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#681 hockey23

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:55 PM

Kindl was -8 in his first 8 NHL games. In his next 40 he was +2. I'm confident Kindl is ready for the NHL.

He was also -8 in his last 8 games. I agree he's ready, but I don't think +/- proves anything.

#682 Kerjuxaxaxa

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:01 PM

He was also -8 in his last 8 games. I agree he's ready, but I don't think +/- proves anything.



Agree, for instance, Ericsson had +8, second among defenseman after Rafalski, but still a passenger.



#683 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:04 PM

Hudler scored 37 points this past season and people considered it a terrible season for him. Three points would have made the difference?



Of all of the players in the league, Zherdev is one of the most widely known for having attitude problems stemming from an over-inflated sense of self worth. He's also perfectly willing to sign in the KHL, and hasn't shown too much interest in winning a Cup ahead of getting paid.



Connolly has been scoring at just shy of a point per game for years, and made $4.5m the past two seasons. Hard argument for a pay cut on a guy his age, unless you think his injury history should mean pay cut at age 30 when he's still a top line center.




I said if you assume Zherdev would score 50-60 points with Flip and Dats, then Hudler could potentially score 80 with a full season alongside Datsyuk. Given Hudler's proven chemistry and history with Dats, I don't think that's as far fetched as you think it might be. I didn't say it made him an elite player. I said he would be significantly more productive than Zherdev in the same situation. That's pretty much common sense, isn't it?

Bulls**t.

You pretty much gave the perception that 80+ points is a guarantee. You may claim that you didn't say or type that specifcially, but it is still the PERCEPTION you gave off, and people are going to remember the PERCEPTION of your response, so quit backpedaling.

It is you, after all, talking about Hudler here. Embelishment and overhype is your standard regarding him. And what's sad is you still are probably going to be completely oblivious to the fact that you are overhyping him, yet again for the umpteenth time.

#684 Konnan511

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:14 PM

He was also -8 in his last 8 games. I agree he's ready, but I don't think +/- proves anything.


Datsyuk was also -2 in his last three games. Context, and you missed it. Plus, pulling up the last 8 or 9 games of the season is a terrible barometer of someones season for the WIngs seeing as how they were scuffling, hence using the final 40 games of Kindl's season.

And yes, +/- does prove things, it's a useful stat. It's not the end all be all stat that some think of it as or the complete worthless stat that other people think it is.
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#685 kipwinger

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:26 PM

Datsyuk was also -2 in his last three games. Context, and you missed it. Plus, pulling up the last 8 or 9 games of the season is a terrible barometer of someones season for the WIngs seeing as how they were scuffling, hence using the final 40 games of Kindl's season.

And yes, +/- does prove things, it's a useful stat. It's not the end all be all stat that some think of it as or the complete worthless stat that other people think it is.



Agreed, plus/minus matters a lot but it's not a stand alone stat. You need to look at it in conjunction with other stats for it to mean much.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#686 hockey23

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 06:59 PM

Datsyuk was also -2 in his last three games. Context, and you missed it. Plus, pulling up the last 8 or 9 games of the season is a terrible barometer of someones season for the WIngs seeing as how they were scuffling, hence using the final 40 games of Kindl's season.

And yes, +/- does prove things, it's a useful stat. It's not the end all be all stat that some think of it as or the complete worthless stat that other people think it is.

That's my point. Kindl had the same +/- in his first 8 games and his last 8 games yet, I think we can all agree, he was much better in the last 8 games. I could also say that Ericsson was a -15 in 09/10 and was +8 this year so 10/11 Ericsson>>09/10 Ericsson. But from watching him, Ericsson didn't really improve from last year, and his +/- was aided by Rafalski's offense. I'm just not a fan of the +/- stat and I don't judge players by it. Anyways, I completely agree with your point about Kindl being much improved and ready to play full time, and I wasn't trying to use his +/- in the last 8 games to prove anything other than the problems I have with judging a player based on +/-.

#687 krsmith17

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:00 PM

Agreed, plus/minus matters a lot but it's not a stand alone stat. You need to look at it in conjunction with other stats for it to mean much.



I don't think any stat should be the complete focus on a players skill.... Anyone that know hockey, can watch a game and instantly see the kind of skilled player on the ice without looking at goals, assists, points, +/-, etc.... that all looks nice on paper but the truth is, it doesn't matter one bit, especially when it comes to playing for the Wings. You know when Babcock decides who is playing he goes with the guy working the hardest and playing well every time, not who's leading the team in points or +/-... anyway that's my two cents... see how many people have to comment on this one....

Anyway I'm not going to respond to any of the bulls*** anymore, to be quite honest I can't stand a lot of the people on this that think they know everything about everything to do with hockey, I guess that's why I have always just read articles and forums, and not got involved in the discussions... a lot of bulls*** back and forth... a lot of extremely opinionated people that think their logic is the only logic, if they don't agree with you, you're automatically wrong...

#688 kipwinger

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:51 PM

If this Jaromir Jagr rumor is true and the Wings sign him, I'm going to lose my s***.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#689 Datsyerberger

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:59 PM

If this Jaromir Jagr rumor is true and the Wings sign him, I'm going to lose my s***.


Fortunately, s*** is one of those things you don't really worry too much about trying to find if you lose it. Unless you're one of those people where things you lose turn up in the damndest places later... then you really don't wanna lose your s***.

"Oh, here it is, turns out it was in my pocket the whole time!"
If some bored artist wants to make me a signature, feel free to cut loose and do so.

