Kovalchuk will not be a Red Wing

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

After Olympics -

22GP, 2G, 7A, 9PTS, +4

Playoffs -

6GP, 0G, 5A, 5PTS, EVEN+/-

yea... horrible...

Well, I agree I'd rather strengthen the D, but I don't like your options with the exception of Mitchell... there's a few other FA's I'd rather see them pursue than those listed...

To be fair, he said he was simply better pre-injury.

[mjlegend 155]

So in our fantasy Volchenkov world, he gets less than Komisarek money ($21 million/ five years)? Right.

He's the plum defenceman (not counting 36-year-old, already-retired-once Niedermayer or a 40-year-old Lidstrom who will only sign with Det). He's the best of a below average free agent D pool in a year where the cap goes up slightly. His old d-partners in Wade Redden and Andrej Mezsaros were overpaid in each of the last two free agent periods.

Everything is pointing towards him being the subject of a bidding war. IMO, he gets no less than $5 million/year cap hit.

If you're the Wings, you have to approach the free agent pool like by making sure you're taking care of the top six forwards and top four defencemen and then look for diamonds in the rough. Throw money at Volchenkov if and only if Lidstrom retires.

weird, he wasn't with new jersey

He also didn't win a damn thing there and took dumb penalties trying to pick fights with Mike Richards. He looked really out of place there.

[Pravius 0]

A team like detroit who always had taken great pride in playing great defense makes that lineup look very wrong.. kronwall as your number 1 D...Nightmare!

I say keep the offense at it is and focus on some D men. Stuart is amazing but his +/- for some reason in the regular season is horrible, Kroner's is good, I like Ericsson, but Listrom only have a couple seasons left I am afraid. This year a big UFA is Sergei Gonchar... I am pretty sure the pens are going to do anything they can to keep him but I like the thought of that.

[Finnish Wing 110]

There's no way he goes to the KHL...

1. The KHL is going to fold within a few years

2. He is too competitive and wants to play in the best league in the world (NHL)

3. 8+ mil a year in the NHL > 12 mil a year in Russia

1. Where do you come up with that? Because it's too threatening?

2. NHL is the best league in the world because there was money at first. Would it be anymore if every good European player would go to KHL?

3. Maybe not.

[stevkrause 1,247]

1. Where do you come up with that? Because it's too threatening?

2. NHL is the best league in the world because there was money at first. Would it be anymore if every good European player would go to KHL?

3. Maybe not.

1. Because their GIANT, Moscow Dynamo just folded and majority of teams in the KHL are in the red BIG time with cost to revenue ratio

2. NHL is the best, because the best players are there. period.

3. Yes.

So in our fantasy Volchenkov world, he gets less than Komisarek money ($21 million/ five years)? Right.

He's the plum defenceman (not counting 36-year-old, already-retired-once Niedermayer or a 40-year-old Lidstrom who will only sign with Det). He's the best of a below average free agent D pool in a year where the cap goes up slightly. His old d-partners in Wade Redden and Andrej Mezsaros were overpaid in each of the last two free agent periods.

Everything is pointing towards him being the subject of a bidding war. IMO, he gets no less than $5 million/year cap hit.

If you're the Wings, you have to approach the free agent pool like by making sure you're taking care of the top six forwards and top four defencemen and then look for diamonds in the rough. Throw money at Volchenkov if and only if Lidstrom retires.

He also didn't win a damn thing there and took dumb penalties trying to pick fights with Mike Richards. He looked really out of place there.

I hate to say it, but right or wrong, defensemen that don't put up huge points, don't get 5 million + in this league

Volchenkov is a very similar player to Brad Stuart, just a little better positionally and only about a year younger... I can see maybe 4 a year, but to pay him 5+ would not be worth it...

[Finnish Wing 110]

NHL is the best, because the best players are there. period.

What made the best players come to NHL in the first place?

$$$

[Guest mindfly]

The life off the ice is much better in north america compared to russia, atleast for non-russians.

Edited April 26, 2010 by mindfly

[stevkrause 1,247]

What made the best players come to NHL in the first place?

That was only a part of it... it was also for a better life for a lot of the Russians, Czech, Slovaks, etc... also, furthermore, one could EASILY argue that even without the Europeans, the NHL would still be the superior league as the Canadian and US hockey pool has become deeper and more talented... look at the perennial winners of the WJC and World Championships over the last few years...

Now, if the SEL was giving money out like it was candy, with the quality of life there - THEN you might have an argument, but they are smart enough to not tank their league by getting in over their heads in debt...

Your argument is flawed on so many levels...

EDIT - Also, see health care... Zednik would not be alive today had he been in the KHL when the skate incident occurred and I am floored for that very reason that he went over there...

