Buppy

I suppose you predicted Cole and Ryder would have career years last year? Both players were in their 30s. Ryder had two straight 18g seasons, Cole scored 18, 11(40 games), and 26 his previous 3. Niether was a bonafide top-6 winger. Neither was any better than Cleary was in 2010-11. Had Holland signed either you'd have seent he same bitching we're seeing now for the Sammy signing. And there's no guarantee they would have put up the same numbers here. It's unlikely either would have made any significant difference. Most likely you'd still be here complaining about Kenny signing even more old guys. Besides, we were 2nd in the league in GF in 10-11, one less goal than Vancouver. We didn't "need" a top-6 winger. We don't really need one now for that matter. We have 4 good top-6 forwards, and 3-5 guys who can potentially fill a top-6 role. If we add more, great. If not, no big deal (assuming we don't trade one of the top four).

99-01, 2nd round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss... 03-07, 1st round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss, 3rd round loss... Hawks 11-12, 1st round loss, 1st round loss... Wings drafts from 95-97 (Scotty was director of player personnel), 27 players picked, 8 played at least 1 NHL game, combined total: 415gp, 17g, 47p We were perfectly capable of some "poor" stretches even with Scotty. It's a team game, and that goes for the front office as well. I'm sure Scotty was a positive factor, as many others in scouting and management are. All deserve thier fair share of credit, and all their fair share of blame (which IMO is none). You can't say "everyone else" deserves all the credit, but Kenny alone gets all the blame. One thing all the Kenny bashers seem to be ignoring is the fact that what the Wings are going through now is exactly what the "parity rules" were purposely designed to cause. The draft, the cap, lowering the FA age, etc...all of that designed specifically to prevent teams from being as good as the Wings have been for as long as we have been. In Holland's tenure as GM, every single other team has missed the playoffs at least once. The Wings weren't the only good team in 98, nor were they head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. Colorado, New Jersey, Dallas...all have rebuilt (or are still trying to) since then. Other teams have come and gone. In 08 we had Hank, Mule, Flip, Hudler, Sammy, Cleary, Stuart, and maybe more that I'm forgetting contributing at a level above thier cap hit. Then we had to start paying people. We lost some guys, and couldn't afford top FAs. When we got some cap space, long-term contracts and/or more competition for 27yo UFAs limited the players available. Unless you're picking in the top of the first round, you can't expect recent draft picks to add anything. 25 players drafted in 2010 or 11 have played in the NHL. 17 were picked 14th or earlier. Of the other 8, only 3 have played more than 10 games. 3 out of 393. Even the 2009 class is mostly just starting to break in to NHL rosters. 49 of 197 picked 15th or later have played in the NHL, only 15 have played 40 or more games. Average contribution from the 49 so far is 37 games, ~3.8g, 11p. We also haven't had much contribution yet from the 06, 07, or 08 drafts, when Scotty was still here. And there's a lot more NHL regulars from those years now. Much of our long-term success strategy has been reliance on veterans. That, and lacking top prospects, limit our trade options. A couple years with no cap space limited them further. This last year, when we had space and some assests we could trade, almost no one was on the market and prices for many that were rumored to be were apparently too high for anyone to pay, given the lack of trades. In short, this is how it's supposed to work. If you think Scotty, or anyone else, would have made any real difference, you're not being reasonable.

Short-term overpayment would be ok, but not for 6-13 years... If people are worried that we're not a playoff team right now, then with Carle we'd be at best a 7-8 seed. If we're a 7 or 8 now, then with Carle we're maybe a 5. And regardless, we may still need a full rebuild soon depending on how Pav and Hank continue to age. What Carle would bring is not worth making that commitment.

Might have something to do with his contract running out now and not three years ago...

From what I gather, both the Ducks and Coyotes are reportedly looking for a top-6 center, plus pciks/prospects. He's elgible to sign an extension. If that was the real stumbling block, let him talk to the potential team to work out an extension first.

"Should have been more prepared", I think I'm going to get really sick of that phrase before this summer's over. How many GMs anywhere have overseen even one seamless transition in team leadership, let alone two? Sure, in hindsight, we should have just tanked the last three years so we'd have more young talent now. Bet you'd all have loved that. Realistically, we "should" have had to rebuild 8 years ago, but stupid Kenny had to go and try to win Cups. And he only got one, damn him.

I'd agree. Nash or Ryan would be a dumb trade unless we could somehow do it without moving Flip or Franzen (or straight up for either). Too close to lateral to really help us, and takes away assets we might be able to use for a defenseman.