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#690 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 03:23 PM

Fortunately, s*** is one of those things you don't really worry too much about trying to find if you lose it. Unless you're one of those people where things you lose turn up in the damndest places later... then you really don't wanna lose your s***.

"Oh, here it is, turns out it was in my pocket the whole time!"


depends on your definition of s***...

"Have your ever noticed that their stuff is s*** and your s*** is stuff?" - R.I.P. George Carlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

Edited by CaliWingsNut, 15 June 2011 - 03:35 PM.

Figures don't lie, but liars sure figure. - Mark Twain


#691 dirtydangles

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:10 PM

if you were to move fil (not saying we should), possibly in a package, who would you move him for?

I suggested moving Franzen a couple times and nobody liked the idea of that... Kenny says he's up for a trade if theres one to be had, i can't see anyone else really being moved.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#692 kipwinger

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:32 AM

if you were to move fil (not saying we should), possibly in a package, who would you move him for?

I suggested moving Franzen a couple times and nobody liked the idea of that... Kenny says he's up for a trade if theres one to be had, i can't see anyone else really being moved.



I don't think Franzen is untouchable. You'd certainly want to get a whole lot for him, but if the trade was right I could see them doing it. I'm not in favor of getting rid of him just to do it, like I am with Jiri, but depending on the return I wouldn't be heartbroken if they moved Franzen.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#693 Majsheppard

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:05 PM

Carolina seems to have lost two players.

Oh and Franzen being traded would only be a good idea if it was the right return.
"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#694 newfy

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:30 PM

Carolina seems to have lost two players.

Oh and Franzen being traded would only be a good idea if it was the right return.

That article has a whole lot I like to read.

First of all, when saying potential buyouts... Davvid Clarkson. If he gets bought out I could see Kenny going for him because he can play and fight, that is exactly what babcock wants on his team. Because of the buy out he would have some money giong towards him so he would probably be able to be had on the cheaper siide of things. If he is up for trade send Hudler for Clarksonn and a 5th rounder or something, that would help toughen up our third line.

Erik Cole and Pitkanen are also having trouble in negotiation with the Canes. Cole is a guy I would like the wings to take a flyer on to add some scoring depth. He put up 50 points last year, hits A LOT, and has top notch speed to add to the top 6. Having a physical presence with speed in the top 6 would help this team out.

Adding Pitkanen could help ease the loss of Rafalski.

I also didnt mind seeing it noted that Osgood and Drapes might not be back, its time to move on

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#695 dirtydangles

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:00 PM

followup to the response about trading franzen or flip...
its already been discussed a bit by a few people, but for the newcomers, would anyone see a trade for Brent Burns happening? maybe with franzen or fil as a part of the deal? People are worried about him not resigning with us when he becomes a UFA at the end of the year, but i don't see many other dmen worth trading for (that are gettable)... id personally risk it, we can promise him a big salary when lids retires and detroit is a great team to play for...

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#696 Crymson

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:44 PM

followup to the response about trading franzen or flip...
its already been discussed a bit by a few people, but for the newcomers, would anyone see a trade for Brent Burns happening? maybe with franzen or fil as a part of the deal? People are worried about him not resigning with us when he becomes a UFA at the end of the year, but i don't see many other dmen worth trading for (that are gettable)... id personally risk it, we can promise him a big salary when lids retires and detroit is a great team to play for...


This has been discussed, and the standard response was "No, no, no." He'd cost an arm and a leg at season's start, and that's not acceptable for a player who could bolt at the end of the season. Even if we offered him a good salary, there would be the possibility that he would bolt anyway. He could also easily turn out to be a poor fit in our system. If we want to trade for the guy, it should be considered at the trade deadline.

You'd risk it? Well, that's why you're not part of the management :)

#697 dirtydangles

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:47 PM

This has been discussed, and the standard response was "No, no, no." He'd cost an arm and a leg at season's start, and that's not acceptable for a player who could bolt at the end of the season. Even if we offered him a good salary, there would be the possibility that he would bolt anyway. He could also easily turn out to be a poor fit in our system. If we want to trade for the guy, it should be considered at the trade deadline.

You'd risk it? Well, that's why you're not part of the management :)


not willing to take risks? that's why you're not part of the management :) two way street on that one ;)

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#698 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:20 PM

Carolina seems to have lost two players.

Oh and Franzen being traded would only be a good idea if it was the right return.


The very bottom of that article is very interesting.... J.MacDonald not back because he wants a 1way contract and Holland only offering 2-way.

Figures don't lie, but liars sure figure. - Mark Twain


#699 Crymson

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:41 PM

not willing to take absolutely insensible risks?


I fixed that one for you. Giving up lots of assets for Burns would be a ludicrously imprudent move.

#700 Konnan511

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 10:04 PM

followup to the response about trading franzen or flip...
its already been discussed a bit by a few people, but for the newcomers, would anyone see a trade for Brent Burns happening? maybe with franzen or fil as a part of the deal? People are worried about him not resigning with us when he becomes a UFA at the end of the year, but i don't see many other dmen worth trading for (that are gettable)... id personally risk it, we can promise him a big salary when lids retires and detroit is a great team to play for...


With Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the twilight of their prime, it doesn't make sense trading away Filppula who is going to be hitting his prime shortly. You'll need Filppula in his prime and Z and D are out of theirs. Trading Franzen is the more logical choice, but I'd sell Hudler for a hotdog first.
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