Return of Hudler

[newfy 695]

I never said anything about soft. Just skilled.

And I doubt they make that mistake because the game of hockey is moving right towards puck possession and skill, actually playing the game, not some anti-hockey. Red Wings are not anymore the only team with that kinda game style. Canucks and Sharks have also been trying to move towards that.

The modern style of hockey is about skill and puck possession. It's not like the 80's or 90's anymore. Sure, it can change back in the future.

Bolded part: You hope that don't ya? Why only Europeans? You think Kenny's a racist like you? I think this organization knows the value of skilled players and Red Wings have had the most skilled European players for many years now. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

No its not racist at all its fact. The way europeans are brought up to play the game has no emphasis on hitting and body checking whereas a lot of focus is put on it in North American hockey. Say what you want about being a racist but its fact. I for one think that a guy with the same scoring ability but is tougher will win 10 times out of 10. When you have 2 skilled teams playing eachother the tougher one almost always comes out on top.

So tell me why exactly Asham would be a 4th liner on the wings? He had more points then Patrick Eaves who everyone here loves on the third line and also put up over 100 pims. He put up the same amount of points as Helm who is also loved here. He also put up more points then Draper. So our third line this year, he put up more points then 2 of them and the same amount as another and for some reason he would be a 4th liner here? Let me guess its because he fights so he would be a useless goon on this team.

[Finnish Wing 110]

No its not racist at all its fact. The way europeans are brought up to play the game has no emphasis on hitting and body checking whereas a lot of focus is put on it in North American hockey. Say what you want about being a racist but its fact. I for one think that a guy with the same scoring ability but is tougher will win 10 times out of 10. When you have 2 skilled teams playing eachother the tougher one almost always comes out on top.

So tell me why exactly Asham would be a 4th liner on the wings? He had more points then Patrick Eaves who everyone here loves on the third line and also put up over 100 pims. He put up the same amount of points as Helm who is also loved here. He also put up more points then Draper. So our third line this year, he put up more points then 2 of them and the same amount as another and for some reason he would be a 4th liner here? Let me guess its because he fights so he would be a useless goon on this team.

Here's another example how you have an image of Europeans. Finns are totally different hockey players than Czechs. They're both Europeans. Finnish national team has always been hard-working and pretty tough too, playing with never give up -attitude. We are worried here in Finland that our system doesn't produce enough skilled players. Guys like Leino are not typical Finnish players. He has almost exact opposite strenghts and weaknesses compared to a normal Finnish player, and that's one reason why I like to watch his game.

Who wouldn't think like that? But if you have two tough teams playing each other the skilled one always comes out on top too. The fact is though, the game is going towards a more skilled game. Puck posession is becoming a bigger factor and it isn't like it was in the 80's and 90's. The game is more tactical. One of the major reasons for this was the rule to prevent hooking and holding and stuff like that. I'm glad the game is becoming more offensive and they're removing the anti-hockey qualities from it.

He also had more points than Taylor Pyatt, Sean Bergenheim, Cal Clutterbuck, John Mitchell and Daniel Paille. All those guys have more offensive potential and fit on the 3rd line better than Aaron Asham. The fact is that Helm, Eaves, Miller and Abdelkader all have more potential and better offensive upside than him. Asham isn't likely going to improve anymore. I've said a numerous times already that this team needs an enforcer so it has nothing to do with that either. All those four player just fit better on 3rd line role, which is more offensive than 4th line. Those 100PIMs are one reason why he's more a 4th line player than a 3rd line player. He's primary a tough guy anyway. It's very likely that everyone of those four guys may have more points already next season than him. I'd rather get a younger enforcer who could be a part of this team for more years.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[newfy 695]

Here's another example how you have an image of Europeans. Finns are totally different hockey players than Czechs. They're both Europeans. Finnish national team has always been hard-working and pretty tough too, playing with never give up -attitude. We are worried here in Finland that our system doesn't produce enough skilled players. Guys like Leino are not typical Finnish players. He has almost exact opposite strenghts and weaknesses compared to a normal Finnish player, and that's one reason why I like to watch his game.

