somehow, we need to get a scoring third line center...

[Z and D for the C 712]

Hmmm.

Filppula's points-per-minute at even strength DECLINED from 08-09 to 09-10. You did know that, right? Meanwhile, Hudler's PPM was higher than Filppula's in 08-09.

Filppula's PPM on the PP was about the same from one year to the next, and Hudler's in 08-09 was about 3.5 times what Flip's was.

Going back further, Hudler's PPM at ES was well above Filppula's in 07-08 and 06-07.

The first time Filppula came anywhere near Hudler's ES PPM was when THEY PLAYED TOGETHER ALL SEASON. Other years, Filppula played more than Hudler and scored less.

Filppula had "the run" after Franzen came back. He scored 28 points in 33 games. Nice job. But outside of that, he only had 7 points in 22 games. Not so nice. People say "Filppula will score 70 points, he was on pace for it during his hot streak." Yet whenever hot streaks are mentioned regarding any other player, it's all about how hot streaks don't properly represent a player's play level. Guess what, the second one is right. A hot streak does not represent a player's play level. If he's hot for half a season on a 70-point pace, and cold for the other half on a 26 point pace, how do we know what player we'll get if he's supposed to produce at that level all season? The answer is that we'll get someone who is in between.

Filppula's ES PPM went down .002 Points per minute. Big deal. However his linemates, overall, were worse last year than the year before, actually. To finish out the season he played with Z and Bert yes, but before that he was playing with 3rd/4th liners. Don't take my word for this. 09-10 Linemates 08-09 Linemates

Overall PPM is irrelevant because Hudler had such a huge amount in PP time compared to Filppula. The only way to compare PPM is at even strength. You can't talk about PP PPM because Filppula only had 60 minutes on the PP in 0809 (versus Hudler's 250). You can't gauge anything from that.

This isn't a pissing contest, Eva. Past seasons don't matter to the present. It doesn't matter that in "other years, Filppula played more than Hudler and scored less". Other years being 06-07 and 07-08. 3 and 4 years ago. We (I, anyway) only go back to 08-09 because it's the last comparison we have. Players all improve at grow and different rates.

But outside of that, he only had 7 points in 22 games.

His first 11 games he scored 6 points with scrubs Leino (okay, Leino was a then-scrub) and Williams on the third line. Can't expect much from that. And from the last 9 games he went on a random cold streak. Notice what I'm saying here. The 33 games was not a hot streak. Any streak was the cold streak he had was when he had 1 point in 9 games to finish the season.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Oh man, you clearly beat my point of how much better offensively Hudler is by saying Filppula is better all-around, something I myself basically said six posts ago. I feel shamed and defeated. Your debate skills are unmatched. You should run for political office, as you would most likely win every election with 90+% of the vote.

Political candidate?pssht yeah right.that stuff is overrated.I'll become president of the KHL and give Hudler a 10 year,$500 Million contract since he is the next Gretzky.With his ferocious forechecking and his constant hustle on the backcheck.Not to mention Hudler's 200 point season the last time he clucked in Detroit.oh wait....he's never hit 70 points?really?a player with Hudler's legendary potential has yet to hit 70 points in a season?gimme a ******* break.

[eva unit zero 271]

His first 11 games he scored 6 points with scrubs Leino (okay, Leino was a then-scrub) and Williams on the third line. Can't expect much from that. And from the last 9 games he went on a random cold streak. Notice what I'm saying here. The 33 games was not a hot streak. Any streak was the cold streak he had was when he had 1 point in 9 games to finish the season.

Filppula's overall points-per-game was .500 in 08-09 yet it was .636 in 09-10. He played CONSIDERABLY more time. He played 300 more minutes (about 30%) in 08-09 and scored 5 more points. You're bringing up "Well he played with these scrubs during this time he didn't get points" so you're basically saying Flip can't create his own offense. Hudler did just that, and has carried every line he played on since his rookie year except for the short time he played with Zetterberg. If Filppula requires other players to bring the offense, then how can you say he's the same level of offensive player as Hudler, who is arguably the Wings' best player at doing so after Dats and Z?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Filppula's overall points-per-game was .500 in 08-09 yet it was .636 in 09-10. He played CONSIDERABLY more time. He played 300 more minutes (about 30%) in 08-09 and scored 5 more points. You're bringing up "Well he played with these scrubs during this time he didn't get points" so you're basically saying Flip can't create his own offense. Hudler did just that, and has carried every line he played on since his rookie year except for the short time he played with Zetterberg. If Filppula requires other players to bring the offense, then how can you say he's the same level of offensive player as Hudler, who is arguably the Wings' best player at doing so after Dats and Z?

Oh snap!

Edited June 17, 2010 by Drake_Marcus

[stevkrause 1,247]

oh yeah! another Filppula debate...

