak mentally, especially under Babcock and Bowman.

And while I don't necessarily believe it to be totally true, or at least as big of a deal as some made it out to be, back then the suggestion was that Babcock had to be so supportive in order to "coddle" Hasek, who always had to be the number one guy or he'd lose it and flip out.

I think realistically, everyone's got ego's, Dom and Osgood included. But also to some extent, I think what you interpret as "strong-minded," many people, former teammates included, interpreted as him being "self-centered." The whole not caring thing had something to do with screwing teams over a few times as well.

As far as rust in the beginning of the season, he played through training camp and then got a lot of starts in the beginning. There was never a time this season before he got the flu where he sat for any significant period of time.

And I'm not saying this to take away from Howard so much as to say we don't know how Osgood would've looked if he was in the groove playing behind the team once it tightened up defensively. Remembe, in the beginning of the season when Osgood was far better, the defense was as bad or worse than they've been lately. With all the injuries, particularly to the offense, we ended up finally tightening up on defense to compensate for decreased scoring and that's also around when Osgood got sick.

Again, I think Howard's been great and you can see all over that I'm never shy about giving Howard a lot of praise and support. I just don't think Osgood's been given even close to a fair chance to show what he's capable of, and while I still think right now you've got to give Howard more starts, Osgood still deserves a chance.

And I've not contradicted myself. I'm into winning, but the end of the season result means far more to me than the day to day stuff that most here sweat over. I'm not worried about making the playoffs and never have been. And I also think with a bit more of a regular rotation, Osgood would be more than capable of giving us a chance to win every night even if outplayed by Howard at times. I don't think the difference in wins and losses would be dramatically different either way, but I actually think we might have more wins if Osgood got more starts as I think Howard's rougher games likely have a lot to do with fatigue, likely more mental than physical.

And when it comes to the playoffs, if Osgood can do what he's done, there's no question in my mind that I want him as the starter as I think he's absolutely going to give us the best chance to go far. And to do that, he's gotta play more, even if Howard outplays him at times.

So rookie in the playoffs or Cup-winning veteran who's been the best playoff goalie the last two years? You talk about risks and winning. This should be easy. In the playoffs, you go with Osgood. That means Osgood needs to play.

The whole "stop sweating about the playoffs" is a different conversation. The goalies are irrelevant in my point of view on that matter.

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

You act like a goalie gets a lifetime position if he has a cup.

Osgood hasn't shown anything in the games he's been giving to suggest that he can play better than Howard is, nothing. Not in GAA., not in Save %, not in Wins, nothing. Hell, you don't need any stats or special scouting ability to see that.

That's not bashing of Osgood, that's just the reality of calling it like it is.

I never even defended Osgood's play as an individual. Much less acted like goalie is a lifetime position for anyone. Hockey is a team game and what you wrote about Osgood not showing anything is patently false. Go watch the games he starts in from November again because countless times you will see Osgood make a save, the announcer will comment about him saving the Red Wings' asses and then five minutes later it will happen again. And again. Breakaways, giveaways, open shots in the slot, massive screens - things that no goalie would have a chance on but they were stopped.

Did it change the end score of 1-3? It wasn't 1-7, I guess that's all I can say. You can interpret reality however you like and if you like Howard that's fine by me, I'm just making sure people understand your statements should be taken with a huge grain of salt, even if what you are saying about the future is correct.

[Guest zackmorris]

I never even defended Osgood's play as an individual. Much less acted like goalie is a lifetime position for anyone. Hockey is a team game and what you wrote about Osgood not showing anything is patently false. Go watch the games he starts in from November again because countless times you will see Osgood make a save, the announcer will comment about him saving the Red Wings' asses and then five minutes later it will happen again. And again. Breakaways, giveaways, open shots in the slot, massive screens - things that no goalie would have a chance on but they were stopped.

You want to talk about patently false, look at this paragraph.

The problem with some people like you is you can't talk to them. You're just plain out and out lying now. Osgood never consistently saved our asses this season.

There is no debating it, Ozzie is the s***s this year. You can see who the true fanboys are when they just have to make s*** up.