Who wouldn't think like that? But if you have two tough teams playing each other the skilled one always comes out on top too. The fact is though, the game is going towards a more skilled game. Puck posession is becoming a bigger factor and it isn't like it was in the 80's and 90's. The game is more tactical. One of the major reasons for this was the rule to prevent hooking and holding and stuff like that. I'm glad the game is becoming more offensive and they're removing the anti-hockey qualities from it.

He also had more points than Taylor Pyatt, Sean Bergenheim, Cal Clutterbuck, John Mitchell and Daniel Paille. All those guys have more offensive potential and fit on the 3rd line better than Aaron Asham. The fact is that Helm, Eaves, Miller and Abdelkader all have more potential and better offensive upside than him. Asham isn't likely going to improve anymore. I've said a numerous times already that this team needs an enforcer so it has nothing to do with that either. All those four player just fit better on 3rd line role, which is more offensive than 4th line. Those 100PIMs are one reason why he's more a 4th line player than a 3rd line player. He's primary a tough guy anyway. It's very likely that everyone of those four guys may have more points already next season than him. I'd rather get a younger enforcer who could be a part of this team for more years.

My image of europeans as a whole is generally correct though. Most european nations put more emphasis on skill and thats why there are very few tough europeans. Okay maybe finland is different but there are still how many european nations that for the most part put emphasis on skill and less on toughness. Its just a different development style.

Do you really think Taylor Pyatt is going to provide more to this team then Asham would? Pyatt is supposed to be a power forward but Asham is much more efficient physically. Sean Bergenheim really? A small guy(from finland of course hes a better fit) who put up the same amount of points as Asham without the toughness but he's still somehow a better fit? Cal clutterbuck is a classless little s*** head that is no better then Steve Ott, Asham is a tougher version of Clutterbuck essentially and John Mitchell just no. I live near TO and watch him play all the time.

Asham plays on the third line in Philly, he's not an enforcer, he can throw bombs with heavyweights but he's a lot like Chris Neil. Asham is tough and has as many points this year as most of the guys you mentioned. Really the only one that might be a better fit is Clutterbuck because he is so hard to play against and Abdelkader with him would drive other teams mad. A 3rd line isn't a scoring line, its a grind line. Detroit was lucky the last couple years they had underpaid scorers that could play third line but they aren't that fortunate anymore.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Do you really think Taylor Pyatt is going to provide more to this team then Asham would? Pyatt is supposed to be a power forward but Asham is much more efficient physically. Sean Bergenheim really? A small guy(from finland of course hes a better fit) who put up the same amount of points as Asham without the toughness but he's still somehow a better fit? Cal clutterbuck is a classless little s*** head that is no better then Steve Ott, Asham is a tougher version of Clutterbuck essentially and John Mitchell just no. I live near TO and watch him play all the time.

All those guys listed have more offensive upside than Asham or are more offensive players than him already. They've got potential to be better players offensively than Asham even though they had less points this year. I'm not gonna put Asham over any one of those guys on the 3rd line because those guys can still improve their game much more and they fit better on a 3rd line role which demands more offense and less toughness than 4th line. Asham has less offense and more toughness so he's a better fit on the 4th line even if he might be a better overall player than some of those guys currently. It's kinda like when Flyers put Leino on the top6 while Laperriere was on the 4th line. Lappy is a better player but it's still a better fit when Lappy is on the defensive role and Leino on the offensive role. Edited April 26, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[Frozen-Man 144]

Xenophobia did rear it's ugly head on LGW a bit durring the Olympics, but thankfully its not a common thing around these parts. I'm sure guys like Newfy and F. Michael and that one guy who was always right about everything and make everyone else look stupid until he got banned would agree - there are (and were) tough European players. Oliwa, Chara, Bobby Nystrom, Ivanans, Nolan, Tollefson - none of those guys are soft gutless wieners afraid to get dirty or bloody when the time is right. Europe has produces some players who have not choosen to be cowards, I salute them:) Sadly, the % of complete players who are willing risk their own face to stand up for themselves or a teammate is lower than it is for Europeans than it is for NA guys. I for one have no contempt whatsoever for the European players who happen to be gutless - in fact, I kind of feel sad for them (just as I would for gutless NA players). I think of how Johan Franzen must feel when his kids watch Youtube clips of him diving to the ice in fear of noted heaveyweight-champion-of-the-league Ryan Getlaf, as the linesman looks on and laughs at Franzens's cowardly display, and I can't help but feel bad for him. I'm sure that rolling around in his money pile takes some of that sting away, but I'm sure a bit still lingers.

