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Majsheppard

Bettman threatens Edmonton.

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<...>It makes me mad that he has to say something like this. Don't get me wrong, if they want a new arena they should get one. However why does the NHL think it has the right to demand local governments to pay for their new toys???

<...>

He's a lawyer. That means chances he is a liberal are very high.

Then, if he's a liberal, then it is in his blood, government must help him, otherwise <...insert any threatening...>

get rid of this *******, the sooner, the better.

There is plenty to criticize Bettman on. This instance I feel is a major stretch. He's actually trying to help the Oilers, he's saying the same things he's said about the Islanders situation, he's not being any "harder" on Canadian teams, and to think that as a conspiracy is just, I don't know, not right? His job is to represent the owners, so of course he's going to battle for the "poor", if he wasn't good at his job he wouldn't be in his position for almost 20 years.

One word. Capitalism. Many seem to forget this simple word.

Edited by ami

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Guest CaliWingsNut   
Guest CaliWingsNut

TSN.

So the owner's want to pay less than 1/4 of it, and make the public / gov.t pay the rest? Lame.

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So the owner's want to pay less than 1/4 of it, and make the public / gov.t pay the rest? Lame.

Makes sense. Vancouver just got a bunch of government-paid upgrades to their arena. I realize those had to do with Olympic games, but at the same time the arena is privately owned. It's not the same situation as the Saddledome, which is publicly owned.

An even better example? The government is refusing to pay a dime to provide a new arena which may determine the fate of the Oilers (whether or not they are able stay in town) yet both the Canadian government and provincial government of Manitoba contributed funds to build the MTS Centre.

So that is three teams in Western Canada with arenas built in the past 30 years. All have had government help in either building or renovating the arena. Edmonton has the oldest arena in the league, and the government refuses to help.

Sounds like there's not too much care about the fate of small-market Canadian teams until after they leave town.

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Guest CaliWingsNut   
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Makes sense. Vancouver just got a bunch of government-paid upgrades to their arena. I realize those had to do with Olympic games, but at the same time the arena is privately owned. It's not the same situation as the Saddledome, which is publicly owned.

An even better example? The government is refusing to pay a dime to provide a new arena which may determine the fate of the Oilers (whether or not they are able stay in town) yet both the Canadian government and provincial government of Manitoba contributed funds to build the MTS Centre.

So that is three teams in Western Canada with arenas built in the past 30 years. All have had government help in either building or renovating the arena. Edmonton has the oldest arena in the league, and the government refuses to help.

Sounds like there's not too much care about the fate of small-market Canadian teams until after they leave town.

I'm not against the government helping out. It is a public morale and pride thing for everyone in the area. However, less than a quarter of the costs? That's just attempting to take advantage of the public.

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I'm not against the government helping out. It is a public morale and pride thing for everyone in the area. However, less than a quarter of the costs? That's just attempting to take advantage of the public.

I wasn't speaking to how much the government should pay; but the government has paid in the past and likely would be receiving back well beyond what they spend in taxes. Losing the Oilers would cost Edmonton, and Alberta, more in tax revenue long-term than paying for 100% of the project.

It's like the reason that some tax incentives for businesses are good things; by creating more business, they actually increase the total tax revenue from that business.

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There needs to be a balance here:

If there is to be a public/private relationship, then there has to be a 3rd party in charge of the arena. There also has to be a deal for anything as far as vendor %, parking rights, as well as what the arena management means to the greater good of the whole of Edmonton. Will it be used for more than just the oilers? absolutely. But let's not get carried away here, we have to determine where revenues go, and who can get paid back when.

Keep in mind in the past there are several instances of a public funding an arena that ends up both paying for itself in gate revenue and new area sales/property/rent taxes, plus makes the area more desirable as having an entertainment venue that one doesn't have to travel to see. For instance, Tulsa Oklahoma in 2008 opened a brand new arena, the BOK Center after having it on the ballot as a publicly funded set of initiatives to beautify, clean up, and overhaul Tulsa and the downtown area. Thus far, it has generated a s*** ton of revenue, the area around it is starting to get renovated (see urban renewal/rebuilding) and businesses are coming in. Most importantly, Hotels are getting more bookings through what used to be slow season, resulting in better generated tax revenue for the city and county. It seats 17,096 for hockey on a 200x85 sheet, so perhaps if they don't work out in EDM.....Come on down to America's OIL COUNTRY.

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Cool images, but I agree with the Mayor. Its easy to throw out these beautifully rendered, detail-less forms with pretty lights and get everyone excited for USS Enterprise Arena, its another thing to add realistic construction detail, building codes, functional constraints, and budget.

It's worth keeping an eye on, but right now its just a VERY pretty example of sculpture at the building scale; not functional architecture. If it does get done it will look NOTHING like that, in form or texture. Its the building version of a concept car.

/architectsopinion

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That does look pretty cool. Not sure it can be done, but still.

Oh it can be done. The question with 99.9% of all construction is whether it can be done correctly while staying on time and on budget.

It's worth keeping an eye on, but right now its just a VERY pretty example of sculpture at the building scale; not functional architecture. If it does get done it will look NOTHING like that, in form or texture. Its the building version of a concept car.

/architectsopinion

Maybe they'll just keep throwing time and money at it until it's doable instead of starting from a feasible design at the outset. :lol:

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shovel's supposed to turn this year, isn't it?

After all, the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK looks a lot like its drawings with a s*** ton of glass wrapping the building.

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Any of these look familiar? :P

sintesi-concept-car.jpg

audio0.jpg

futurism-concept-car-looks-like-a-reverse-tricycle-future-car-02.jpg

Future-Concept-Car.jpg

I really would have hoped the firm on the job could have come up with something a bit more substantial and "fleshed out", rather than some preliminary ideas sculpted by a tech-savvy intern with some cool lighting effects. That was supposed to be proof that a new arena was on its way? Don't get me wrong, its cool and all, but holds no greater weight beyond the images themselves.

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shovel's supposed to turn this year, isn't it?

After all, the BOK Center in Tulsa, OK looks a lot like its drawings with a s*** ton of glass wrapping the building.

Article says construction beginning in 2015, and even that is subject to change.

Comparing a developed idea like BOK to shiny curves with lighting effects is apples to oranges. Like I said, worth keeping an eye on, and the shapes themselves are not impossible, but time and budget will dictate that, as will code and the actual function of an arena. But as far as a building, I don't see it. I see jingling keys :P

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Article says construction beginning in 2015, and even that is subject to change.

Comparing a developed idea like BOK to shiny curves with lighting effects is apples to oranges. Like I said, worth keeping an eye on, and the shapes themselves are not impossible, but time and budget will dictate that, as will code and the actual function of an arena. But as far as a building, I don't see it. I see jingling keys :P

This design is a stretch, but look at this tulse_phototour38.jpg?Log=1

The way construction is anymore, that very well might be what EDM gets. I think the extra walkway is a bit of a stretch, but EDM can have a nice building that seats 18,500 for $450 million.

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Apple.

tulse_phototour38.jpg?Log=1

Orange.

2266_37278_web_8column.jpg

Nothing about BOK raises an eyebrow, curved curtain wall. Feasibility aside, the Edmonton arena proposal is a LONG way from being a developed building design. Fun PR stuff, but hardly proof of a viable project.

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