Ozzie hasn't shown a thing this year to warrant any respect. You're getting to the point where if he makes a routine save you'll be telling us we were wrong about him. How small do the sample sizes need to get to justify your boy?

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

You're getting to the point where if he makes a routine save you'll be telling us we were wrong about him. How small do the sample sizes need to get to justify your boy?

Look, you can read into what other people have written all you want as well, but stick to what I wrote. The sample size you appear to be operating on is the game against Minnesota. It doesn't even sound like you watched the games from November, but I'll take your continued smack-talk as evidence that you're watching now.

You want to continue bashing Osgood? Proceed forthwith. Just understand you can bash the guy on the bench all you want and it still won't get your team wins, even if you do succeed in keeping him benched.

[Guest zackmorris]

Dom never once dealt with anything close to what Osgood has dealt with this year and Dom played a lot worse at the start even.

Dom didn't play alot worse, that's just a pile of bulls***. Dom put up with alot here, don't micromanage arguments because you're stubborn.

They were practically back to back in starts for the majority of the season. When Hasek was here, the "hot hand" of Osgood justified him at least getting regular starts, but by seasons end they were pretty much even in games played. Babcock gave him every benefit of the doubt under the sun and never sat him for long stretches of time.

Because we weren't sitting in 9th place fighting for points.

He never put Dom down in the media and incessantly supported Dom as the starter come playoff time. There was never a question of Babcock's support of Hasek at all.

And never a word from Dom badmouthing the coaching staff.

You're just thinking backwards, that's all. Babcock didn't question Ozzie until Ozzie opened his mouth questioning the coaching staff.

This is not hard to understand-f*** CONDITIONING. Winning is higher on any sane human being's priority list when you're in 10th place and one goalie is amazing and the other has been s***.

And I think you minimize Osgood's mental strength. Again, you don't last in Detroit as long as he has and win as many games if you're weak mentally, especially under Babcock and Bowman.

Maybe that's exactly the reason he was ousted once before and it's taking a ton of patience not to do it again. Makes sense now doesn't it? Maybe he was a mentally "eh" kind of person who scraped by with a great team around him and a winning attitude, all we do know for sure is the first time we're not dominating, he seems to crumble.

And while I don't necessarily believe it to be totally true, or at least as big of a deal as some made it out to be, back then the suggestion was that Babcock had to be so supportive in order to "coddle" Hasek, who always had to be the number one guy or he'd lose it and flip out.

That's a lie, sorry, but if you think that you don't know Dom. He was never self centered, jsut trust me, I'm right. You're guessing, and I know.

As far as rust in the beginning of the season, he played through training camp and then got a lot of starts in the beginning. There was never a time this season before he got the flu where he sat for any significant period of time.

You're missing the point entirely-if a big gap of playing time missed is enough to have rust set in, why was he able to supposedly play well after a 2 month break? Don't give me training camp, that's why they practice hard consistently.

And I'm not saying this to take away from Howard so much as to say we don't know how Osgood would've looked if he was in the groove playing behind the team once it tightened up defensively. Remembe, in the beginning of the season when Osgood was far better, the defense was as bad or worse than they've been lately. With all the injuries, particularly to the offense, we ended up finally tightening up on defense to compensate for decreased scoring and that's also around when Osgood got sick.

Don't ever use the term far better. I've noticed the Ozzie fanboys trying to subtly shift their collective opinions to support some false claim Ozzie at one point was playing good.

He wasn't. Stop. Just, seriously, stop. You look ridiculous.

Ozzie had his chances. He looks like s***. That's all there is to it.

I always knew if this happened, the Ozzie fanboys would fight it to the death. Good to know I was right.

And I've not contradicted myself. I'm into winning, but the end of the season result means far more to me than the day to day stuff that most here sweat over. I'm not worried about making the playoffs and never have been

They don't hand out rings for conditioning your goalie. Get your priorities straight. If we're not playing for the playoffs, why even take to the ice?

And I also think with a bit more of a regular rotation, Osgood would be more than capable of giving us a chance to win every night even if outplayed by Howard at times.

And lose even more games in the process? The only way your argument would make any ounce of sense would be if Howard wasn't playing out of his mind. But he is, and we can't waste starts.