Missing out on Carle wouldn't be too big a deal. A stop-gap like Hannan or Roszival might be better anyway if we can't swing a trade. Depends on how much Carle would take. $4M or less for 2-4 years? Probably not now that he's the "best" one left. And he's not good enough to make a big difference in how far we can go. Regarding the bold: I see Kenny taking a lot of flak the last few years for expressing confidence in our players. It's like people see comments like that and completely forget what he's tried to do or the circumstances we've been in, and also ignore anything he says about considering other options. Seriously, what do you expect him to say? You think he should act like a fan and say, "This f'in sucks! We suck now and we won't make the playoffs ever again!!!1! Franzen's an A-hole!!one! I'm trading everyone!!?/! I'll trade Joe Louis for that Rocky statue!!! Next guy that walks through that door is getting a blank check just so we can say we did something!!exclamation point!" The last few years, either because of the cap or lack of available players, our options have been very limited. Sucks that we haven't landed any of those few as of yet, but there's no reason for even fans to be as negative as they have been, much less for Kenny to be.

Yeah, because missing the one and only #1 defenseman to hit free agency in the two years we have had cap space is such a horrible performance. For two years we were tight to the cap, and could not have added anyone of significance without losing other significant players. You'd just be trading one current hole for another. When Rafi retired we could have done more, but there just weren't many options. Would Ehrhoff really be the solution to our problem now? So... Cam Barker and Sami Lepisto? Good news, then. Both are still available...

You want to change our image, you'd have to trade Pav and Hank for young up-and-coming stars to rebuild around. Most likely we'd be missing the playoffs for a couple years before we start getting back in contention. I don't really see how that's all that preferable to just making do with what we have and rebuilding later, other than being a bit more exciting in the short term.

Except if we re-sign Abby we'd then have two extra forwards on the roster. Nyquist could still be sent to GR, but there's still at least one forward to move, assuming we don't try to add another top 6 forward. Given Holland's comment about 'kids not developing', I have a feeling we may move Emmerton and Mursak, though I wouldn't be totally shocked if we tried getting them through waivers. Depending on who we sign we could also move someone higher paid like Flip and/or Cleary. Long story short, I don't think we're done at forward, and Sammy/Tootoo/Brunner are just giving us more options.

7 1/2 hours into FA, the big names all still out there, we have offers in for them, a boatload of cap space left, and a bunch of players to give us a ton of flexibility for trades or roster depth... And you're angry? Expecting a little much I think...

Ilitch is a billionaire, no good reason not to offer both Suter and Parise the max in salary and bonuses the first couple years, so long as they keep the cap hits reasonable. Biggest UFA in the year with the highest cap. Richards got $24M in salary & bonuses for his first two years, no reason Parise wouldn't be higher with a higher cap.

Length is determined by the player's age, it had to be two years.

At this time, since there is no new CBA yet, there is no bonus cushion. There may be one once a new CBA is reached, but for now we have to figure on bonuses being factored the same as any other salary, at least until they become impossible to earn. Two things: You can't sign a new contract until the final year of the existing contract (after July 1st of next year), and even if you could, the 35+ clause goes by the age of the player in the first year of the new contract, not the age when the contract is signed. Though the next CBA may not even have a 35+ clause anyway.

Got to be something against Shanny. Oates and Bure get passed over how many times? Including the last two years when the inductees were Dino (alone), then Gilmour, Beflour, Nieuwendyk, and Howe. And I think there was another weak class they were eligible for. Now they get in over Shanny? I don't get how that happens...

Doubt anyone would offersheet Quincey, but then again, the Sharks offered $3.5M for Hjalmarsson...

If we miss out on Suter and Parise, trading for Getzlaf would be retarded. It would cost most of our tradeable assets (assuming we even could make a package the Ducks would accept) and we'd still be left with a Grand Canyon-sized hole on defense. Our forwards are fine, even if we have to settle on Plan D or E (ie Hudler). 2nd best UFA defenseman is Wideman. Think about that. We miss out on Suter, I think we try for Yandle. I haven't heard any rumors of anyone else that might be available, but any major trade would have to be for defense. We end up with Carle and Quincey to replace Nick and Stu, it's going to hurt.