Edited April 26, 2010 by stevkrause

[mmamolo 287]

If Listrom retires I would love Volchenkov here but the problem with that is that does nothign to replace the offense from the blueline you just lost. If you feel like Kronwall will elevate his offensive game then that's great and that certainly is possible. I've always liked Dan Hamhuis and he'd be a cheaper signing than Volchenkov but with the return of Hudler saving that cash doesn't really do us that much good because we just don't really have the roster spots to do a ton with it.

Either way, Volchenkov at anything more than $3.75M/yr or so isn't worth it my mind because he doesn't produce any offence from the back end.

The only other way to look at it, in my mind is, if Lidstrom retires, you look for a defenseman who can produce some moderate offence and then you sign Volchenkov or Hamhuis (or whoever) to upgrade over Lilja.

Lidstrom (7.45) + Lilja (1.25) = 8.7 gives yous you plenty to sign a solid puck mover and Volchenkov

[stevkrause 1,247]

If Listrom retires I would love Volchenkov here but the problem with that is that does nothign to replace the offense from the blueline you just lost. If you feel like Kronwall will elevate his offensive game then that's great and that certainly is possible. I've always liked Dan Hamhuis and he'd be a cheaper signing than Volchenkov but with the return of Hudler saving that cash doesn't really do us that much good because we just don't really have the roster spots to do a ton with it.

Either way, Volchenkov at anything more than $3.75M/yr or so isn't worth it my mind because he doesn't produce any offence from the back end.

The only other way to look at it, in my mind is, if Lidstrom retires, you look for a defenseman who can produce some moderate offence and then you sign Volchenkov or Hamhuis (or whoever) to upgrade over Lilja.

Lidstrom (7.45) + Lilja (1.25) = 8.7 gives yous you plenty to sign a solid puck mover and Volchenkov

I think Lilja should be brought back, he's been amazing for us and really helped lift the D, not to mention, we can probably re-sign him for 1 mil a year - that's great for a PK specialist who plays on the 3rd pair... I just don't like Hamuis' game for Detroit's style(not a lot of tangible reasons, just gut feeling) and if Lids does retire, would rather us try and develop Kindl and Ericsson into the offensive defensemen they COULD be, while letting Kronwall and Rafalski carry the load offensively from the back for now and shoring up the actual D of the position...

I agree 100% that anything more than 3.75 for Volchenkov and I wouldn't want it either...

Now if Seidenberg was willing to come here for 4.5... that's a different story...

[BamaWing 37]

I would love to have Koval but I think its the last thing you'll see happen this offseason. I'm very interested to see what we do and what unfolds this summer

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I hate to be the one to say this first.... but its about time this orginization puts winning a Stanley Cup first and loyalty second. Tomas Holmstrom had a great regular season, no doubt. He definitely exceeded my expectations after many were completely done with him after last years playoffs. But in my mind, hes getting exposed again. He helps you absolutely zero in 5on5 situations. For a player to make 2 million in the cap world and not help you at all 5on5 when the game is called much tighter, is absolutely insaine. Id sign Homer for no more than 1 million. If he cant agree to that, put the 2 million towards a solid defenseman that would improve this defense thats running on name recognition only.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I doubt the Wings would make a move for him anyway.

[mmamolo 287]

I think Lilja should be brought back, he's been amazing for us and really helped lift the D, not to mention, we can probably re-sign him for 1 mil a year - that's great for a PK specialist who plays on the 3rd pair... I just don't like Hamuis' game for Detroit's style(not a lot of tangible reasons, just gut feeling) and if Lids does retire, would rather us try and develop Kindl and Ericsson into the offensive defensemen they COULD be, while letting Kronwall and Rafalski carry the load offensively from the back for now and shoring up the actual D of the position...

I agree 100% that anything more than 3.75 for Volchenkov and I wouldn't want it either...

Now if Seidenberg was willing to come here for 4.5... that's a different story...

Oh I absolutely 100% Lilja should be brought back, no question about. I was only saying that in my mind that was the only way other option (in terms of how to spend Lidstrom's money) that made sense since all the forwards rosters spots are all but spoken for.

I like Seidenberg as all, but in my mind that is way too much money for him. I haven't seen him play that much so maybe I'm missing something but I also wouldn't give him more than $3.75M/yr. Even that might be too much actually.

You do make a very good point that both Ericsson and Kindl do have offesive upside. It's been strange to see Babcock not give Ericsson more of an opportunity on the PP (especially over Stuart at times). I definitely think we'll see Kindl on the PP next year at times on the second unit. But let's assume LIdstrom does retire what are our PP D pairings?

Rafalski - Kronwall

Ericsson - Kindl? Both wont be in the lineup everynight

Ericsson/Kindl - Stuart

I don't know right. I mean we'd need a defenseman who can put some points up to replace Lidstrom.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Oh I absolutely 100% Lilja should be brought back, no question about. I was only saying that in my mind that was the only way other option (in terms of how to spend Lidstrom's money) that made sense since all the forwards rosters spots are all but spoken for.