This is not difficult to understand, wtf people, c'mon. Even if you think the wins/losses difference would be minimal, in 9th place, minimal is still insanely critical.

Howard's a kid, I seriously doubt he's getting fatigued. That's just like the rust excuse-it seems nice on the surface and sounds like it would be right but it's not.

And when it comes to the playoffs, if Osgood can do what he's done, there's no question in my mind that I want him as the starter as I think he's absolutely going to give us the best chance to go far. And to do that, he's gotta play more, even if Howard outplays him at times.

I just find this to be typical human behavior, which I've never endorsed-find out something the hard way. Stubbornly stick to a comforting pattern and find out that pattern's broken, and only when it's too late.

With every game Ozzie s***s the bed and every game Howard plays lights out, my opinion is shifting slightly more towards playing Howard. I don't care if he's a "rookie", as that's a spin job if I've ever seen one. He's not a true rookie by NHL standards, and rookies have done well in the playoffs before. You're just going off of the past, when the past has no real say in what's going on with our team currently. If Howard keeps doing this, start him. We're going to ride a 2 season streak right into a 1st round loss with Ozzie in there playing like this. f*** the past, it's irrelevant here and now. There's also the future aspect-Howard is our future, and unless you're going to mount Ozzie's head onto a robot skeleton and give it the start in April...we'd may as well put him in now, while Ozzie is playing (and talking) his way out of the starting gig in the postseason. Or should we just wait until we HAVE to play him, when our team is even more of a contender later on?

[Guest zackmorris]

Look, you can read into what other people have written all you want as well, but stick to what I wrote. The sample size you appear to be operating on is the game against Minnesota.

Uh, no. Sorry but you sound like you're very young and making out of nowhere assumptions. Ozzie didn't wow anyone in November, it's just that his fanboys are running out of things to say.

So let's take a look at this amazing November, shall we?

He played 6 games. One, I wouldnt' begin to call that anything to write home about. Secondly, he won 2 of them. He had 3 good games, 3 blah ones. His numbers drop drastically (esp with the small sample size) because of one shutout. Hell, he got a shutout and still had a save percentage below 900. This is the month I'm supposed to believe was amazing? Well realistically, Boston was a cakewalk. SJ was the only real good game, and he did great. But you can't just rely on that.

You want to continue bashing Osgood? Proceed forthwith. Just understand you can bash the guy on the bench all you want and it still won't get your team wins, even if you do succeed in keeping him benched.

See, this is the problem-is it bashing, or is it that he's played so piss poorly that simply pointing out the truth makes it look like we're bashing him? Pucks and a few others are the only level headed people here sometimes.

Edited February 1, 2010 by zackmorris

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

don't micromanage arguments because you're stubborn.

Because we weren't sitting in 9th place fighting for points.

And never a word from Dom badmouthing the coaching staff.

Not what I remember. Constant hand-wringing by fans about sitting him when other goalies were playing better is what I remember. Not that other goalies were getting more starts than him, but that he was being made to sit. Like Vernon. Nobody wanted to believe Dom was a Vernon-level goalie, even though he had a Hasek-level salary. Thankfully, "he was a professional."

You're just thinking backwards, that's all. Babcock didn't question Ozzie until Ozzie opened his mouth questioning the coaching staff.

Is that a fact? I heard the only reason Osgood was interviewed was based on comments by the coach to the press. I'm sure you've got some references here. Well, let's have 'em.

This is not hard to understand-f*** CONDITIONING. Winning is higher on any sane human being's priority list when you're in 10th place and one goalie is amazing and the other has been s***.

That's a lie, sorry, but if you think that you don't know Dom. He was never self centered, jsut trust me, I'm right. You're guessing, and I know.

I've noticed the Ozzie fanboys...

Just, seriously, stop. You look ridiculous.

He looks like s***. That's all there is to it.

I always knew if this happened, the Ozzie fanboys...

They don't hand out rings for conditioning your goalie.

The only way your argument would make any ounce of sense would be if Howard wasn't playing out of his mind.