Just to make it clear, I wasn't saying that anyone posting was xenophobic but merely commenting on the fact that if there was a dislike for Europeans that cannot by definition be racism because European countries have many different races throughout but it can be xenophobia which deals with foreigners or people of other nationalities rather than their race, but I was not accusing anyone of actually being xenophobic.

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[Finnish Wing 110]

I'd like to add to what micah said.

NA players playing in the NHL are generally tougher than European players playing in the NHL. But I think a big part of it is that the league is in North America. Just like here in FNL, if a team's is going to get a foreign guy, he usually has to have something special to offer or has to be one of the best players in them, because if there's that 4th line spot to fill you rather give it to a Finnish player. There are less skilled, tougher NHL players who usually get the lower roster spots. The usual way for European players to get in the NHL is to provide something different - usually be skilled - or be very good overall like Chara. This is also why more and more European players take the "skill road", because if there are two gritty guys to choose from - one NA and one European - NA coach or NA GM usually chooses the NA guy.

There are tougher European players outside NHL too, but they don't have anything special to offer to make GM's and coaches choose them over that NA guy. It's just easier way to make success in the NHL being more skilled when you're European. There are more tougher players in the NHL than there are skilled players. That's why most players coming to NHL outside NA are usually skilled and it may seem that every player outside NA is like that.

But of course as I said. When young European player knows that the way to NHL is easier when you're skilled the amount of those kinda players increase. All in all, NA players are tougher than European players, but the difference may seem bigger than it is, because most of you have only seen European who play in the NHL.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[newfy 695]

All those guys listed have more offensive upside than Asham or are more offensive players than him already. They've got potential to be better players offensively than Asham even though they had less points this year. I'm not gonna put Asham over any one of those guys on the 3rd line because those guys can still improve their game much more and they fit better on a 3rd line role which demands more offense and less toughness than 4th line. Asham has less offense and more toughness so he's a better fit on the 4th line even if he might be a better overall player than some of those guys currently. It's kinda like when Flyers put Leino on the top6 while Laperriere was on the 4th line. Lappy is a better player but it's still a better fit when Lappy is on the defensive role and Leino on the offensive role.

Yeah but why do you take a gamble on a guy with more upside when you know what you're going to get and its going to be a solid third liner. The offensive upside isn't huge for a third line player. If you take a risk on one of those guys they might score 10 points more then Asham but really whats 10 points? The toughness and the energy through huge hits Asham would provide would balance it out. You take a gamble on someone like that and they could end up invisible like Williams but you get Asham you know youre going to get a hard hitting, punishing player that can play the game. You don't have to sign risky players every off season if you can get the chance to fill a void with an already established player.

The way I look at it you can maybe get an extra 10 points out of your third line if your risk pans out or you can end up with jason williams all over again if you take the types of guys you mentioned. If you sign Asham you get a consistent 20-25 point scorer that is a huge hitter and tough as nails.

Although I wouldn't mind taking a risk on Pyatt

Edited April 26, 2010 by newfy

[Finnish Wing 110]

Yeah but why do you take a gamble on a guy with more upside when you know what you're going to get and its going to be a solid third liner. The offensive upside isn't huge for a third line player. If you take a risk on one of those guys they might score 10 points more then Asham but really whats 10 points? The toughness and the energy through huge hits Asham would provide would balance it out. You take a gamble on someone like that and they could end up invisible like Williams but you get Asham you know youre going to get a hard hitting, punishing player that can play the game. You don't have to sign risky players every off season if you can get the chance to fill a void with an already established player.

The way I look at it you can maybe get an extra 10 points out of your third line if your risk pans out or you can end up with jason williams all over again if you take the types of guys you mentioned. If you sign Asham you get a consistent 20-25 point scorer that is a huge hitter and tough as nails.

Although I wouldn't mind taking a risk on Pyatt

You misunderstood the point obviously. Those players were just examples that there can be players who are better fit for the 3rd line even tough they score less points than some other player who would fit on the 4th line.

