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Cole suspended three games

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That image shows the puck being shot in by Abdelkader.

My question to you is, why is he shooting the puck into the zone?

If he never saw Cole, he had a clear lane to the net...so why slide it into the zone?

He did so to either get rid of the puck before the hit to dump it in, meaning he saw Cole coming at the last moment, or he was going to try to side step Cole but ended up not having enough time.

That's my opinion on how the play looked like it was developing to me.

And again...I'm not saying Cole shouldn't have been suspended...I think he could have gotten a fine or a suspension, but not more than a game or two. Three seems excessive based on other suspensions that Shanahan has dished out.

The one website I linked to listed a few examples of hits that didn't even get a suspension that looked worse than the hit on Abdelkader.

Abby lost the puck after he was clobbered.

Only took me a minute.

...ok, here you go... written by George Malik (an admitted biased Red Wings fan in his bio) for KuklasKorner.com... the uber biased Red Wing slanted site itself:

So there you go. Funny that that's pretty much what I have been saying. Thoughts?

Yep he said Datsyuk APPEARED to and after further review, even you can admit the principal point of contact was not the head.

That's Stewart, who was behind Abdelkader. He didn't have him tied up, exposing him/making him vulnerable to possible injury from another check. There is no penalty there for Cole coming over to check Abdelkader, had the check been a full body check. In that situation, Cole would never be called for...whatever you want to call it...roughing or whatever because Stewart was a stride behind Abdelkader with his stick on Abdelkader's shins. Not gonna happen.

Still a penalty. He was engaged already with Stewart as he was being stick-checked by him. Cole made a mistake and is now paying for it. It would've have been an interference call if it were a full body check.

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So a Blues player got suspended for hitting a Red Wing, and a Blues fan is pissed off that a Red Wing didn't get suspended for hitting a Blues player? Also, said fan is expressing said pissedoffness on a Red Wings message board, and is taking issue with Red Wings fans on said Red Wings message board for not also believing said Red Wings player should have been suspended as well?

SHOCKING!

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You would be correct if an elbow were in question...but it didn't look like an elbow to me...it's a shoulder to the face...which would be a fine or suspension for most players on most teams. And that picture shows the contact. But I guess because Pierre McGuire said the hit was clean after seeing it once on a replay at ice level, that's all she wrote.

And hey, psst...get this...between you and me, there are some people in this very forum (won't name names) that honestly feel that Jackman wasn't hit in the face at all (NO, I WON'T GET OUT OF TOWN!!) and actually threw his head back ACTING like he was hit (shhh, let me finish), in other words, gasp...faking it (I know, I can't believe it either...but I read it myself, a couple times actually)...even though the picture clearly shows shoulder on face.

I never said Datsyuk's shoulder never hit his face, but he did flop his back like he was ready to go down on Pete North. He tried to embellish it and the refs weren't biting. Not only did he flop his head back, he also decided he should violently bounce off the glass to make it seem even worse. That is a 10 on the Crosby scale of diving. Yes, Dats made contact with his head (not the principle contact though) and Jackman decided that he would try to get the refs attention by embellishing to play.

I would say that could even be a Bill Laimbeer flop...

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I never said Datsyuk's shoulder never hit his face, but he did flop his back like he was ready to go down on Pete North. He tried to embellish it and the refs weren't biting. Not only did he flop his head back, he also decided he should violently bounce off the glass to make it seem even worse. That is a 10 on the Crosby scale of diving. Yes, Dats made contact with his head (not the principle contact though) and Jackman decided that he would try to get the refs attention by embellishing to play.

I would say that could even be a Bill Laimbeer flop...

Wow...and I'm the one who was accused of "spinning"? Well done. :clap:

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Wow...and I'm the one who was accused of "spinning"? Well done. :clap:

No need to spin when it's right in front of your face. Embellish hit to head, then bounce off the boards like you were hit by Clubber Lang. You lose sir, Good Day!

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Many, many, many people blues fans disagree with you. It's kind of been the talk amongst Blues nation for a couple days now.

Fixed for you. Hate the Wings all you want...in the end, Pronger was at fault and until you accept that you will never see things the rest of the NHL and hockey world see... Go watch your Beta copies of the 1991 playoffs because that is the only satisfaction you have had over the Wings in your pathetic franchises existence...Good Day Sir!

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No need to spin when it's right in front of your face. Embellish hit to head, then bounce off the boards like you were hit by Clubber Lang. You lose sir, Good Day!

Dude, there was no jumping back and bouncing off the boards embelleshment by Jackman. He was stunned by the shoulder to the face.

I know Datsyuk is more of a figure skater than a checker, but a shoulder to the face in the NHL isn't usually a love tap...but I can see why you may think that since it was Dainty Datsyuk who delivered the hit.