Howard's a kid, I seriously doubt he's getting fatigued. That's just like the rust excuse-it seems nice on the surface and sounds like it would be right but it's not.

I just find this to be typical human behavior, which I've never endorsed-find out something the hard way. Stubbornly stick to a comforting pattern and find out that pattern's broken, and only when it's too late.

With every game Ozzie s***s the bed and every game Howard plays lights out, my opinion is shifting slightly more towards playing Howard. I don't care if he's a "rookie", as that's a spin job if I've ever seen one. He's not a true rookie by NHL standards, and rookies have done well in the playoffs before.

The way you have framed this argument, though, you would think starting Chris Osgood 1 our of every 6 games would still be unreasonable. So you hate Osgood. We get it.

[Pucks 66]

Chris get's it, now how about the rest of you jump on board the 2010 train.

"I've played a ton of games, and sure, I still want to play," Osgood said Saturday, before the Wings departed for Pittsburgh. "But I owe it to Howie and the team. It's kind of like the past reclaims itself. We've not totally switched roles, but I had guys -- Mike Vernon, Tim Cheveldae, Vincent Riendeau -- who helped me. There's no way I could've been here by myself, without the older guys' help. It'd be selfish of me to act any other way."

-- Chris Osgood

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Actually, it's Jimmy Howard who is proving that Jimmy Howard should be in goal for the Wings.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Chris get's it, now how about the rest of you jump on board the 2010 train.

"I've played a ton of games, and sure, I still want to play," Osgood said Saturday, before the Wings departed for Pittsburgh. "But I owe it to Howie and the team. It's kind of like the past reclaims itself. We've not totally switched roles, but I had guys -- Mike Vernon, Tim Cheveldae, Vincent Riendeau -- who helped me. There's no way I could've been here by myself, without the older guys' help. It'd be selfish of me to act any other way."

-- Chris Osgood

Funny, everyone is saying that.

[Pucks 66]

Funny, everyone is saying that.

I wish that were true, because this thread would only be 1 page long instead of 7. I wish mods would just lock these threads when the discussions lead nowhere but circles. Early on these topics had some merit but they've been irrelevant for months.

[clutchngrab 12]

I wish that were true, because this thread would only be 1 page long instead of 7. I wish mods would just lock these threads when the discussions lead nowhere but circles. Early on these topics had some merit but they've been irrelevant for months.

But that would eliminate all the fun of reading each subsequent slappie post as Howard plays lights out and Osgood shows he's washed up. It is an interesting study of fan obsession when arguments are still being made to play Osgood despite all the available evidence - including the Wing's positioning in the standings.

Edited February 1, 2010 by clutchngrab

[Vladifan 680]

To those of you who once again, have managed to turn a positive, informational thread to s*** -

Since we need two goalies ready to play at any time

SINCE YOU BELIEVE OZZIE IS USELESS, WHAT'S YOUR SPECIFIC SOLUTION? WHO DO WE GET FOR THE SECOND GOALIE AND HOW DO WE GET HIM?

And yeah, I'm yelling because your arrogant, aimless personal zings are idiotic and time-wasting.

WHAT'S YOUR SOLUTION? PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

EDIT: I put this on the wrong thread, but it's still valid right here and now. Anybody? Anybody with a creative answer??!

Edited February 1, 2010 by Vladifan

[Guest zackmorris]

To those of you who once again, have managed to turn a positive, informational thread to s*** -

Since we need two goalies ready to play at any time

SINCE YOU BELIEVE OZZIE IS USELESS, WHAT'S YOUR SPECIFIC SOLUTION? WHO DO WE GET FOR THE SECOND GOALIE AND HOW DO WE GET HIM?

And yeah, I'm yelling because your arrogant, aimless personal zings are idiotic and time-wasting.

WHAT'S YOUR SOLUTION? PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

EDIT: I put this on the wrong thread, but it's still valid right here and now. Anybody? Anybody with a creative answer??!

My solution? Which will no doubt be flamed? We don't necessarily need to have a 1a 1b goalie rotation. Some teams do, some don't. We've done it recently but that doesn't mean we should now. It's just that most people on here have a very narrow perspective. If Howard keeps playing like this, keep him in the net. He's our future, and is playing better. I don't get why we're so afraid of starting him in the postseason if this trend continues.