I like Seidenberg as all, but in my mind that is way too much money for him. I haven't seen him play that much so maybe I'm missing something but I also wouldn't give him more than $3.75M/yr. Even that might be too much actually.

You do make a very good point that both Ericsson and Kindl do have offesive upside. It's been strange to see Babcock not give Ericsson more of an opportunity on the PP (especially over Stuart at times). I definitely think we'll see Kindl on the PP next year at times on the second unit. But let's assume LIdstrom does retire what are our PP D pairings?

Rafalski - Kronwall

Ericsson - Kindl? Both wont be in the lineup everynight

Ericsson/Kindl - Stuart

I don't know right. I mean we'd need a defenseman who can put some points up to replace Lidstrom.

oh, no, no, no no... I didn't mean that we shouldn't sign anyone, I meant that we should sign a defensemen with a ton of defensive ability, who isn't necessarily a point producer, but very solid in their own end/positionally and hope E and Kindl can provide some offense from the back end - this, opposed to signing an offensively minded d-man, then go something like:

Kronwall - FA signing

Stuart - Rafalski

Ericsson/Kindl - Lilja

something like that with the mindset that Kronwall would jump up on the play a little more...

As for Seidenberg, I really like his game, he plays physical and provides some points and is only 28... not too great defensively all the time, but he's got a LOT better at that in the last couple years... as long as he's paired with a smart partner, he could really flourish...

Edited April 26, 2010 by stevkrause

[kook_10 1,705]

weird, he wasn't with new jersey

He played less like a puck hog in NJ, but he was just doing his job as a Lemaire rental and that is why he fell short of hopes. He is a natural puckhog as sure as Stevie Y was a natural centerman and captain.

[mmamolo 287]

oh, no, no, no no... I didn't mean that we shouldn't sign anyone, I meant that we should sign a defensemen with a ton of defensive ability, who isn't necessarily a point producer, but very solid in their own end/positionally and hope E and Kindl can provide some offense from the back end - this, opposed to signing an offensively minded d-man, then go something like:

Kronwall - FA signing

Stuart - Rafalski

Ericsson/Kindl - Lilja

something like that with the mindset that Kronwall would jump up on the play a little more...

As for Seidenberg, I really like his game, he plays physical and provides some points and is only 28... not too great defensively all the time, but he's got a LOT better at that in the last couple years... as long as he's paired with a smart partner, he could really flourish...

Ya I see what you mean. I do agree that we should sign someone with the defensive abilities, like Volchenkov (for $3.75), but then we have the extra cash due to Lidstrom retiring. So if that were to work out you want to make use of the extra money by upgrading a roster spot. I guess you could opt to go with something like:

Rafalski/Kronwall - Volchenkov

Rafalski/Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Ericsson/Kindl

then with the extra money saved from Lidstrom's retirement upgrade any of our pending UFA forwards. Although, personally, I like the chemistry and combinations of our perspective group of forwards next season.

Franzen - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Filppula - Zetterberg - Bertuzzi

Hudler - Abdelkader - Cleary

Miller - Helm - Eaves

Draper, Ritola

Or other combinations there within

So suddendly you'd have some spare cash - which also wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Ya I see what you mean. I do agree that we should sign someone with the defensive abilities, like Volchenkov (for $3.75), but then we have the extra cash due to Lidstrom retiring. So if that were to work out you want to make use of the extra money by upgrading a roster spot. I guess you could opt to go with something like:

Rafalski/Kronwall - Volchenkov

Rafalski/Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Ericsson/Kindl

then with the extra money saved from Lidstrom's retirement upgrade any of our pending UFA forwards. Although, personally, I like the chemistry and combinations of our perspective group of forwards next season.

Franzen - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Filppula - Zetterberg - Bertuzzi

Hudler - Abdelkader - Cleary

Miller - Helm - Eaves

Draper, Ritola

Or other combinations there within

So suddendly you'd have some spare cash - which also wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Agreed completely... especially come trade deadline time...

Edited April 26, 2010 by stevkrause

[xtrememachine1 795]

It would be fun to watch Kovalchuk tear it up for us, but we need to stick with what we've been doing and that's building up our defense. If Lidstrom leaves, our defense is significantly weaker. We won't find a replacement for him, but Volchenkov is a pretty good start. A defenseman with his abilities should pull between $4-$5 mil, but I would be surprised if he got up to $5 mil. He's a shot blocker and a shutdown defenseman. He won't contribute on the powerplay or put up a lot of points. Plus, he hasn't played a full season in three years, which is typical for type of player he is.

