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The Third Line


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#81 rick zombo

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:30 AM

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.
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#82 Stolberg

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:38 AM

yeah that goal was all on cleary

he shouldn't have used his powers of combination to become both kronwall and howard



#83 Buppy

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 01:41 AM

yeah that goal was all on cleary

he shouldn't have used his powers of combination to become both kronwall and howard

It was a bad turnover by Cleary. Can't blame Kronwall for not being as fast as Selanne, and even though it was 5-hole, you can't really blame Jimmy either. Selanne is a 600+ goal scorer.

That said, Rick is out of his mind. Cleary hasn't been spectacular, but he's been the best player on that line.

#84 dragonballgtz

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 01:58 AM

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.

All three have been their own faults but mixed together they become even more apparent.

#85 mjtm77

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 04:16 AM

We are 5-1-1 anyone els say we leave the lines the way they are?
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#86 Reilly

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 04:25 AM

We are 5-1-1 anyone els say we leave the lines the way they are?


Well you have to because lines 1,2, and 4 are playing well. When Abdelkader comes back, however, I'd be in favor of sitting one of Hudler, Modano, and Cleary for a couple games just to see what happens.

#87 Joseph Franks

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 04:46 AM

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.


Cleary has been working harder than the rest of that line. If you're the only guy out there really trying, you burn yourself out a bit faster. I agree, it was mainly Cleary's fault, but overall he's the only one on the third line that is actually playing like a 3rd liner should play.

The line is a bit of a disappointment so far. But then again, when your top 6 is producing, it buys time for your third line to click or not.

If our top 6 were slumping, we'd be bitching about them. Since they're not, we just move onto the next target. I'm just surprised we haven't blamed Jimmy yet....since typically it goes Blame the Goaltender, then the top line, then the depth lines. Fortunately in Detroit, nobody is dumb enough to blame the coaching lol.

An intangible that goes unnoticed, is that the third line is really running people up and down the ice, and wearing out the depth of other teams. Unfortunately, they're also letting in more goals than they are scoring......

I don't follow the mentality of many fans on this forum. I mean.....for gods sakes we had "Is Zetterberg slowing down" threads 5 games into the season......... While there's a lot of great fans on this forum, and admittedly when I get drunk I'm as much a retard fan as any.....I don't think it's time to give up on line 3 quite yet.

There's three primary factors that the third line needs to work on. 1) Chemistry within the line. I honestly believe Cleary is the most important person on the line right now, because he works the hardest. They need to find a solution where Modano and Hudler can get room to move, instead of having our third line run breakout plays over and over, that typically get shut down in the neutral zone, or end up with a puck dump. Your third line in hockey is a grinder line, with occasional scoring. But in this third line you got Modano, who wants a solid close out year. You got Hudler who wants a solid come-back year, And you got cleary who wants to be ready to break the top six.

All individual goals, and it is showing in their play-styles

2) The matchups. Playing a line of individuals against lines that are specifically put together to be "Shut down" lines (Aka the opponents third lines). This one is on Babcock. Our third line playing against other third lines, is leading to their third lines scoring more than ours is. The dilema here is that you can't move any guys upward, since the top 2 lines are clicking. But you can't move them down either. Perhaps just changing some pairings (Not within the lines, but in which lines they play against) will spark something.

3) Again, overpowered by the top lines, the third line gets less and less opportunity to produce in the game. This, unfortunately, is a spiral downward for a non-productive line.

You go back five years, and you won't find any debates about the third lines production, because it wasn't expected. Now we expect it, and are being highly critical.

I mean we're 5-1-1. We have a 3 game win streak (Longest current in the NHL). We're winning games like last night, that we could have easily lost.

Franzen is scoring. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, are both scoring. Even Bertuzzi is doing well.

What the HELL do you people want?

Edited by Joseph Franks, 24 October 2010 - 04:47 AM.


#88 pucktividi

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 06:45 AM

this is just hilarious.we've been all complaining about depth scoring and now it seems we don't need it with 1,2 and 4th line playing like this.

I'd just call our 3rd line "the Sleepers",cause once when they wake up,this team would be even more scary :hehe:

#89 HOCKEY MATTERS

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 08:20 AM

this is just hilarious.we've been all complaining about depth scoring and now it seems we don't need it with 1,2 and 4th line playing like this.

I'd just call our 3rd line "the Sleepers",cause once when they wake up,this team would be even more scary :hehe:

plus 1 muchacho. And they will wake up.
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#90 titanium2

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:19 PM

I'm starting to wonder if there really is such a thing as a team "firing on all cylinders" so to speak.

In all honesty and realism, what would that even look like for this team?

#91 esteef

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:23 PM

Cleary has been working harder than the rest of that line...

...What the HELL do you people want?

Shorter posts! :P

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#92 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:24 PM

All stupid fantasy league stuff aside, I actually think Cleary is the worst part about that line right now. Hudler and Modano may be a bit slow to adjust or whatever, but Selanne's goal was Cleary's fault. I think he still has injury issues.

I strongly disagree. Other than the bad turnover that led to the Selanne goal, Cleary has been the best thing about that line. Which is why he was out on the ice with Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the game's final minutes.

They could put together a highlight reel of Modano's half-assed puck pursuit. He takes a couple whacks at it, then sort of stands there as he watched the guy skate away from him. And Hudler's just so damn small and not strong on his skates he's not going to be that great battling defensively.

#93 Datsyuk Fan

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 02:52 PM

I'm starting to wonder if there really is such a thing as a team "firing on all cylinders" so to speak.

In all honesty and realism, what would that even look like for this team?


Game 7 against Phoenix?

#94 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 03:00 PM

Game 7 against Phoenix?


Not to mention Game 4 against San Jose, Detroit's opener against Anaheim, and countless other games.