The last few years we've had a goalie rotation, and because of that people think we automatically need another one. Says who? Forget the names on the back, and just think, if one team had a goalie playing like an all star and another one who is aging and playing like s***, would they shove the square peg into the round hole and force it? What the aging star did previously is irrelevant.

In previous seasons we had a rotation because we were never lower than 2nd place and could afford to do something like that. That's what people are forgetting-it's more a luxury than a necessity.

My solution will be boring but it's the most realistic one-keep Ozzie around since he's under contract and a trade wouldn't be worth the trouble. Start Howard as long as he gives us the best chance to win, because currently he does. End result, as certain posters have suggested is a reason why neither goalie gives us a chance, is bulls***, because the goalie playing better will still give us a better chance of winning unless we just don't take to the ice. If we're comfortably in playoff position by game 70 or so, give Ozzie as many starts as he needs to either A) get into a groove or B) show us he isn't worth starting. Because last season, most point to the final stretch run Ozzie had as the reason we started him so we'll likely be looking for more of the same. Rust is an excuse the fanboys are hanging onto. You perform or you don't. Goalies go entire offseasons without playing games and it's not like intense practice time is rare between games should you go looking for it. Some backups to star players come off the bench after sitting out 25 games and play great. Rust is not a legit explanation, it's a cheap excuse.

[Guest zackmorris]

But that would eliminate all the fun of reading each subsequent slappie post as Howard plays lights out and Osgood shows he's washed up. It is an interesting study of fan obsession when arguments are still being made to play Osgood despite all the available evidence - including the Wing's positioning in the standings.

Exactly man, EXACTLY. It really ought to be thrown into a scientific study on the behavior of fans and the ability of the human mind to think reasonably when personal affinities towards certain players factor in. No sane, logical hockey-smart individual would see a single reason to start Ozzie at this point.

[Vladifan 680]

My solution? Which will no doubt be flamed? We don't necessarily need to have a 1a 1b goalie rotation. Some teams do, some don't. We've done it recently but that doesn't mean we should now. It's just that most people on here have a very narrow perspective. If Howard keeps playing like this, keep him in the net. He's our future, and is playing better. I don't get why we're so afraid of starting him in the postseason if this trend continues.

The last few years we've had a goalie rotation, and because of that people think we automatically need another one. Says who? Forget the names on the back, and just think, if one team had a goalie playing like an all star and another one who is aging and playing like s***, would they shove the square peg into the round hole and force it? What the aging star did previously is irrelevant.

In previous seasons we had a rotation because we were never lower than 2nd place and could afford to do something like that. That's what people are forgetting-it's more a luxury than a necessity.

My solution will be boring but it's the most realistic one-keep Ozzie around since he's under contract and a trade wouldn't be worth the trouble. Start Howard as long as he gives us the best chance to win, because currently he does. End result, as certain posters have suggested is a reason why neither goalie gives us a chance, is bulls***, because the goalie playing better will still give us a better chance of winning unless we just don't take to the ice. If we're comfortably in playoff position by game 70 or so, give Ozzie as many starts as he needs to either A) get into a groove or B) show us he isn't worth starting. Because last season, most point to the final stretch run Ozzie had as the reason we started him so we'll likely be looking for more of the same. Rust is an excuse the fanboys are hanging onto. You perform or you don't. Goalies go entire offseasons without playing games and it's not like intense practice time is rare between games should you go looking for it. Some backups to star players come off the bench after sitting out 25 games and play great. Rust is not a legit explanation, it's a cheap excuse.

So what you're saying is we should keep him around? OK, so Ozzie's actually not for total s***/not totally useless/not totally lost his touch/don't have to kick him out on his ass/should not be shot at sunrise.

What the hell do you think most of us have been saying for the last three months/years/decades? Howard's playing great. But for some of you to spew your bulls*** about Ozzie and that he's a lost cause is so frickin' far from reality that it is close to delusional. Under the circumstances it.cannot.be.reality.

The only minor difference ANYwhere in all this cesspool of mind-numbing banter is how much to play him to keep him prepared. And how many pages long is this mother already?