You need to stop talking. It's one thing to debate if the Datsyuk hit was suspension worthy, but it's quite another to say he barely tapped him and Jackman was faking the whole thing. That's absurd. If Jackman had a well known history of faking and diving, you'd at least have history on your side, but he doesn't...and you don't.

Sorry to break that to you.

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Fixed for you. Hate the Wings all you want...in the end, Pronger was at fault and until you accept that you will never see things the rest of the NHL and hockey world see... Go watch your Beta copies of the 1991 playoffs because that is the only satisfaction you have had over the Wings in your pathetic franchises existence...Good Day Sir!

Ahh...the 'ol fixing of posts.

Why do you keep bringing up Pronger? It's like you have absolutely nothing in this debate so you are trying to discuss other things. That's a desperate tactic in debate speak...just so you know.

Why don't you bring up the number of cups Detroit has won too? Haven't heard that in this thread yet...which is strange.

And nah, while the '91 series was great, as I do remember it vividly...there is more recent satisfaction. Such as the 10-3 drubbing the Blues put on the Wings in Detroit last year and beating the Wings the first two games this year.

No, that's not playoffs...just baby steps...but I'll take what I can get...it was still fun to watch.

Good luck during our next debate. Maybe I'll let you win the next one so you won't feel so bad. ;)

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Ahh...the 'ol fixing of posts.

Why do you keep bringing up Pronger? It's like you have absolutely nothing in this debate so you are trying to discuss other things. That's a desperate tactic in debate speak...just so you know.

Why don't you bring up the number of cups Detroit has won too? Haven't heard that in this thread yet...which is strange.

And nah, while the '91 series was great, as I do remember it vividly...there is more recent satisfaction. Such as the 10-3 drubbing the Blues put on the Wings in Detroit last year and beating the Wings the first two games this year.

No, that's not playoffs...just baby steps...but I'll take what I can get...it was still fun to watch.

Good luck during our next debate. Maybe I'll let you win the next one so you won't feel so bad. ;)

Buddy, buddy, buddy...

...I mention Pronger because this whole debate is should be called the Pronger Affect. Why? Because just like then, you refuse to see what is happening right before your eyes and you make up your own story that you actually believe to make youself feel better. I am not saying Datsyuk didn't hit his head. I am saying Jackman tried to draw attention to it by flopping his head back and bouncing off the boards. It's right there in the video, plain as day, just as you see Abdelkader clearing the puck into the zone and trying to avoid Cole. If you can see that, then you can see what I see in the Datsyuk hit. Which still was not the initial point of contact and was not illegal and was not called a penalty and did not warrant a review OR a suspension. All of which Cole's did.

You can have all the regular season wins you want, just like your boy Elliot can have all the stats and vezina's in the world, it means nothing until you actually win something. I am not gonna mention all the Cups Detroit has, but in 1997 Colorado won every single regular season game against Detroit except one, March 26th. Not only did Detroit win the Cup that year, but the also eliminated Colorado in the Conference Finals in 6 games, ah but being a blues fan, you stopped watching the playoffs after the first round after your boy Pronger possibly cost your team an upset series. I am sure the Avs fans were riding high on the hog when they were beating us in the regular season too, just like you are clinging on to meaningless games. But you can have them, I will take the 16 wins in the post season over 8 wins in the regular season.

Dainty Datsyuk eh? I do agree with you a NHL hit is a NHL hit and these men are pretty strong, but despite that fact, players do embellish hits to draw attention from the refs, and sometimes the refs just laugh and tell the guy to take a seat(paraphrasing of course, I don't want you to think I talk to refs and know exactly what they say.) Just like they probably did with Jackman.

So, keep convincing yourself otherwise from the facts in front of you and you will remain happy inside your little blues world. Just don't leave your city limits because the sun doesn't shine that color outside of your city. But it's your world there, you can place a happy little rock wherever you want. You can have your baby-steps too because like I said, regular season wins mean nothing in the big picture. But since you are mentioning games from the past and years prior in the regular season, just how many Presidents Trophies do the blues have again? One? I see...Detroit has 6. Oh and since 1991, how many times have the blues finished ahead of Detroit in points in the regular season? Once? And you guys still didn't get as far as the Wings did in the playoffs. That must chaff your ass when every year regular season AND playoffs you look up and all you see is Red & White. Sorry dude...I never realized it was that bad in st. louis. No wonder you are satisfied with a couple of regular season wins...since you are so used to losing to us, maybe I will let you win this debate so you can have a little joy this century.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Abby lost the puck after he was clobbered.

Still a penalty. He was engaged already with Stewart as he was being stick-checked by him. Cole made a mistake and is now paying for it. It would've have been an interference call if it were a full body check.

Not that it matters at all to whether there should have been a suspension or not, I can't agree with you on these points. The puck actually leaves Abby's stick before contact is made and on your assertion that there would have been a penalty even if it was a clean body check......no way in hell.

