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Jedi

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Jakub Kindl signs 4 year extension, $9.6m total, $2.4m/yr

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He was 4th in TOI during the regular season and 5th in the playoffs. So that doesnt seem like #7 to me. Im all for letting you have your OPINION, but I'd at least like you to admit that you dont have any statistics to base your "#7 defenseman from a defensively inconsistent standpoint" argument on.

It's pretty hilarious that in one single post you can misrepresent my point to argue against it but then mostly sum it up correctly.

You don't have any statistics to prove your opinion either. That's why they're opinions.

It's also why watching the games is a great way to form an opinion of a player.

After you've taken one relatively minor point I made regarding Kindl's contract and repeatedly misconstrued it, I think we've derailed the thread enough here.

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It's pretty hilarious that in one single post you can misrepresent my point to argue against it but then mostly sum it up correctly.

I don't need to admit anything. You don't have any statistics to base your opinion on either. That's why they're opinions. There really isn't a stat that definitely shows that.

It's also why watching the games is a great way to form an opinion of a player.

Its pretty hilarious that you dont use any FACTS/STATS to support your opinions. It would be nice to read a sound argument and debate it instead of just a baseless one.

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Its pretty hilarious that you dont use any FACTS/STATS to support your opinions. It would be nice to read a sound argument and debate it instead of just a baseless one.

You may disagree but mine actually is a reasonably sound argument. I've used statistics to support my case, but as I mentioned repeatedly, it also relies on watching the games. Sorry if it offends you because I said something mildly critical of one of your favorite players, but that doesn't make it baseless.

A baseless argument would be this one.

The stats dont support your argument is all. +/- is kept so you can see what players are the most beneficial to a team 5 on 5. This stat can be skewed, as the top pairing usually faces the other team's top line(s) and vice versa. But in Kindl's case, he was seeing big minutes last season. Babcock wasnt shielding him from the superstars. His +/- is a great indicator that he was taking care of his business in hid own end. Babcock mentioned this several times last season.

First, he wasn't playing big minutes. As has been covered, his average TOI per game was 18:33, which puts him at #6 on the depth chart when everyone is healthy. 2:36 of his minutes were on the PP, which means he only average 15:40 per game at Even Strength, and 15 seconds on the PK. That average ES TOI puts him 7th. 6th if you dont' want to count Cola. Kronwall by comparison was playing 18:01 ES minutes per game. And Ericsson was close behind with 17:55. Those are big minutes against top competition. In the playoffs the gap between the top pairing and other D men because even more pronounced.

Second, +/- is in no way a great indicator of taking care of business in your own end. I've used this example before, but Lidstrom finished a -2 in 2011. Using your reasoning, Brian Rafalski was best on the team at "taking care of business in his own end" with a +11 while Lidstrom was apparently worst at it among the regular defensive corps. Watching the games tells us that's not actually the case. Rafalski was often a liability defensively with his small stature and ailing knee.

There's also the small point of Lidstrom winning the Norris that year, but I guess that's not a stat really so it doesn't count.

All of this makes it seem like I'm being harder on Kindl than I actually am. All I was saying is he needs to improve his consistency in his own zone and this contract will be worth it.

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quincey only has one year left on his contract, thank god. - 3,775,000

Yeah, Holland will lock him up to 6 years $36 million extension :P

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You may disagree but mine actually is a reasonably sound argument. I've used statistics to support my case, but as I mentioned repeatedly, it also relies on watching the games. Sorry if it offends you because I said something mildly critical of one of your favorite players, but that doesn't make it baseless.

A baseless argument would be this one.

First, he wasn't playing big minutes. As has been covered, his average TOI per game was 18:33, which puts him at #6 on the depth chart when everyone is healthy. 2:36 of his minutes were on the PP, which means he only average 15:40 per game at Even Strength, and 15 seconds on the PK. That average ES TOI puts him 7th. 6th if you dont' want to count Cola. Kronwall by comparison was playing 18:01 ES minutes per game. And Ericsson was close behind with 17:55. Those are big minutes against top competition. In the playoffs the gap between the top pairing and other D men because even more pronounced.

Second, +/- is in no way a great indicator of taking care of business in your own end. I've used this example before, but Lidstrom finished a -2 in 2011. Using your reasoning, Brian Rafalski was best on the team at "taking care of business in his own end" with a +11 while Lidstrom was apparently worst at it among the regular defensive corps. Watching the games tells us that's not actually the case. Rafalski was often a liability defensively with his small stature and ailing knee.

There's also the small point of Lidstrom winning the Norris that year, but I guess that's not a stat really so it doesn't count.

Youre getting closer. Im totally in agreement with you on +/- being a "loose" stat. Ian White had a huge +/- a few years ago because of his partner and he's a benchwarmer without Lidstrom. But Im not in agreement with you on your TOI argument. Smith passed Kuba on the depth chart during the playoffs, and possibly DeKeyser as well. But 18 and a half minutes a night out of Kindl is HUGE. There are only 120 minutes to divide between 6 defensemen. If each one plays equal minutes, thats 20 each right? Top pairing gets a little more. 2nd/3rd pairings get a little less, right? Kindl is gobbling up minutes because he's dependable This is where you are off. Maybe one more season will change your mind. Playing with DeKeyser will help too.

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