[Guest zackmorris]

Saw this coming a mile away. If anyone is saying Ozzie isn't a lost cause, I'd love to know what they're basing it on, because it can't be play this season. Which is all that matters. They don't give out postdated trophies for good play in previous seasons.

Just because I think he should stick around doesn't mean I think he should play any extended number of games and isn't a lost cause, and in fact I think I explained myself pretty well. The trade would just be more hassle than it's worth. There is a salary cap in place and he has a contract, may as well let him finish it out, rather than losing anything just to get rid of him. Just read my whole reply again, not just the bolded parts.

Edited February 2, 2010 by zackmorris

[ltgator333 3]

Ok I did say I wouldn't argue when I posted in this thread (and someone tried to get me to anyway I'll point out) but I see cooler heads are possibly starting to prevail and dangit, I want to see more mouth foaming immediately!!!

Chris Osgood would've won that shootout.

*cue rabies*

yvw

[Z and D for the C 712]

NHL 10 now rates Howard higher than Osgood.

Discussion over everyone, thanks for coming.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[Pucks 66]

Ok I did say I wouldn't argue when I posted in this thread (and someone tried to get me to anyway I'll point out) but I see cooler heads are possibly starting to prevail and dangit, I want to see more mouth foaming immediately!!!

Chris Osgood would've won that shootout.

*cue rabies*

yvw

LOL Osgood is one of the worst shootout goalies in the league, but even if you disagree I'll let you in on a little secret. The game would have been over in the first period if he was playing in that game. You get 4 out of 5 starts though for stirring the pot though.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Pucks

[Motown4013 350]

LOL Osgood is one of the worst shootout goalies in the league, but even if you disagree I'll let you in on a little secret. The game would have been over in the first period if he was playing in that game. You get 4 out of 5 starts though fir stirring the pot.

[ltgator333 3]

LOL Osgood is one of the worst shootout goalies in the league, but even if you disagree I'll let you in on a little secret. The game would have been over in the first period if he was playing in that game. You get 4 out of 5 starts though for stirring the pot though.

LMFAO

Shouldda went ice fishin'!

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

But that would eliminate all the fun of reading each subsequent slappie post as Howard plays lights out and Osgood shows he's washed up. It is an interesting study of fan obsession when arguments are still being made to play Osgood despite all the available evidence - including the Wing's positioning in the standings.

I'm assuming you thought Osgood was washed up last year, right?

Is it at all possible to discuss the issue without accusing the other side of being biased and unable to think clearly? Just once zack you can try to be civil and stop playing the "holier than thou" card. You aren't magically better than anyone just because some of us still think Osgood has something to offer the team.

Osgood also wasn't playing like s*** before Howard got those 12 magical starts in a row, so there is your revisionist history for you.

[clutchngrab 12]

I'm assuming you thought Osgood was washed up last year, right?

Yes, I did. And I acknowledge he played well above the level that he played during the regular season. I think it was a huge gamble the wings took in him based on his regular season performance. Having said that, I think the real factor in the run, and throughout Ozzies career as a Wing, has been less about his performance - which has ranged from adequate/good to inconsistent - than the performance of the skaters in front of him. The wings played dominant defense and offense (up til the last few games of the finals) in front of him. That's always been the Wings MO - domination on the ice with adequate goal-tending. This team, in its prime has never relied on the goaltender to steal games - including last year's playoff run. Now, when a goaltender is needed to rise to the occasion what happens? The true talent, or lack thereof emerges. I was a an Osgood fan back around 98 when he won a cup, but agreed with Holland when he subsequently shipped him off. He just has never proved to be more than a slightly above average NHL goalie in his prime who happened to play on a great team. (BTW, I think Roy and Fuhr are highly overrated for similar reasons).

I'm speculating, but my guess is the way the team played the first 3 playoff series last year would have resulted in the same outcome if Conklin was in net. Even if I am completely nuts, how long can you play the odds that regular season performance is not indicative of playoff performance? That's not how sports works - at least for coaches and GMs who have to worry about keeping their jobs.

Edited February 2, 2010 by clutchngrab