Early Off-Season Thread

[Esquire 324]

We have no idea how much cap space there will be. I have read everywhere from 6 million more in cap space to the cap going down by 25%. The CBA will dictate that more than anything else, and really we don't know what will happen with that. I suspect that Suter would be added no matter what... I don't know about anyone else.

IMO, these are the only two points anyone should be concerned about at this point. We're also assuming there will actually be a season next year.

[RippedOnNitro 22]

My gut tells me that we won't sign any of Suter and Parise. But then again...I was pleasantly surprised when Hossa signed.

I also find it hardly to believe that we are going to sit with a lot of cap space left (again) without having a plan to spend it wisely.

But as Majsheppard and Esquire mentioned...what will happen to the cap? And is there even going to be a (recuded) season?

Btw...if the cap goes down, what will happen with teams already spending over the cap? Do they need to buy out players or something like that?

Edited March 28, 2012 by RippedOnNitro

[sean 19]

Good players is the reason this team has made the playoffs 21 seasons in a row.

Remember a guy named Marian Hossa?

True, Hossa was a big signing, a very un-Holland one, IMO. But, I was surprised he signed a one year deal...I'm not so sure Parise would do that.

[mmamolo 287]

The irony of it all is that the current CBA runs until September 15th...That'll give GM's ample opportunity to overpay July 1st.

I'm hoping Holland lets Hudler walk, re-signs Quincey, and adds Parise...Somehow I get the feeling Suter will stay a Pred.

A few weeks ago on HNIC's "Satellite Hotstove" the panel mentioned that there would likely be another "roll back" of salaries to get teams under a new cap...All I see is another lock-out looming.

Assuming a roll back without a lockout it really would work out well for GMs and teams. It would mean that on July 1 you could build your team under the cap number (whatever it gets announced as) and ideally sign players on that basis. Then, when the roll back happens everyone's salaries take a hit. obviously a lockout would be the concern but if it's a small rollback the players may be fine with it.

What's even better (financially) is that for teams with players signed long term (i.e. Zetterberg, Franzen) after the roll back their salaries not only decrease but remain at that new level as the cap (ideally) rises year after year moving forward. That would mean an increased bargain.

[JPT 26]

Assuming a roll back without a lockout it really would work out well for GMs and teams.

I don't think the players will feel quite so rosy about this.

I think it's in the long term interest of the team to sign a Parise or Suter. I know neither are guaranteed and I'm not suggesting that we should overpay(~7mil/yr I suppose is market rate)but the stars on this team are aging and a forward is not going to be effective in his late 30's(Selanne aside). We need some younger top end talent on the team so when Dats and Z are getting up there we don't have to rely on them so much.

I know there is some nice talent in the pipe but you never know what will happen with those guys....

[mmamolo 287]

I don't think the players will feel quite so rosy about this.

I think it's in the long term interest of the team to sign a Parise or Suter. I know neither are guaranteed and I'm not suggesting that we should overpay(~7mil/yr I suppose is market rate)but the stars on this team are aging and a forward is not going to be effective in his late 30's(Selanne aside). We need some younger top end talent on the team so when Dats and Z are getting up there we don't have to rely on them so much.

I know there is some nice talent in the pipe but you never know what will happen with those guys....

Well, yeah, I'm not saying the players would be thrilled. Last time there was a rollback of 22% (I believe). The players also lost an entire year's worth of earnings. If the owners presented a rollback of say 5% it might not be so bad. Either way, that's all irrelevant. I was just saying that working on the assumption that there is a rollback (and preferably no lock out) that it could be to the teams advantage. That's why it will and should be business as usual come July 1

[kipwinger 8,521]

Good players is the reason this team has made the playoffs 21 seasons in a row.

Remember a guy named Marian Hossa?

You mean the Marian Hossa who Holland had no interest in, and who's agent called Holland and said that Hossa wanted to play for Detroit so bad that he'd take a pay cut and sign a short term deal to do so? I remember him too, but I hardly think that his actions are par for the course.

Edited March 28, 2012 by kipwinger

[sean 19]

i just negged you by mistake

[Guest blueadams]

The people saying that there's NO chance we will sign either Parise or Suter, with all the cap space that we're going to have, are some combination of insane and extremely negative.

