Win or Lose: This Team *Needs* Nothing

[Guest blueadams]

I can't recall how many times I've said this team needs absolutely nothing in order to beat any other team in this league. The skill is there, it has been for the past how many years. When they play to their ability (as they did last night), there's no team in the league that can skate with them. When they forecheck in all three zones (as they did last night), lopsided shot-counts present themselves and its only a matter of time (typically) before the other team cracks.

This isn't an "I told you so" thread (though it may seem like one), rather its a thread to show how complete this team really is and when they truly want a game, they can dominate it from beginning to end. Win or Lose, thanks Red Wings for an incredible series and for showing the hockey world what kind of metal your made of.

I welcome anyone's thoughts in regards to what this team may or may not need this coming offseason. Keep in mind, I say this team "needs" nothing, which is different from saying they shouldn't bring anyone else in.

I disagree, strongly.

Like Babs said, San Jose easily could've won any of the three games we won (and vice versa). Luck has had a lot to do with it for both teams. Too close for my liking.

Regardless of what happens tomorrow night, or after, I still think we need to #1) shore up our defense, #2) add an elite scorer, and #3) add a menace.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I disagree, strongly.

Like Babs said, San Jose easily could've won any of the three games we won (and vice versa). Luck has had a lot to do with it for both teams. Too close for my liking.

Regardless of what happens tomorrow night, or after, I still think we need to #1) shore up our defense, #2) add an elite scorer, and #3) add a menace.

He also said we could've won any the first three as well. The point is, when the Wings play like they did last night, they're as good as any team in the league *right now*.

Did you miss that point of the OP?

[eva unit zero 271]

Jesus christ would you stop this s*** already? Saying he split time on the third/fourth lines is just a blatant lie. He spent most of his time on the third line, and probably spent more time with Zetterberg than Draper and Maltby combined. Not to mention he got a ton of PP time, which accounted for just under half of his total points.

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go

The Wings' fourth line was Kopecky/Draper/Maltby, and he spent plenty of time with both Kopecky and Draper. Not as much with Maltby.

And what about Helm, who played a ton with Hudler while he was up that season? Almost as much time with Hudler as Z spent.

As for PP TOI... Hudler was third in PP points among forwards on the team. He was third in PP TOI. He scored at a better pace on the PP, per minute, than any other forward but Datsyuk. THAT is why he got all of that time. Tell me, why does Modano get time on the PP now? Because he doesn't do s***. At least Hudler scores. At least Williams and Samuelsson could score from the point.

[Broken 16 381]

He also said we could've won any the first three as well. The point is, when the Wings play like they did last night, they're as good as any team in the league *right now*.

Did you miss that point of the OP?

The only thing I heard anyone really saying the team needed recently was heart and determination. And they will continue to need it until the very end. I know you said this wasn't an 'I told you so' post, but I'm still not sure to what you are referring. I honestly don't remember very many (if any) outside the normal 'glass is half empty' crowd that was calling for any changes based on skill and talent.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Broken 16

[Guest Heaten]

This team *needs* a healthy Franzen and a scratched Hudler.

[eva unit zero 271]

Hoping something wholly unrealistic is not only a waste of time, its pointless. Should I hope Dats re-ups with the Wings when his contract is done for $1 million per? That's as unrealistic as hoping Lids will re-sign for $3 mil.

Eva, do you really want me to blast you with the same argument so many other members already have regarding small sample sizes. Besides, that was nowhere near the only chance Hudler ever had to shine on the top two lines. He's been there in his past and while sometimes he took advantage of it (while being aided by playing alongside great players) he's also pissed it away with his poor-backchecking and soft play on the puck. Those two things are recipes for disaster when playing on a line with guys like Pav and Z simply because the opposition typically tries to match power for power. When Huds refuses to back-check and allows turnovers due to his soft play, it doesn't take much for the talent on the opposition to put the puck in the net. That's why he's lost Bab's favor, not because he can't play offensively.

Lastly, since you love stats, how about the fact that while he scored those first 12 points, he was only a +1. +7 over the next 14 points is atleast better, but not something to be proud of.

Hudler has never been given a shot on the top two lines over any realistic length of time. He's played there a couple times during injuries when Babs had no choice but to put him there, but the Huds/Dats/Cleary line was the first time Babs actually gave Hudler more than 2 games to play on one of the top two lines while the team was healthy. And he still broke it up despite excellent performance from all three members of the line, in a failed attempt to "get Franzen going" instead of sitting Franzen for a game or two like he would with some other players who weren't performing and weren't working hard at either end.

