seeinred 1,488 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Man if you think filppula is bad, look at Franzen. He's being paid almost 4 million and only has 3 points! Holy s*** that made me laugh. That's what I needed before my exam today I don't get this thread. The Val hate is pretty well being quashed every time, but then someone's gotta grasp at straws and say, "but, but, but... he's bad at THIS!" Filppula's good in the regular season. He's a beast in the playoffs. To me, that's *easily* worth 3 million dollars. Apparently to some of you it isn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Holy s*** that made me laugh. That's what I needed before my exam today I don't get this thread. The Val hate is pretty well being quashed every time, but then someone's gotta grasp at straws and say, "but, but, but... he's bad at THIS!" Filppula's good in the regular season. He's a beast in the playoffs. To me, that's *easily* worth 3 million dollars. Apparently to some of you it isn't. I think he's worth every penny - he's INCREDIBLY defensively responsible, he's a hound on the puck when he doesn't have it and has insanely accurate passing... if he was a 40 goal scorer, he'd be a hell of a lot more... that's really the only thing his game is missing and even that is showing signs of improvement.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DatsyukianDeke13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Jesus, you are an absolute moron. Why do I even waste my time? Every time I argue against your "logic" you ignore it and come up with some additional BS. Franzen has played in 4 games. His cap hit is $3.95M. Now, ignoring the fact his salary is not hurting us while he is on IR, with Franzen, you have a guy who scored 27 then 34 goals in the regular season and was a dominating force in the playoffs. Yeah, that extra $950,000 per year is certainly the difference between the two. Filppula has played in 29 games and has 4 goals and 18 points. Woo-hoo. Dominating physical force who set a Wings record for goals in a playoff series, net-front, goal-scoring presence.....vs. hustle and potential. It's a good thing Filppula HASN'T put up 50 points yet because he'd probably be worth 5-6 M, right? My point remains, he's overpaid. Again, I don't hate Filppula, but you don't acknowledge that. Keep bringing up nonsense, it's fun to read. Are you being serious? You do the exact same thing. How you can say Filppula is overpaid is an absolute joke. This is a guy who according to DASTYUK AND ZETTERBERG is a the best set up man on the team. That's what he is. A set up man. Sorry every player can't score 40 goals a year like your boy Hossa. However, if Flip played a full season, he would be good for 20 goals and over 40 assists. Lets not even mention how Babcock trust him to go up against the opposite teams best forwards and to play in pivotal moments in the game. He is one the best defensive forwards on the team, can score upwards of 60 points in a healthy season and is only a positive to this team. To me, that is worth $3 million a season. Oh and did I mention he is not even in his prime yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DatsyukianDeke13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Holy s*** that made me laugh. That's what I needed before my exam today I don't get this thread. The Val hate is pretty well being quashed every time, but then someone's gotta grasp at straws and say, "but, but, but... he's bad at THIS!" Filppula's good in the regular season. He's a beast in the playoffs. To me, that's *easily* worth 3 million dollars. Apparently to some of you it isn't. Agreed 100%, I like Green Man in your avatar btw...I wish it would show what happened 3 seconds after he was going to throw the ball at that guy haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Okay, he had a good playoff. It happens. Did John Druce earn top-6 money after his? Nope, he didn't. But comparatively, Franzen followed it up with 34 goals and another great playoff......not just a promise of potential AFTER getting paid. And yeah, Franzen is a dominating physical force-- not a hitter, but the power that he plays with and his ability to hang on to the puck and score tough goals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Okay, so when filppula keeps up his current scoring pace through the rest of the year and has another great playoffs...what will you say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Nope, he didn't. But comparatively, Franzen followed it up with 34 goals and another great playoff......not just a promise of potential AFTER getting paid. And yeah, Franzen is a dominating physical force-- not a hitter, but the power that he plays with and his ability to hang on to the puck and score tough goals. This. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Okay, so when filppula keeps up his current scoring pace through the rest of the year and has another great playoffs...what will you say? If by a few goals and a high assist total.....maybe he and Keith Primeau are comparable? Nah, Primeau was bigger. In all seriousness, if Filppula puts up a 60-point season and then a solid playoff (say, 0.75 ppg), I'd say he's moderately worth it. But honestly, we are getting the same production (with poorer defense) out of Todd Bertuzzi (whom I think is worth the $1.5 m he's getting paid). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedatsyukian 7 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Filpulla has something like 12 points in his last 16 games and 6 in his last 7 games. With the return of Williams and Kronwall to the second power play unit there should be increased production out of that unit as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paulwoodsfan 52 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 The original premise, I think, was that Filpulla at $3M is too expensive for a third-liner, or for a guy who is on the cusp between the second and third lines. Does anyone have data on average salaries across the league that would help determine if that is accurate? The salary websites all seem to break it down on a per-team basis. I'd like to know the average salary of the 90 highest-paid forwards across the league (all first-liners, in theory), the next 90, and so on. If we had that, we could determine if $3M is too high for a third-liner. Obviously that wouldn't stop the debate raging about whether Fil is a second-liner or a third-liner, skill-wise. I just want to know what percentile he is in, pay-wise, among NHL forwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) The original premise, I think, was that Filpulla at $3M is too expensive for a third-liner, or for a guy who is on the cusp between the second and third lines. Does anyone have data on average salaries across the league that would help determine if that is accurate? The salary websites all seem to break it down on a per-team basis. I'd like to know the average salary of the 90 highest-paid forwards across the league (all first-liners, in theory), the next 90, and so on. If we had that, we could determine if $3M is too high for a third-liner. Obviously that wouldn't stop the debate raging about whether Fil is a second-liner or a third-liner, skill-wise. I just want to know what percentile he is in, pay-wise, among NHL forwards. That would be great. I'll look for that info. EDIT: I found a top-50 salaried players, and it really doesn't help the issue......considering that Vincent Lecavalier is making $10 million.....he's a top-liner, but that's overpaid. I guess it'll still dwell in the realm of opinion. Unrelated, but as a Paul Woods fan, does it bother you that he says "Kurt" Maltby all the time? Edited February 1, 2010 by RedWingAbner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Is a solid 2-way guy who puts up 35 points a year worth $3 mill? Are you inattentive or can you just not do math? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) we are getting the same production out of Todd Bertuzzi That's just not true. Filppula's PPG over the entire season is much higher than Bert's, and has out scored him since filppula's return. And all this while Bert has played with Datsyuk for the majority. Just completely wrong. Here is a list of players who make more than Filppula with similar current production: (sorted highest ppg to lowest) R.J. Umberger: 0.67 P/G @ 3.75/yr Chris Kunitz: 0.67 P/G @ 3.73/yr Ryane Clowe: 0.67 P/G @ 3.63/yr Andy McDonald: 0.67 P/G @ 4.7/yr Brad Boyes: 0.64 P/G @ 4/yr Tuomo Ruutu: 0.64 P/G @ 3.8/yr Saku Koivu: 0.63 P/G @ 3.25/yr Andrei Kostitsyn: 0.63 P/G @ 3.25/yr Valtteri Filppula: 0.62 P/G @ 3/yr Kris Versteeg: 0.62 P/G @ 3.08/yr Jordan Staal: 0.61 P/G @ 4/yr Steve Sullivan: 0.61 P/G @ 3.75/yr Radim Vrbata: 0.59 P/G @ 3/yr John Tavares: 0.59 P/G @ 3.75/yr Brenden Morrow: 0.58 P/G @ 4.1/yr David Krejci: 0.56 P/G @ 3.75/yr Scott Hartnell: 0.56 P/G @ 4.2/yr Tyler Bozak: 0.55 P/G @ 3.73/yr David Legwand: 0.54 P/G @ 4.5/yr Marco Sturm: 0.53 P/G @ 3.5/yr Brian Rolston: 0.53 P/G @ 5.06/yr Mike Modano: 0.52 P/G @ 3.45/yr Milan Michalek: 0.51 P/G @ 4.33/yr Paul Kariya: 0.49 P/G @ 6/yr Michal Handzus: 0.49 P/G @ 4/yr Jochen Hecht: 0.49 P/G @ 3.53/yr Ales Kotalik: 0.49 P/G @ 3/yr Rostislav Olesz: 0.48 P/G @ 3.13/yr Vyacheslav Kozlov: 0.46 P/G @ 3.67/yr Dainius Zubrus: 0.46 P/G @ 3.4/yr Dave Bolland: 0.46 P/G @ 3.38/yr Dustin Byfuglien: 0.45 P/G @ 3/yr David Booth: 0.4 P/G @ 4.25/yr Evander Kane: 0.4 P/G @ 3.1/yr Chris Drury: 0.37 P/G @ 7.05/yr Rod Brind'Amour: 0.25 P/G @ 3.6/yr Jonathan Cheechoo: 0.23 P/G @ 3/yr My god they all need to be traded! Edited February 1, 2010 by Z and D for the C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Are you inattentive or can you just not do math? See above. I was actually giving him some credit on the points side. Full season point totals: Games/Pts 73/17 78/36 80/40 So, on average, he's a 31 point guy. I know he has higher projections this year. How's Dmitri Kvartalnov