#1) I think we will sign Parise, regardless of what happens. We do need a legit top 6 scorer desperately. This will be our time to get one.

#2) If Lidstrom retires, then we probably get Suter too (kind of like when we replaced Schneider with Rafalski). That's a big hole to fill and it will take a big commitment.

#3) If Lidstrom doesn't retire, then we probably don't get Suter. Maybe we'll wait for Weber, or whoever else, next season. I'd love it if we traded Cleary and let Quincey walk, but it probably won't happen.

Most likely 2012/2013 Detroit Red Wings Team:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Parise

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Filppula

Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi (I hate this line)

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves

Emmerton

Mursak

Lidstrom or Suter-White

Kronwall-Smith

Ericsson-Quincey

Kindl

Howard

MacDonald

Edited March 29, 2012 by blueadams

[VM1138 1,921]

Here's the thing, why push hard for Parise when he will easily go between 7-8 million. I know he's really good and can score around 40 goals, but do we really need a 40 goal guy? Wouldn't we be just as well off with another 25-30 goal scorer to fill out the top six and save the extra money. Basically, I'm thinking about someone like Montreal got in Erik Cole last season, or Pittsburgh has in Neal.

As witnessed the last three years, Detroit can never have enough 40 goal guys. This year we didn't even crack 30 goals from anyone. The 20 goal depth scorer strategy is fine and all, but the Wings have been relying on that for years and it's been painful at times. We need someone who can consistently score for when Franzen is in a slump and Dats and Z are injured.

[Esquire 324]

As witnessed the last three years, Detroit can never have enough 40 goal guys. This year we didn't even crack 30 goals from anyone. The 20 goal depth scorer strategy is fine and all, but the Wings have been relying on that for years and it's been painful at times. We need someone who can consistently score for when Franzen is in a slump and Dats and Z are injured.

Players with 40 goals or more:

2011-12 = 2 (so far)

2010-11 = 5

2009-10 = 7

2008-09 = 8

Nevermind Detroit, the entire LEAGUE needs more 40 goal scorers. Expecting the number of prolific goal scorers of years past to be readily available in today's NHL is a pipe dream for fans. The Blues top goal scorer has 23 goals on the season yet they get it done. We need to level our expectations going forward.

And having a single prolific goal scorer who goes on streaks takes a back seat to an entire team who consistantly chip in if you were to ask me. Hell, just ask St.Louis.

[Tim Cheveldae's Ghost 9]

We'll need to see what happens from CBA talks to accurately determine how much cap space the Wings will have to spend. General thinking is that the owners will want the cap lowered and no longer tied to league revenues so that it stays stagnant or moves very little.

[Z and D for the C 712]

You mean the Marian Hossa who Holland had no interest in, and who's agent called Holland and said that Hossa wanted to play for Detroit so bad that he'd take a pay cut and sign a short term deal to do so?

Where are you getting this? What GM would have ZERO interest in a player like Hossa? And did he sign him or not?

Don't be stupid, of course Holland was interested in Hossa but he probably never though Hossa would sign a one year contract.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Z and D for the C

[mmamolo 287]

Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi (I hate this line)

What's to hate about that line? Cleary has been hobbled this year because of his knee problems. But typically he's a much better and quicker skater than he has displayed this season. Bertuzzi is much better with the puck than people sometimes give him credit for being. I actually think this is the preferred (for me) 3rd line

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Players with 40 goals or more:

2011-12 = 2 (so far)

2010-11 = 5

2009-10 = 7

2008-09 = 8

Nevermind Detroit, the entire LEAGUE needs more 40 goal scorers. Expecting the number of prolific goal scorers of years past to be readily available in today's NHL is a pipe dream for fans. The Blues top goal scorer has 23 goals on the season yet they get it done. We need to level our expectations going forward.

And having a single prolific goal scorer who goes on streaks takes a back seat to an entire team who consistantly chip in if you were to ask me. Hell, just ask St.Louis.

But we have a potential 40 goal scorer that can be readily available for the right price this very offseason.

Why would you not even want to try for a player who's talent can make the players around him better?

[Esquire 324]

But we have a potential 40 goal scorer that can be readily available for the right price this very offseason.

Why would you not even want to try for a player who's talent can make the players around him better?