Edited April 26, 2010 by xtrememachine1

[stevkrause 1,247]

It would be fun to watch Kovalchuk tear it up for us, but we need to stick with what we've been doing and that's building up our defense. If Lidstrom leaves, our defense is significantly weaker. We won't find a replacement for him, but Volchenkov is a pretty good start. A defenseman with his abilities should pull between $4-$5 mil, but I would be surprised if he got up to $5 mil. He's a shot blocker and a shutdown defenseman. He won't contribute on the powerplay or put up a lot of points. Plus, he hasn't played a full season in three years, which is typical for type of player he is.

Which is why he shouldn't get a penny over 3.75 from us... if someone else wants to pay him more... I'd love him for that price, but could not justify paying him 4+ for those very reasons... as I said before, he's a very similar player to Stuart and thus, doesn't deserve more than Stuart...

[Buppy 1,720]

People keep making comments/posts about trying to sign him in the off-season and I just don't see any way this is possible, regardless of how enticing and intriguing it is... even if Nick hangs them up at years end AND the cap goes up to the reported 57.7... there's no way we can afford him, some team will throw some INSANE contract at him (8 mil + a season), which we cannot match and even if he took a discount to come here and play with Dats, our defense would take a MAJOR hit (I'm not ready for Kindl to jump right in and play every day) by not using the new space to address the D -

Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.900m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($2.000m)

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Drew Miller ($0.800m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m) / Darren Helm ($0.950m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.900m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) / Andreas Lilja ($1.000m)

Derek Meech ($0.500m)

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $57.213m; CAP ROOM: $0.087m BONUSES: $0.000m

While it is of course highly unlikely, the same could have been said about Hossa. There's a lot of salary that could be trimmed from that roster.

Do we really need to spend over $6 million on the third line? Do we pay an aging and injury prone role player $2 mil? Do we save a little on Eaves/Miller/Abby/Helm?

Something like this is not that far fetched (lines from capgeek, so ignore that):

FORWARDS

* Ilya Kovalchuk ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m)

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Kris Draper ($1.583m)

* Tomas Holmstrom ($1.250m) / * Darren Helm ($1.000m) / * Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m)

* Drew Miller ($0.800m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.800m) / * Mattias Ritola ($0.600m)

* Cheap grinder ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

* Andreas Lilja ($1.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $57.338m; CAP ROOM: $0.362m BONUSES: $0.000m

[VM1138 1,921]

As far as defense goes after Lidstrom retires, I'd feel comfortable with:

Kronwall-Stuart

FA-Rafalski

Ericsson-Lilja

As far as the forward lines, I don't see how we can sign ANYONE, simply because there isn't a roster spot open. Unless we trade or get rid of some people we've already got a backlog:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Filpulla-Zetterberg

Miller-Helm-Eaves/Cleary

Abdelkader-Draper-Cleary/Eaves/Maltby.

That's assuming Bertuzzi and Williams are gone. We know Williams is a goner. And I think Bertuzzi's future depends on who we keep out of Miller/Eaves/Maltby and if we sign a bigger name forward.

EDIT: Wow, I forgot about Kindl and Ritola, as well. We've got quite a backlog of people who need a spot or to be traded or let go.

Edited April 26, 2010 by VM1138

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

What made the best players come to NHL in the first place?

In the word's of the great Mickey Redmond "Bingo Bango"

The life off the ice is much better in north america compared to russia, atleast for non-russians.

Maybe this is an uneducated view, but I was under the impression that while the average living condition in America is far better than Russia, it is better to be an extremely wealthy person in Russia Opposed to the US as rules basically stop applying. I've heard stories that in lot of Russia's seedier cities, money=power (which is true in America also, but I mean as in, you can pretty much make your own rules/bribe everyone off), which could be enticing for some player's with the standard Scarface mentality, (or just fiending for some high class hooker tail... cough Hudler cough).

Considering a large portion of Europeon players go back to their native land in the off season and don't really get too much down time in the State's due to the season, I for one could see it as being less of a factor than what one would initially believe. Just my 2 cents at least.

Edited April 26, 2010 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

[xtrememachine1 795]

Which is why he shouldn't get a penny over 3.75 from us... if someone else wants to pay him more... I'd love him for that price, but could not justify paying him 4+ for those very reasons... as I said before, he's a very similar player to Stuart and thus, doesn't deserve more than Stuart...

Yeah, I don't see us offering more than $4 mil. With the cap going up and salaries always going up, I figured he would stand to make a little more what Stuart makes. I'm sure someone out there will pay him more though and it will be between $4-$5 mil, maybe even more than that. Look at the Rangers and the ridiculous contracts they throw out. For us, he's a $4 mil player max.

[soultrain 43]

was there any talk we would sign kovy in the first place? stevkrause you said $12 million in russia?...i read $20 million tax free? if the khl folds in a couple years, why would he care as long as he gets his $20 mill for the 1 season. he could come back to the nhl in a year and play for peanuts for whoever had the best cup winning team...i HOPE he goes to russia just to stick it to bettman.