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#95 eva unit zero

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 03:06 PM

1) Chemistry within the line. I honestly believe Cleary is the most important person on the line right now, because he works the hardest. They need to find a solution where Modano and Hudler can get room to move, instead of having our third line run breakout plays over and over, that typically get shut down in the neutral zone, or end up with a puck dump. Your third line in hockey is a grinder line, with occasional scoring. But in this third line you got Modano, who wants a solid close out year. You got Hudler who wants a solid come-back year, And you got cleary who wants to be ready to break the top six.

All individual goals, and it is showing in their play-styles

2) The matchups. Playing a line of individuals against lines that are specifically put together to be "Shut down" lines (Aka the opponents third lines). This one is on Babcock. Our third line playing against other third lines, is leading to their third lines scoring more than ours is. The dilema here is that you can't move any guys upward, since the top 2 lines are clicking. But you can't move them down either. Perhaps just changing some pairings (Not within the lines, but in which lines they play against) will spark something.


Two very good and accurate reasons, and basically explainable. Babcock had the personnel to create three solid scoring lines with defensive ability, and he basically took his top twelve forwards and did this:

Decided on top line.
Decided on second line.
Figured out who was better suited to scoring line (third) or checking line (fourth) and decided on those.

Hudler, Modano, and Cleary basically were 'left over' from Babcock's line creation process for his top two lines. While the top two lines are working well, would they not be working as well with Hudler and Bertuzzi switched? Or Cleary/Bertuzzi? Or Modano/Bertuzzi? Babcock's "plan for each line was to have one big body with net presence, one shooter, and one grinder. Who's the net presence on the third line? Cleary? Hudler? Modano? All are capable of playing in front of the net, but you can't seriously claim any of them to be a Holmstrom, Franzen, Bertuzzi, etc. type and use the description "big body with net presence" on them. The third line is missing a key element of Babcock's "plan" and it's because Babcock was not really concerned about what it looked like.

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#96 Carman

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 04:02 PM


Two very good and accurate reasons, and basically explainable. Babcock had the personnel to create three solid scoring lines with defensive ability, and he basically took his top twelve forwards and did this:

Decided on top line.
Decided on second line.
Figured out who was better suited to scoring line (third) or checking line (fourth) and decided on those.

Hudler, Modano, and Cleary basically were 'left over' from Babcock's line creation process for his top two lines. While the top two lines are working well, would they not be working as well with Hudler and Bertuzzi switched? Or Cleary/Bertuzzi? Or Modano/Bertuzzi? Babcock's "plan for each line was to have one big body with net presence, one shooter, and one grinder. Who's the net presence on the third line? Cleary? Hudler? Modano? All are capable of playing in front of the net, but you can't seriously claim any of them to be a Holmstrom, Franzen, Bertuzzi, etc. type and use the description "big body with net presence" on them. The third line is missing a key element of Babcock's "plan" and it's because Babcock was not really concerned about what it looked like.


Cleary should be able to play a net front role just fine. For example on the Datsyuk game winner yesterday.

The line is just not skating and winning battles. They aren't finding each other in space with passes, they aren't forechecking well, and defensively they've been weak.

Edited by Carman, 24 October 2010 - 04:07 PM.


#97 chrisdetroit

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 05:01 PM

Cleary should be able to play a net front role just fine. For example on the Datsyuk game winner yesterday.

The line is just not skating and winning battles. They aren't finding each other in space with passes, they aren't forechecking well, and defensively they've been weak.



7 games in and it starts....
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#98 Carman

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 05:07 PM

7 games in and it starts....


Sorry I guess I should wait until 8 then.

I'm not saying we need to do anything drastic, but I really wouldn't mind seeing a little mix up on the bottom lines to hopefully get them going Babcock usually mixes the lines up anyways. It should have no effect on our top 2 lines... I don't see what's so horrible about pointing out that a line is under performing right now?

Modano/Cleary/Hudler have not been good, and have actually hurt us. We are going to need all of those players to produce at one point or another this season...

#99 Buppy

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 06:41 PM


Two very good and accurate reasons, and basically explainable. Babcock had the personnel to create three solid scoring lines with defensive ability, and he basically took his top twelve forwards and did this:

Decided on top line.
Decided on second line.
Figured out who was better suited to scoring line (third) or checking line (fourth) and decided on those.

Hudler, Modano, and Cleary basically were 'left over' from Babcock's line creation process for his top two lines. While the top two lines are working well, would they not be working as well with Hudler and Bertuzzi switched? Or Cleary/Bertuzzi? Or Modano/Bertuzzi? Babcock's "plan for each line was to have one big body with net presence, one shooter, and one grinder. Who's the net presence on the third line? Cleary? Hudler? Modano? All are capable of playing in front of the net, but you can't seriously claim any of them to be a Holmstrom, Franzen, Bertuzzi, etc. type and use the description "big body with net presence" on them. The third line is missing a key element of Babcock's "plan" and it's because Babcock was not really concerned about what it looked like.

You're high. Cleary is better in front of the net than either Bert or Mule. Aside from Homer, he's really the only one any good at it. Bert probably could be, but he doesn't seem to want to. Franzen isn't very good at taking punishment, and even if he was he's too valuable away from the net to limit him to that role.

Aside from the s***ty defense, the biggest problem on that line is terrible shot selection. Seems every game either Hudler or Modano passes up a great scoring chance in favor of some fancy pass through heavy traffic. None of them are great with the puck, but with better shot selection, a lot of the turnovers would go away.

#100 Grim

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 08:13 PM

Kenny should move Happy to Atlanta and somehow rescue Dustin Byfuglien. Having said that, the Wings are right up against the cap... not sure if there is sufficient wiggle room for any moves.





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