But we'd still be taking the cap hit regardless of how he plays. It's possible we could afford it, as my lineup showed, but that's pretty optimistic. That was a money thing. Could technically afford Miller over one of them, but that makes it even tighter to the cap. Not that it's all that realistic anyway. Of the 8 guys I signed, 6-7 could be low. In any case, my main point was that I'd love Schultz as a Kindl replacement, but not as a Quincey (or a top 4 UFA) replacement. I don't really want to rely on White/Smith/Schultz/Kindl on an already mediocre PK, or E/Smith/Schultz/Kindl/a foward on an already mediocre PP.

I'd love to have Schultz in our system, but I really don't think we're in the right situation to be committing almost $4M in cap and a roster spot to an unproven kid. That's something for a team that's rebuilding or a team that already has a really strong top 4. I don't think a top-4 that includes both White and Ericsson is really strong, and if any of the top 4 were injured we'd be banking on two rookies and Kindl. Remember that Ericsson looked very good in his first call-up, but took quite a while (and quite a beating here) to get where he is now, just starting to establish himself. There's no guarantees with either Smith or Schultz. Now if we were to sign Suter and someone like Wideman first, then sign Schultz to replace Kindl, I'd be all for it. White, E, Smith, and Schultz would all fight for time. Something like... FORWARDS Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m) Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damien Brunner ($1.000m) Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / Adam Burish ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) DEFENSEMEN Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Dennis Wideman ($4.500m) Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m) Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Justin Schultz ($3.775m) Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) Scott Clemmensen ($1.200m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,871,212; BONUSES: $37,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $428,788

It's $3.775 max. The $925,000 salary maximum includes any signing bonus. Plus $2,850,000 max performance bonuses. For now at least, there is no bonus carry-over, so that entire amount would have to be treated the same as any other cap hit.

Minor corrections: ELC max is $925,000 including signing bonus. "A" performance bonuses are capped at $850,000, and "B" capped at $2 million, for a total max cap hit of $3.775 million. There is also a cap on non-ELC salaries/bonuses. 20% of the team cap in the year the contract is signed. I believe the info you quoted is from pre-lockout.

While I can understand why certain people are excited, keep in mind... 5th round pick, ~10% chance he'll be anything more than a fringe NHLer. Though if it makes you feel any better, Helm was also a 5th rounder.

Well, if he lands Suter and Parise and we win the Cup, I think it will cement his legacy as a HoF GM. If he lands neither, and we miss the playoffs or exit early it will tarnish his image in the short term (unfairly), but long term he will still be remembered as one of the best. Remember, he was also assistant GM for 3 years, and director of amatuer scouting for 7 before that. He played a significant role in building the team he "inherited". He's also made some big moves that people consider "failures" just because they didn't result in a Cup. Hossa, Hatcher, Clark/Samuelsson/Ranford, Cujo, Lang... He's also facing an uphill battle. We may need some big signing or trade, but that doesn't make doing it any easier. There's one real impact defenseman who might be available, and about 20 teams with the desire and ability to make a good offer for him. We have some assets to trade, but that doesn't mean any teams with the players we want will make those players available or be interested in what we can offer. Fact is, if Red Wings fans judged other teams or GMs by the same standard Kenny has to live up to, they'd all be considered abject failures. We just lost the best defenseman of our generation, plus Stu, Rafi last year. Our stars are in their 30s. We haven't had any high draft picks during his tenure. We've dealt with the loss of stars and key roleplayers, like Konstantinov, Hasek, Yzerman, Hull, Fedorov, Robitaille, Shanahan, Chelios, Draper, Maltby, Osgood, Fischer, and more without needing to rebuild. And we are still talking about making moves to keep us a Cup contender rather than about rebuilding. That says alot more about Kenny than anything that might happen July 1st or afterward. But if we don't make any big moves, and Kenny says, like last summer or the deadline, "We wanted to make some moves, but could find one that fit. But we like our team." everyone will just jump on the "we like our team" bit. As if all the best FAs offered to play here for free and every other GM offered to trade us their best players for our worst and Kenny turned them down. It's like half this board thinks the rest of the league has to get Kenny's permission before they can do anything, and the only reason we haven't done more already is because we didn't want to.

Thought I read somewhere that both will be qualified, and deals worked out later in the summer, likely after the start of free agency. I doubt either would get any offers we wouldn't match, though with Quincey it would depend on who we sign. If you compare Quincey to the UFA defenseman, he'd be top-10, maybe even top-5. We need two defenseman who can both play both the PP and the PK, and if at all possible be comfortable playing against top lines. Quincey is one of the few who fits all that. Abby is easily replaced, but not likely to get an offer high enough that we'd rather have the compensation.