Firstly, I'm not sure where in the interference rules it suggests that you can't hit a player that is already engaged with another player (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there though). Secondlyl, he wasn't engaged with any other player anyway. Another player tried to catch him and get a stick on him, but really didn't get to him.

If that was a clean hit, there would have been no penalty called...I'm guessing here...about 1,000 out of 1,000 times. Maybe if you had it happen a million times tehre may have been a penalty called once, but I doubt it.

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I can't argue anything that hasn't already been said.

But if Dats had gotten suspended for that hit it would have been worth every game.

My favorite part is when he does the "Thornton Peek"

post-6836-0-59987000-1325691974_thumb.jpg

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I never said Datsyuk's shoulder never hit his face, but he did flop his back like he was ready to go down on Pete North. He tried to embellish it and the refs weren't biting. Not only did he flop his head back, he also decided he should violently bounce off the glass to make it seem even worse. That is a 10 on the Crosby scale of diving. Yes, Dats made contact with his head (not the principle contact though) and Jackman decided that he would try to get the refs attention by embellishing to play.

I would say that could even be a Bill Laimbeer flop...

Pretty clean hit by Dats...Jackman's just ticked that the refs didn't buy into it...Now had this hit been on lets say a guy who doesn't act like a ****** (TJ Oshie, or Alex Steen for instance) - then maybe the refs would call a 2 min minor on Dats for whatever sad excuse they could come up with...But Jackman - he's got a rep.

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Not that it matters at all to whether there should have been a suspension or not, I can't agree with you on these points. The puck actually leaves Abby's stick before contact is made and on your assertion that there would have been a penalty even if it was a clean body check......no way in hell.

Firstly, I'm not sure where in the interference rules it suggests that you can't hit a player that is already engaged with another player (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there though). Secondlyl, he wasn't engaged with any other player anyway. Another player tried to catch him and get a stick on him, but really didn't get to him.

If that was a clean hit, there would have been no penalty called...I'm guessing here...about 1,000 out of 1,000 times. Maybe if you had it happen a million times tehre may have been a penalty called once, but I doubt it.

Somebody gets it.

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Somebody gets it.

Not sure what you think I get....

I won't go as far to question why Cole gets suspended on not Datsyuk...completely different plays. I can understand questionning whether Datsyuk's hit was clean or not though...that could potentially be debatable, but whether it is suspension worthy or not isn't debatable in my opinion.

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Not sure what you think I get....

I won't go as far to question why Cole gets suspended on not Datsyuk...completely different plays. I can understand questionning whether Datsyuk's hit was clean or not though...that could potentially be debatable, but whether it is suspension worthy or not isn't debatable in my opinion.

Somebody doesn't get it. ;)

But seriously, I agreed with everything I quoted you on above.

And I've said that I don't have a problem with Cole getting suspended, just the length of suspension.

But I am afraid you are wrong about Datsyuk's hit not being debatable on if it is or isn't suspension worthy...we've been debating it for few pages now.

A lot of Wings fans think it's not suspension worthy. A lot of Blues fans think it could be and wanted it reviewed.

I've heard mixed reviews from other folks who comment after videos and articles.

Not surprising really.

However, to reference an earlier portion of this thread...on the Datsyuk-Jackman hit, I think it's very interesting that the Red Wings blogger at kuklaskorner said, "...a problem that still seems to exist for the NHL is a lack of consistency in terms of dealing with such hits. For instance, Pavel Datsyuk appeared to get away entirely with a hit to Barret Jackman’s head during the same game."

Again, thanks to Leftwinger for requesting that I find "just one" non-Blues fan article that said Datsyuk got away with one...and the first one I find is from none other than an actual Red Wings blogger on a pretty prominent hockey commentary/reporting site. I find that hilarious. :lol:

My point... it's not just Blues fans.

Anyone tired of this debate yet? I am.

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If you're so "tired" of this debate, you probably shouldn't have continued to engage it. You're on a Red Wings message board. This is akin to trying to convince a bunch of vegans that steak is good. You're not going to get anywhere, and you end up looking like a fool.

hillbillywingsfan likes this

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Cole overshot and didn't hit him in the body, recklessly hitting the head.

Jackman changed his whole stance from shoulder-shoulder to shoulder-chest while playing the puck, the incidental contact to Jackman was due to changing his body position.

Changing your position shows you are aware you are about to be hit and lifts the onus to protect from the hitter to the receiver.

Any old timer would tell you that if Jackman had his head up that wouldn't even have happened, Blues fans are the only people debating the events of that game.

The topic Blues fans should be discussing is why the Blues hired the "scorers" from Dallas' goon days, then surprise fired an admitted good coach and hired the coach from Dallas' goon days.

Then start a new topic about how you didn't realize this was StL plan the whole time, the responses will direct you to the official 2011-12 season game plan thread.

Edited by Wingzman91

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