doing? Ah, potential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 That's just not true. Filppula's PPG over the entire season is much higher than Bert's, and has out scored him since filppula's return. And all this while Bert has played with Datsyuk for the majority. Just completely wrong. Here is a list of players who make more than Filppula with similar current production: (sorted highest ppg to lowest) R.J. Umberger: 0.67 P/G @ 3.75/yr Chris Kunitz: 0.67 P/G @ 3.73/yr Ryane Clowe: 0.67 P/G @ 3.63/yr Andy McDonald: 0.67 P/G @ 4.7/yr Brad Boyes: 0.64 P/G @ 4/yr Tuomo Ruutu: 0.64 P/G @ 3.8/yr Saku Koivu: 0.63 P/G @ 3.25/yr Andrei Kostitsyn: 0.63 P/G @ 3.25/yr Valtteri Filppula: 0.62 P/G @ 3/yr Kris Versteeg: 0.62 P/G @ 3.08/yr Jordan Staal: 0.61 P/G @ 4/yr Steve Sullivan: 0.61 P/G @ 3.75/yr Radim Vrbata: 0.59 P/G @ 3/yr John Tavares: 0.59 P/G @ 3.75/yr Brenden Morrow: 0.58 P/G @ 4.1/yr David Krejci: 0.56 P/G @ 3.75/yr Scott Hartnell: 0.56 P/G @ 4.2/yr Tyler Bozak: 0.55 P/G @ 3.73/yr David Legwand: 0.54 P/G @ 4.5/yr Marco Sturm: 0.53 P/G @ 3.5/yr Brian Rolston: 0.53 P/G @ 5.06/yr Mike Modano: 0.52 P/G @ 3.45/yr Milan Michalek: 0.51 P/G @ 4.33/yr Paul Kariya: 0.49 P/G @ 6/yr Michal Handzus: 0.49 P/G @ 4/yr Jochen Hecht: 0.49 P/G @ 3.53/yr Ales Kotalik: 0.49 P/G @ 3/yr Rostislav Olesz: 0.48 P/G @ 3.13/yr Vyacheslav Kozlov: 0.46 P/G @ 3.67/yr Dainius Zubrus: 0.46 P/G @ 3.4/yr Dave Bolland: 0.46 P/G @ 3.38/yr Dustin Byfuglien: 0.45 P/G @ 3/yr David Booth: 0.4 P/G @ 4.25/yr Evander Kane: 0.4 P/G @ 3.1/yr Chris Drury: 0.37 P/G @ 7.05/yr Rod Brind'Amour: 0.25 P/G @ 3.6/yr Jonathan Cheechoo: 0.23 P/G @ 3/yr My god they all need to be traded! Yeah, I am sure the Rangers WOULD love to trade Drury. Talk about overpaid! So, let me get this straight.....because several players are not worth their contracts, then Val Filppula is suddenly worth his because he's comparable/better than them? Interesting. This list, save a few, is like a "beware of past mistakes" list for GMs. Those who don't fall into that category signed their contracts and put up a few good years (Modano, Kariya) before going south. But yeah, that totally convinces me that Filppula's not overpaid. Honestly, I don't think that either of us is gonna convince the other. That's ok with me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonballgtz 273 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Flip reminds me of Kozlov in a way. Has good two-way ability and seems to kick it up a level come playoff time. The only issue now is actually getting to the playoffs this year. I truly think if didn't get injured he would of had a better season as its taking him some time to get into mid season form. As someone else said in this thread we are missing a sniper. Its funny how Zetty went from being a 35+ goal scorer to more of a play maker. If we can get Hudler back or a player like him, a line with Hudler-Flip-Bert would be a great second line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CenterIce 83 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Filppula is like Datsyuk early in his career. He is more willing to dish the puck than score. They even practice all those Datsyukian moves every practice. Just like Datsyuk, he will have to learn when he needs to drive the net and shoot. It took Datsyuk a few years, it will be the same for Filppula. In the mean time, just put him on a line with Franzen and Bertuzzi, and he should be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DatsyukianDeke13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Yeah, I am sure the Rangers WOULD love to trade Drury. Talk about overpaid! So, let me get this straight.....because several players are not worth their contracts, then Val Filppula is suddenly worth his because he's comparable/better than them? Interesting. This list, save a few, is like a "beware of past mistakes" list for GMs. Those who don't fall into that category signed their contracts and put up a few good years (Modano, Kariya) before going south. But yeah, that totally convinces me that Filppula's not overpaid. Honestly, I don't think that either of us is gonna convince the other. That's ok with me. That is most likely because you throw out all logic when talking about him. You say your not biased, so what are you? Stubborn? With Fil averaging .62 points per game, that means in an 82 game season he will have 50 points. Add Johan Franzen to his line and that number could go up to around 60. If I was a GM I would pay 3 mil for those type of numbers. But then again, I guess if you don't score 40 goals and look good doing it, you have no business in the NHL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommingthepuck96 1 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Filppula is one of the most talented forwards on the wings but with the same finishing ability of brett lebda. I wish he would just solely focus his shooting in practice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finnish Wing 110 