[Z and D for the C 712]

Filppula's overall points-per-game was .500 in 08-09 yet it was .636 in 09-10. He played CONSIDERABLY more time. He played 300 more minutes (about 30%) in 08-09 and scored 5 more points. You're bringing up "Well he played with these scrubs during this time he didn't get points" so you're basically saying Flip can't create his own offense. Hudler did just that, and has carried every line he played on since his rookie year except for the short time he played with Zetterberg. If Filppula requires other players to bring the offense, then how can you say he's the same level of offensive player as Hudler, who is arguably the Wings' best player at doing so after Dats and Z?

I like how you pick out only that part of my post to respond to. And I didn't say he "didn't get points". Actually, when he got injured, Val was just getting on a roll. He went pointless in the first 3 games (which is expected, playing with forwards he never did in his career) and then went the next 8 games with 6 points before he got injured. And you missed the other part of my point. Up until when he started playing with Z and Bert, he was still playing with third liners in that 33 game stretch with 28 points.

And there you go again, bring up rookie years like it matters. I concede here, Eva. Hudler developed faster. Yippee. Put 10 points on the scoreboard for you. The fact remains is that in 08-09, you could easily argue (using numbers, not qualitative crap like "but huddles has better hands!!!") that if you gave Filppula Hudler's PP Time, Filppula would be scoring (almost) 60 points and Hudler wouldn't break 40.

oh yeah! another Filppula debate...

Do you love it as much as I do?

[stevkrause 1,247]

Do you love it as much as I do?

It's just gotten flat out ridiculous... with the playoffs he's had and with his play last year, even coming off an injury, anyone who still hates him is probably not a real fan of the GAME of hockey and only has an issue with him because he isn't a physical player and is "soft"... even though he still goes into the corners, never shies away from a hit to make a play and is VERY strong on and off the puck...

oh wait, I forgot, any guy who doesn't throw 10 hits a game and drop the mitts is useless...

I just want to see where all these haters are at the end of next season when he's coming off a career year...

[eva unit zero 271]

I like how you pick out only that part of my post to respond to. And I didn't say he "didn't get points". Actually, when he got injured, Val was just getting on a roll. He went pointless in the first 3 games (which is expected, playing with forwards he never did in his career) and then went the next 8 games with 6 points before he got injured. And you missed the other part of my point. Up until when he started playing with Z and Bert, he was still playing with third liners in that 33 game stretch with 28 points.

And there you go again, bring up rookie years like it matters. I concede here, Eva. Hudler developed faster. Yippee. Put 10 points on the scoreboard for you. The fact remains is that in 08-09, you could easily argue (using numbers, not qualitative crap like "but huddles has better hands!!!") that if you gave Filppula Hudler's PP Time, Filppula would be scoring (almost) 60 points and Hudler wouldn't break 40.

Do you love it as much as I do?

Yes, I concede that had Hudler and Flip switched PP time to match having gotten almost as much time at even strength as Datsyuk or Zetterberg, then would Flip be around 50 points total, good for 7th or 8th on the team. and Hudler would be around 40, between 9th and 11th on the team.

However, had Hudler gotten the even-strength ice time Flip had and vice-versa. Hudler would be around 65 points (4th on the team) and Filppula would be around 30 (13th) so go ahead and make the PP argument. And if you plan on saying "Well he'd score at a higher rate on the PP if he got more time!" don't bother. He scored at the same per-minute rate this year playing basically Hudler's 08-09 PP time per game.

Now, can we get back on topic about how Filppula should be the third line center REGARDLESS of whether he's playing top-six minutes, on the PP, etc?

[SweWings 45]

oh yeah! another Filppula debate...

oh yeah! another Hudler debate... >_>

This summer can't pass by fast enough. It's the same in every thread where Filps/Hudlers names come up and it always devolves into the exact same people taking the exact same sides using the exact same arguments. Fun.

[Z and D for the C 712]

And if you plan on saying "Well he'd score at a higher rate on the PP if he got more time!" don't bother. He scored at the same per-minute rate this year playing basically Hudler's 08-09 PP time per game.[/font]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with their PP linemates. (/s)

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?chkForward=checkbox&selForward=DETFILPPULA%2CVALTTERI&period=ALL&situation=PP&games=2009-2010%3AR%3A99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?selForward=DETHUDLER%2CJIRI&period=ALL&situation=PP&games=2008-2009%3AR%3A99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go

(Did I mention how much I LOVE that website?)

Edited June 17, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with their PP linemates. (/s)

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go

(Did I mention how much I LOVE that website?)

I know I'll never change your mind. Hence the reason I asked if we could get the thread back on topic. Maybe you could tell me your opinion on whether the Wings need a more offensively talented center than Helm or Abdelkader to center the third line. Perhaps you think Hudler should be centering it between Cleary and one of Miller/Eaves/Ritola, and Filppula playing the Wing with Dats or Z?