The Third Line

[xtrememachine1 795]

Let's remember its still October guys. Lots of time to make corrections. Those corrections do not include trading Hudler or moving Modano to the 4th line. Mo still has his speed and a cannon shot. Hudler hasn't been in the NHL for a couple years. Cleary hasn't been great either, but he always gets off to slow starts. Way too early to talk about breaking up the third line.

I want Cleary to play with Hank and Pavel, but I don't think putting Holmstrom with Modano and Hudler is going to benefit that third line at all unfortunately.

Most likely not, but I do like the idea of putting someone else with Z and D. I saw Helm play a couple shifts with them and looked good. I'd be really interested to see what that top line looks like without Homer.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Let's remember its still October guys. Lots of time to make corrections. Those corrections do not include trading Hudler or moving Modano to the 4th line. Mo still has his speed and a cannon shot. Hudler hasn't been in the NHL for a couple years. Cleary hasn't been great either, but he always gets off to slow starts. Way too early to talk about breaking up the third line.

exactly...

LGW - Where even when things are going well... something needs to change.

Here, let me solve the forward lines:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Cleary-Modano-Hudler

Abdelkader/Miller-Helm-Eaves

oh... wait...

[newfy 695]

I'd give them a few mroe games to try and figure it out but if they dont I would bump Abby up to the third line and move Hudler down. In the 08 playoffs Huds played 4th line and had some chemistry with Helm so it might work out.

Having Abdelkader and Cleary would make for a hard forechecking line with 2 guys (Cleary and Mikey) who have proven they can score better then the average 3rd liner and Abby who has 2nd line potential.

Even if they aren't scoring, at least Cleary and Abby can get in on the forecheck, hammer some bodies and create energy, then the line isn't completely useless like it seems to be now

[Carman 387]

exactly...

LGW - Where even when things are going well... something needs to change.

Here, let me solve the forward lines:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Cleary-Modano-Hudler

Abdelkader/Miller-Helm-Eaves

oh... wait...

There is always room for improvement.

[stevkrause 1,247]

There is always room for improvement.

change for change's sake is never good, if this were a major issue, then yes, it would be worth trying to improve... like I said earlier, short of something very minor, like swapping Cleary and Hudler's wings on the line just to shake them up a little, there's no sense in messing with 3 lines that are playing great to fix one that isn't...

[Carman 387]

change for change's sake is never good, if this were a major issue, then yes, it would be worth trying to improve... like I said earlier, short of something very minor, like swapping Cleary and Hudler's wings on the line just to shake them up a little, there's no sense in messing with 3 lines that are playing great to fix one that isn't...

I wouldn't change the first two lines either, but to be honest the last two lines are playing about the same amount per game granted one plays more PP and the other PK.

But to me I just haven't seen any signs of the 3rd line being good enough. They just don't seem to be moving quickly enough to really get the most out of their skills. And the 4th line has plenty of speed on it, I don't think it would be a drastic change to get some more speed spread among the bottom two lines.

When 3 of the 4 players are last among the team are in last for +/- by a significant margin this early in the season it might be time for a little change.

[dobbles 252]

Let's remember its still October guys. Lots of time to make corrections. Those corrections do not include trading Hudler or moving Modano to the 4th line. Mo still has his speed and a cannon shot. Hudler hasn't been in the NHL for a couple years. Cleary hasn't been great either, but he always gets off to slow starts. Way too early to talk about breaking up the third line.

its a message board. we are here to discuss red wings issues. right now the 3rd line is not looking great. in another game or two we will be 10% through the season. when is it long enough to make changes? very few are advocating anything other than a slight mixup in lines. what is wrong with that? i would actually argue mike babcock doesn't think its too early as he already was pulling homer off that top PP unit in favor of cleary. all he was doing was shaking things up to help get guys going. thats pretty much all people in this thread are saying.

also, hudler missed all of 1 season. no need for exaggeration.

[egroen 384]

change for change's sake is never good, if this were a major issue, then yes, it would be worth trying to improve... like I said earlier, short of something very minor, like swapping Cleary and Hudler's wings on the line just to shake them up a little, there's no sense in messing with 3 lines that are playing great to fix one that isn't...

True. And right about the time the third line finds their groove another line will slump and everyone will clamor to make wholesale changes to the other line at that time.

The top two lines are looking great, the 2nd line simply capitalizing on their chances better right now. I have no problem tinkering a bit with the lower lines right now, but definitely do not want anything toyed with at the top, on the off-chance it could spur the 3rd line. Don't mess with a good thing (3 out 4 lines performing well at the same time is about as good as it gets) and definitely too early to be overly concerned.

[SweWings 45]

Given that the other lines are doing fine there isn't any easy way to mix it up. Probably best to leave them be a few more games and see what happens.

your username is the quintessential definition of an moron

Fixed it.