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 Yeah, I am sure the Rangers WOULD love to trade Drury. Talk about overpaid! So, let me get this straight.....because several players are not worth their contracts, then Val Filppula is suddenly worth his because he's comparable/better than them? Interesting. This list, save a few, is like a "beware of past mistakes" list for GMs. Those who don't fall into that category signed their contracts and put up a few good years (Modano, Kariya) before going south. But yeah, that totally convinces me that Filppula's not overpaid. Honestly, I don't think that either of us is gonna convince the other. That's ok with me. Exactly. That is how market value works in basically everything in life about buying and selling. Or do you have some exact value for guys putting up X amount of points? That would be like in Soviet Union where every product had its solid value. I think that Franzen argument was pretty good. Is he worth the money? Because Filppula would be get +50 points this season if he had been able to play 82 games. And to say he's only a energy player is wrong. He's a great player defensively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) More numbers: There are 88 players making between 2 million and 4 million per year. From these players, there are 32 players that have a higher P/G than filppula, and 54 with lower P/G. Compare this to 42 players who make as much or more, and 45 players who make less. This isn't taking how great he is defensively into account. Now I'm not saying Filppula is a steal or anything this season, but he is worth his salary, period. It's stupid to argue against this. Edited February 1, 2010 by Z and D for the C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 That is most likely because you throw out all logic when talking about him. You say your not biased, so what are you? Stubborn? With Fil averaging .62 points per game, that means in an 82 game season he will have 50 points. Add Johan Franzen to his line and that number could go up to around 60. If I was a GM I would pay 3 mil for those type of numbers. But then again, I guess if you don't score 40 goals and look good doing it, you have no business in the NHL. What are you, his girl? You are being just as stubborn as I am. Until Filppula (or any player, really) shows that he can produce over a season, projections mean nothing. Unless that means that Ville Leino, based on last year, is bound for greatness over an 82 game season....woops....doesn't work that way. I'd love for Filppula to prove me wrong. I just don't think he will. If he does, I will start a thread called "Filppula proves me wrong." I just don't "project" that will happen, based on the fact he's topped out at 40 points as a career high. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingAbner 13 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 More numbers: There are 88 players making between 2 million and 4 million per year. From these players, there are 32 players that have a higher P/G than filppula, and 54 with lower P/G. Compare this to 42 players who make as much or more, and 45 players who make less. This isn't taking how great he is defensively into account. Now I'm not saying Filppula is a steal or anything this season, but he is worth his salary, period. It's stupid to argue against this. So.......at what point was he a steal/is he going to be one? He is is being paid just like 88 other guys. That doesn't mean they aren't overpaid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Pred 48 337 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 At the end of the day players are worth what the Org is willing to pay them, so is Flip worth the money in the eyes of who matter? Obviously yes, I don't like the long term contracts but in Filppula's case the Wings brass may have got this one right. Val is missing his sidekick Rex and that may be hindering his out put this year, but the whole team is suffering this year. Alot of teams are gunna feel the pinch with all the front end long term loaded contracts I think a 5 year deal should be the max anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finnish Wing 110 Report post Posted February 1, 2010 What are you, his girl? You are being just as stubborn as I am. Until Filppula (or any player, really) shows that he can produce over a season, projections mean nothing. Unless that means that Ville Leino, based on last year, is bound for greatness over an 82 game season....woops....doesn't work that way. I'd love for Filppula to prove me wrong. I just don't think he will. If he does, I will start a thread called "Filppula proves me wrong." I just don't "project" that will happen, based on the fact he's topped out at 40 points as a career high. I don't think Filatov will ever be an NHL calibre player. I mean look at these stats: 2008-09 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 8 4 0 4 0 2009-10 Columbus Blue Jackets* NHL 13 2 0 2 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