I've never once said the Wings shouldn't make a play for Parise, if that's who you are implying about. In fact, I hope desperately that they land him. Whether he actually hits 40+ goals or not is still to see but all signs point that way.

My point was that the number of players who put up big time goals has diminished over the years and that feverish dreams of having more than one 40+ goal scorer on your team need to be tempered with the realization that even one 40+ goal scorer on your team is a massive luxury, let alone expecting 3-4 of your players reaching those heights.

[Guest blueadams]

What's to hate about that line? Cleary has been hobbled this year because of his knee problems. But typically he's a much better and quicker skater than he has displayed this season. Bertuzzi is much better with the puck than people sometimes give him credit for being. I actually think this is the preferred (for me) 3rd line

meh. idk. none of the three can really do anything with the puck. bertuzzi can hold onto the puck crossing into the zone occassionally, but he can't really pass well, or accept passes well, or move the puck through traffic. he's basically having a good year because he's a big body that charges the net and takes defenders with him, creating space for pav and mule to work (and also being used as a deflection board by pav).

It's less likely, but I'd rather have it like this...

Miller-Helm-Eaves/Mursak...or maybe even Tatar?

Cleary-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

It will be an interesting offseason considering Lidstrom and Holmstrom's futures are up in the air. Assuming Holmstrom retires and Lidstrom sticks around, here is what the Detroit Red Wings would do under GM Bring Back The Bruise Bros:

-Get Justin Abdelkader re-signed.

-Let Conklin walk.

-Sign Mike Smith for a solid backup for Howard.

-Let Hudler walk.

-Stuart decides to test free agency.

-Get Kyle Quincey re-signed

-If Franzen is invisible in the playoffs, deal him to Philadelphia straight up for Wayne Simmonds.

-Trade Jonathan Ericsson to Dallas for Mark Fistric and a pick.

-Trade Dan Cleary and Cory Emmerton to Tampa Bay for Ryan Malone (Yzerman takes the trade because its Detroit)

-Sign Tanner Glass

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Simmonds/Franzen

Malone-Filppula-Nyquist

Abdelkader-Helm-Bertuzzi

Miller-Mursak-Glass

Eaves

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Quincey

Fistric-B.Smith

Kindl

Howard

Smith

Kind of hard to predict what state Eaves will be in, so I've got him as the extra forward, for now.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[Dabura 12,207]

My point was that the number of players who put up big time goals has diminished over the years and that feverish dreams of having more than one 40+ goal scorer on your team need to be tempered with the realization that even one 40+ goal scorer on your team is a massive luxury, let alone expecting 3-4 of your players reaching those heights.

...All of which makes Parise that much sexier.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

It will be an interesting offseason considering Lidstrom and Holmstrom's futures are up in the air. Assuming Holmstrom retires and Lidstrom sticks around, here is what the Detroit Red Wings would do under GM Bring Back The Bruise Bros:

-Get Justin Abdelkader re-signed.

-Let Conklin walk.

-Sign Mike Smith for a solid backup for Howard.

-Let Hudler walk.

-Stuart decides to test free agency.

-Get Kyle Quincey re-signed

-If Franzen is invisible in the playoffs, deal him to Philadelphia straight up for Wayne Simmonds.

I can't imagine a scenario where Philly would deal Wayne Simmonds for Johan Franzen.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I can't imagine a scenario where Philly would deal Wayne Simmonds for Johan Franzen.

I know, wishful thinking. I'd definitely listen to offers. Doubt he is traded, regardless of his playoff performance. But something has to be done if we come up short again. Year in and year out of virtually the same roster typically will not yield much different results.

[Guest blueadams]

you know, i think we'd have enough money leftover to resign Hudler too...

Filppula-Datsyuk-Parise

Hudler-Zetterberg-Franzen

Tatar-Nyquist-Bertuzzi

Cleary-Helm-Abdelkader

Miller

Eaves

Emmerton

Mursak

Lidstrom/Suter-White

Kronwall-Smith

Quincey-Ericsson

Kindl

Howard

MacDonald

...some forwards (hopefully, but not likely, Cleary) would need to be moved...and it's just a personal pipe dream of mine that Tatar makes the team and we put together a third scoring line...but man, I like that group.