[xtrememachine1 795]

its a message board. we are here to discuss red wings issues. right now the 3rd line is not looking great. in another game or two we will be 10% through the season. when is it long enough to make changes? very few are advocating anything other than a slight mixup in lines. what is wrong with that? i would actually argue mike babcock doesn't think its too early as he already was pulling homer off that top PP unit in favor of cleary. all he was doing was shaking things up to help get guys going. thats pretty much all people in this thread are saying.

also, hudler missed all of 1 season. no need for exaggeration.

So their will be 90% of the regular season left in a couple games. Slight adjustments are fine, like moving Helm to the top line for a couple shifts. However, trading Hudler and moving Modano to the 4th line, will completely change the third line. Those are a little more than "slight moves". Oh right, Hudler didn't play in an NHL game for 1.5 years, not 2. My bad. lol

[syntax 359]

They've been bad. I've complained.

I'm not going to be like half the people on here and try to out guess what Babcock has in mind for the line. I'd say if they don't get going by Game 15, it's a failed experiment and should be discontinued.

[dragonballgtz 273]

I would like to see what Eaves could do on the 3rd line. He seems to be getting his chances of late and with better offensive line mates might start to put it in the back of the net more often.

Personally I do not agree with the wait approach to this line. Keeping this line the way it is currently I can see it costing us a game. That line usually has one quick rush then it's a dash back to our end.

[esteef 2,679]

So 4 games was too early to talk about the 3rd line not working but 6 is fine? Got it.

esteef

[dobbles 252]

So their will be 90% of the regular season left in a couple games. Slight adjustments are fine, like moving Helm to the top line for a couple shifts. However, trading Hudler and moving Modano to the 4th line, will completely change the third line. Those are a little more than "slight moves". Oh right, Hudler didn't play in an NHL game for 1.5 years, not 2. My bad. lol

switching modano from the 3rd line to the 4th line is minor. thats nothing major. moving around bottom 6 forwards is pretty tame. and i would actually appreciate if you could quote the posts asking to trade hudler. i honestly did not see that when i read the thread. you keep bringing it up as if loads of people are suggesting it.

10% of the season is significant. having that depth scoring would help. should we wait another 10 games before making a move? then all of a sudden its 20% of the season. it doesn't matter what month it is. every game is worth 2 points. if a line isn't working, its in the teams best interest to try and get it going. and if swapping modano and helm for a few games is needed, so be it. you seem to be really over dramatic about the impact a move like that would have.

also, you got called out exaggerating. give it up. he missed 1 season. players miss that long with acl injuries all the time. he was still playing hockey at a fairly high level. pretending its 1.5 years is a lame attempt at back peddling. its like saying the whole team missed .25 years of hockey because of summer.

[Guest best poster in LGW history]

Fixed it.

"an moron"?

:rotflmao:

[hooon 1,089]

There aren't a lot of options, but I think they should mix up the bottom two lines. I'd rather not mess with the top two because they're going well, and the 4th line is good but Miller, Eaves and Helm are good pretty much any line they play on.

How about...Eaves-Modano-Cleary? Hudler-Helm-Miller? Speed, net presence and shooting for the 3rd. I know Hudler's feelings will be hurt being bumped down but there's nowhere else for him to go. Maybe Helm's can feed Hudler for some goals.

Are you serious? Hudler on the 4th line? The problem is that none of the 3rd line players are 4th line players (in fact, on most teams those three guys are top 6 players). Absolutely NO way should any of them be put on the 4th.

As Babs has said, every line has one moveable part, Homer, Bert, Hudler (or was it Cleary?). They don't have to completely shake up the lines, just move these guys a bit. I wouldn't mind them simply switching Bert and Hudler, letting Bert bring his point totals down a line.

[xtrememachine1 795]

i would actually appreciate if you could quote the posts asking to trade hudler. i honestly did not see that when i read the thread. you keep bringing it up as if loads of people are suggesting it.

Ask and you shall receive.

this line blows. i wish we could trade hudler for someone with speed or size.

Even though it would probably offend modano or something like that by putting him on the 4th line with few limited minutes and let abdelkader center the third line might be a good option for now

I simply used these as examples of how much people are overreacting to the lack of production from the third line.

10% of the season is significant. having that depth scoring would help. should we wait another 10 games before making a move?

The reason Modano was brought into Detroit was to center the third line and give it some scoring punch. You can't give up on it after 6 games. 10% is of the season is not that significant. The first 10% is less significant. The NYI and Leafs are two of the best teams in the conference right now. What if the Wings gave up on Howard after his first 6 games last year? Patience is a virtue my friend. Its not like the Wings are 0-6 here.

also, you got called out exaggerating. give it up. he missed 1 season. players miss that long with acl injuries all the time. he was still playing hockey at a fairly high level. pretending its 1.5 years is a lame attempt at back peddling. its like saying the whole team missed .25 years of hockey because of summer.