It's isn't about taking a gamble as we ALREADY HAVE Eaves, Abdelkader, Miller, Helm. We already have these promising players and I wouldn't put Asham on the 3rd line over anyone of them except maybe Miller. Asham isn't in the team, these guys are. Those guys are all more offensive guys than Asham. It would be a different thing if we were talking about Colby Armstrong etc. here.

Helm, Abdelkader and Eaves at least can all be good 3rd liners in the future. Everyone has already seen what a guy like Asham can do and he won't improve much. It's hardly taking a gamble when you're talking about some 5-10 point difference between 3rd and 4th line. And putting some of those younger guys there is also building for the future. The chances of anyone of those three guys outscoring Asham in the next season are pretty big.

[cjm502 165]

There are just so many people on here I would love to ***** out via internet, but than again I realize how big of idiots they are and how pointless it would be.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

As much as I hate the little bastard for bolting to Russia for hookers, I'd sure as hell take him just so Draper doesnt play and he can work the half wall on the 2nd powerplay. He was only ever really usefull there, and he did do a great job.

[newfy 695]

You misunderstood the point obviously. Those players were just examples that there can be players who are better fit for the 3rd line even tough they score less points than some other player who would fit on the 4th line.

It's isn't about taking a gamble as we ALREADY HAVE Eaves, Abdelkader, Miller, Helm. We already have these promising players and I wouldn't put Asham on the 3rd line over anyone of them except maybe Miller. Asham isn't in the team, these guys are. Those guys are all more offensive guys than Asham. It would be a different thing if we were talking about Colby Armstrong etc. here.

Helm, Abdelkader and Eaves at least can all be good 3rd liners in the future. Everyone has already seen what a guy like Asham can do and he won't improve much. It's hardly taking a gamble when you're talking about some 5-10 point difference between 3rd and 4th line. And putting some of those younger guys there is also building for the future. The chances of anyone of those three guys outscoring Asham in the next season are pretty big.

I see your point of signing guys with offensive upside but there isn't alot of third line type players with offensive upseide that we might be able to get cheap. Asham played with giroux and Van reimsdyk all year, thats a pretty solid line and it shows he can keep up and everything. We were talking about how it was sweet that May could make a break out pass this year. Imagine if we had a tougher guy who could score 25 next year. I still think Asham is a perfect third line guy.

[Finnish Wing 110]

I see your point of signing guys with offensive upside but there isn't alot of third line type players with offensive upseide that we might be able to get cheap. Asham played with giroux and Van reimsdyk all year, thats a pretty solid line and it shows he can keep up and everything. We were talking about how it was sweet that May could make a break out pass this year. Imagine if we had a tougher guy who could score 25 next year. I still think Asham is a perfect third line guy.

That wasn't quite my point either. I wasn't saying we should go after Clutterbuck or Bergenheim etc. They were just examples of players that I'd put on the 3rd line instead of Asham if I ALREADY HAD Asham and one of them in the team.

I think we either need a very good 3rd liner or a tough guy for the 4th line. I wouldn't be happy if some 34 year old +20 point scorer comes and takes the 3rd line spot over promising guys like Helm and Abdelkader.

[newfy 695]

That wasn't quite my point either. I wasn't saying we should go after Clutterbuck or Bergenheim etc. They were just examples of players that I'd put on the 3rd line instead of Asham if I ALREADY HAD Asham and one of them in the team.

I think we either need a very good 3rd liner or a tough guy for the 4th line. I wouldn't be happy if some 34 year old +20 point scorer comes and takes the 3rd line spot over promising guys like Helm and Abdelkader.

I tihnk Detroit has the perfect opportunity to rebuild the grind line right now. Helm, Abdelkader and throw in one tough guy that can play and you have it back. A line like that could be so effective against other teams defenseman.

[Guest mjtm77]

hudler will make nhl 11 online more fun the wings asre realy missing a player like that

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Sweet, welcome back Hudler. Produced very well for his limited ice time. Hope there's a way that the Wings can both keep him and Bertuzzi.

[Frozen-Man 144]

TSN is reporting that Hudler's agent will announce as early as Friday that Huds will be back with the Wings next year.

After a year away from the NHL, it appears that forward Jiri Hudler is planning to return to the Detroit Red Wings next season. Hudler's agent, former NHL defenceman Petr Svoboda, is expected to announce as early as Friday that his client is coming back to North America after one season in the Russian Kontinental Hockey League.