As for your stats... plus-minus is one of the most useless statistics in all of sports. And beyond that, your original argument was that Hudler never "engaged" since he came back. Scoring at a 70 point pace over 17 games while on the third line is pretty engaged, regardless of what your plus-minus is.

So as for the topic of this thread, maybe this team does need something. Fans who don't blindly hate on their own players for not being the ideal guy they would want. I remember everyone going nuts when Abdelkader was picked, wanting Latendresse instead, and telling everyone that Holland had made the right choice. Latendresse had one very good partial season in Minnesota, and some decent seasons in Montreal, but he's still pretty worthless defensively. Abby isn't great offensively and needs to get those bad penalties under control, but he's a good all around player.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Hudler has never been given a shot on the top two lines over any realistic length of time. He's played there a couple times during injuries when Babs had no choice but to put him there, but the Huds/Dats/Cleary line was the first time Babs actually gave Hudler more than 2 games to play on one of the top two lines while the team was healthy. And he still broke it up despite excellent performance from all three members of the line, in a failed attempt to "get Franzen going" instead of sitting Franzen for a game or two like he would with some other players who weren't performing and weren't working hard at either end.

As for your stats... plus-minus is one of the most useless statistics in all of sports. And beyond that, your original argument was that Hudler never "engaged" since he came back. Scoring at a 70 point pace over 17 games while on the third line is pretty engaged, regardless of what your plus-minus is.

So as for the topic of this thread, maybe this team does need something. Fans who don't blindly hate on their own players for not being the ideal guy they would want. I remember everyone going nuts when Abdelkader was picked, wanting Latendresse instead, and telling everyone that Holland had made the right choice. Latendresse had one very good partial season in Minnesota, and some decent seasons in Montreal, but he's still pretty worthless defensively. Abby isn't great offensively and needs to get those bad penalties under control, but he's a good all around player.

:rotflmao:

Me? Blindly hating on players for not being the ideal guy they want? Who the hell are you kidding eva?! You've been here long enough to know the type of poster I am and clearly know I'm not one of those people. I'm the one who stood up to the ignorant bandwagoners stating Lilja was awful when he actually turned his game around. I've always had clear expectations of what players can and can't do, especially when you factor in their alleged role on the team.

You state I'm hating because I point out facts you don't like. You talk about his points and then disregard his +/- as being unimportant. Given how stat-happy you are, you'd be the first person on LGW to use that argument if Hudler had a better number.

The fact is, Hudler is lazy on defense, slow and soft on the puck. He's an incredible talent when it comes to vision and distributing the puck, but that's not what Babs needs on the top lines if Hudler can't hang on to the puck or backcheck. Simple as that.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I approve this thread. Eva's man love for Hudler is mesmerizing. Filppula also had a stretch of people over a PPG for a dozen or so games...while playing with Datsyuk.

If you play with Datsyuk, your numbers increase. I'd be fine with moving Hudler as offense wasn't our problem and isn't our problem.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Hudler has never been given a shot on the top two lines over any realistic length of time. He's played there a couple times during injuries when Babs had no choice but to put him there, but the Huds/Dats/Cleary line was the first time Babs actually gave Hudler more than 2 games to play on one of the top two lines while the team was healthy. And he still broke it up despite excellent performance from all three members of the line, in a failed attempt to "get Franzen going" instead of sitting Franzen for a game or two like he would with some other players who weren't performing and weren't working hard at either end.

As for your stats... plus-minus is one of the most useless statistics in all of sports. And beyond that, your original argument was that Hudler never "engaged" since he came back. Scoring at a 70 point pace over 17 games while on the third line is pretty engaged, regardless of what your plus-minus is.

So as for the topic of this thread, maybe this team does need something. Fans who don't blindly hate on their own players for not being the ideal guy they would want. I remember everyone going nuts when Abdelkader was picked, wanting Latendresse instead, and telling everyone that Holland had made the right choice. Latendresse had one very good partial season in Minnesota, and some decent seasons in Montreal, but he's still pretty worthless defensively. Abby isn't great offensively and needs to get those bad penalties under control, but he's a good all around player.

You should be worrying more about Hudler cracking the lineup than Hudler being on the first line.

[dobbles 252]

i agree with the OP. while there is always room for improvement, the wings have shown they are capable of playing top level hockey. regardless of what happens tomorrow, the wings are already in the last 5 teams standing. and while we all expect a cup every year, i find it hard to believe that a team that was 6th in regular season points and has won more playoff games than all but 4 teams (so far) needs to be blown up.

unfortunately though, the thread has degenerated into the same old hudler debate with eva against everyone.