Call it whatever you want, that's a long time to be out of the NHL. Its going to take him a little bit of time to get readjusted to the speed of the NHL, longer than most players because he was out longer than most players, even ones with ACL injuries. Btw, the KHL is not a fairly high level, ask Team Russia.

[dragonballgtz 273]

The reason Modano was brought into Detroit was to center the third line and give it some scoring punch. You can't give up on it after 6 games. 10% is of the season is not that significant. The first 10% is less significant. The NYI and Leafs are two of the best teams in the conference right now. What if the Wings gave up on Howard after his first 6 games last year? Patience is a virtue my friend. Its not like the Wings are 0-6 here.

Any part of the season start, middle, or end is significant.

[xtrememachine1 795]

Any part of the season start, middle, or end is significant.

10% of a season isn't that significant. In 2008, we lost 10 out of 11 games which included a 6 game losing streak. If I remember correctly, that season ended pretty good for us.

[dobbles 252]

Ask and you shall receive.

I simply used these as examples of how much people are overreacting to the lack of production from the third line.

The reason Modano was brought into Detroit was to center the third line and give it some scoring punch. You can't give up on it after 6 games. 10% is of the season is not that significant. The first 10% is less significant. The NYI and Leafs are two of the best teams in the conference right now. What if the Wings gave up on Howard after his first 6 games last year? Patience is a virtue my friend. Its not like the Wings are 0-6 here.

Call it whatever you want, that's a long time to be out of the NHL. Its going to take him a little bit of time to get readjusted to the speed of the NHL, longer than most players because he was out longer than most players, even ones with ACL injuries. Btw, the KHL is not a fairly high level, ask Team Russia.

thanks for finding that post about the trade. i had overlooked it as i never read that guys posts as they are always pretty out there. like i said though, 99.99999% of people are asking for minor tweaks. as i stated, switching around bottom 6 forwards for a few games is NOT a big deal. thats not an overreaction by any means. i honestly don't care what modano was brought in to do, because right now he isn't doing it. and one of the best ways to get players to improve is to switch up the lines a bit. as i stated before, babcock has already done this with cleary going in for homer on the PP. the top unit wasn't clicking, and so there was a bit of change. i am not advocating giving up on anyone or anything. i don't see why you have to resort to hyperbole and such. the wings record is great and i am supremely happy about that. however, the 3rd line is pretty bad right now; so i, as a fan, am wondering aloud to other fans about what hypothetical changes could be made to get that line going.

and yes the khl is a fairly high level. i would put it up there with any league outside the nhl as a contender for 2nd level status. i am not really sure what you mean by that team russia comment either; team russia is mostly nhl'ers.

also, as far as 10% not mattering, wonder where last season would have been without the last 10% of the season. its not about arbitrarily taking out 8 game segments and saying that streaks don't matter. its countering the people that think its too early to make changes. lots of people seem to think games in october don't mean anything. every game is 2 points. you can't afford to throw away any of them. and having a 3rd line that is a liability can lead to that.

Edited October 22, 2010 by dobbles

[dragonballgtz 273]

10% of a season isn't that significant. In 2008, we lost 10 out of 11 games which included a 6 game losing streak. If I remember correctly, that season ended pretty good for us.

That 10% for any team can mean the difference of not making the playoffs or making the playoffs by a point or more. A s***ty start to a season can be difficult to overcome for anyone. Eight games is 16 points, so lets say the 07 Avs won at least 2 of those eight games which would put them at 99 points for that season which would mean playoffs. Hell just one would of done it.

To say one game or even 10% of the season is not significant is absurd. Especially in the start every point earned makes it that much more important coming down the stretch. Giving coaches the ability to rest some guys down the stretch because you don't have to play catch up makes it more evident that every game counts. Every once in awhile you will hear Murphy talk about how Bowman wanted to start every season strong because he knew the importance of starting the season off strong.

Edited October 22, 2010 by dragonballgtz

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

They're playing like I predicted they would.

I would move Homer from the top line, but obviously, playing him and Hudler together wouldn't work defensively. Someone on that 3rd line should be demoted to the 4th line.

[CanadaBoy 151]

I'd love to see:

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Abdelkator-Modano-Eaves/Miller (Two Kids and a Goat?)

[hooon 1,089]

I'd love to see:

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Abdelkator-Modano-Eaves/Miller (Two Kids and a Goat?)

I'm not sure what difference that would really make. Helm is faster than Mo, but Mo isn't exactly slow himself. Mo has better hands, set-up ability, shot, and finish.

I'd rather see them put Hudler up on the 2nd line to get him going, and bring Bert down to the 3rd to get that line going as he creates a lot of space out there.

[taxijim 11]

I'd love to see:

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Abdelkator-Modano-Eaves/Miller (Two Kids and a Goat?)

ME too....Huds & Helm had sort of a chemistry in the 08 finals....Helm & Cleary play the same style of game....they could constantly dig it out of the corners & behind the net to Hudler who is supposed to be one of our snipers