Rumor: Holland talking to NJD about Gionta

[Mighty Wings 0]

You gotta get him if its just hudler and a 1st. I just hope its hudler not filppula, grigs, or howard. I agree with RB! in theory, but rather than wait until the trade deadline to overpay for a goalscorer anyway, you might as well get gionta now. He is gritty, doesn't mind mixing it up after the whistle and posseses plenty of speed, which we don't have too much of. Bottom line, he fills a need.

I get to see the Devils play on a regular basis. Gionta might have worked if Detroit had a couple of big bodies up front, but we don't. I see absolutely no reason for Detroit to get even smaller. Not even goals. Detroit will be pushed around as usual next season, and not winnning the Presidents' Trophy is the last thing on my mind.

Its not like the line he played on in NJ had big bodies either(Elias-Gomez-Gionta). Even if u are that concerned about big bodies, u can just line up homer on the left side of his line.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Mighty Wings

[KrazyGangsta 79]

is he signed or is a RFA and how much would he be asking ...

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

^^ RFA. Wants around $3.5M

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Sammy can be the big body on the first line, Franzen on the second. Hudler is basically going to play at the spot Gionta could occupy. Gionta has played with Gomez plenty, they've always found a way to score goals, no matter how big the opponent. Size isn't everything, these small guys have guile and speed, something we lack. Oh yeah, Gionta also has plenty of grit and doesn't get pushed around.

Screw the Presidents Trophy, we're not talking about that.

Sammy doesn't "play" big. Franzen does to an extent, but that's just one player. I'd rather not give another roster spot up for another small player. That's it. Gionta's grit or determination or scoring ability isn't really the issue here. Detroit is a smallish team already, how about getting some big bodies for a change?! I'd rather sign LeClerc for cheap than give up another pick for Gionta.

[Heaton 1]

Sammy doesn't "play" big. Franzen does to an extent, but that's just one player. I'd rather not give another roster spot up for another small player. That's it. Gionta's grit or determination or scoring ability isn't really the issue here. Detroit is a smallish team already, how about getting some big bodies for a change?! I'd rather sign LeClerc for cheap than give up another pick for Gionta.

You're so incensed with getting big bodies that you actually believe LeClrec would have a bigger impact in the regular and post season than Gionta would?

This team needs to get bigger and tougher but Gionta addresses a HUGE hole we have on the wings.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Heaton

[RyanBarnes! 293]

You're so incensed with getting big bodies that you actually believe LeClrec would have a bigger impact in the regular and post season than Gionta would?

This team needs to get bigger and tougher but Gionta addresses a HUGE hole we have on the wings.

Did I say so? It would be a step in the right direction. I don't think Detroit's chances depend on trading for Gionta. I'm sorry if you can't understand my concern, but hey stranger things have happened.

[Heaton 1]

Did I say so? It would be a step in the right direction. I don't think Detroit's chances depend on trading for Gionta. I'm sorry if you can't understand my concern, but hey stranger things have happened.

I totally understand your concern, but at the same time you don't pass up on a guy like Brian Gionta to get someone like Mike LeClerc. Step in the right direction, yes, but not a large enough step to justify passing him up.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

I totally understand your concern, but at the same time you don't pass up on a guy like Brian Gionta to get someone like Mike LeClerc. Step in the right direction, yes, but not a large enough step to justify passing him up.

That depends on the price of Gionta, and the alternative cost in signing LeClerc and saving a 1st round pick, wouldn't you agree?

[norrisnick 1]

That depends on the price of Gionta, and the alternative cost in signing LeClerc and saving a 1st round pick, wouldn't you agree?

No, because you fail to acknowledge that speed and goal-scoring from the wings is as big of a need as toughness. Size is completely irrelevant

[RyanBarnes! 293]

No, because you fail to acknowledge that speed and goal-scoring from the wings is as big of a need as toughness. Size is completely irrelevant

Whoever told you that is lying. Edited September 15, 2006 by RyanBarnes!

[norrisnick 1]

Assuming your referring to my last sentence.

Who would you rather have play for the Wings? Viktor Kozlov (6'4" 232lb) or Brenden Morrow (5'11" 210lb)?

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

Sammy doesn't "play" big. Franzen does to an extent, but that's just one player. I'd rather not give another roster spot up for another small player. That's it. Gionta's grit or determination or scoring ability isn't really the issue here. Detroit is a smallish team already, how about getting some big bodies for a change?! I'd rather sign LeClerc for cheap than give up another pick for Gionta.

Gionta can score goals. We just lose 40 goals to NY. You got a plan to replace that?

Mike LeClerc is an injury-prone, suspect-skating winger who has never reached top line potential. He will not be able to keep up on the top line. Why the heck do we need him?!

You have one thing and one thing on your mind only, and that's size. If you can't realize what Gionta brings to the table, this discussion is futile.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Assuming your referring to my last sentence.

Who would you rather have play for the Wings? Viktor Kozlov (6'4" 232lb) or Brenden Morrow (5'11" 210lb)?

I was gonna put it in bold text, but I figured you'd get it anyway.

Regarding your question, you already know the answer and further I'll let you know that I'll take Doan (6'2" 216 lb) over Morrow. Don't be stupid, since when is size irrelevant? Virtually every NHL scout is looking for "the complete package".

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Gionta can score goals. We just lose 40 goals to NY. You got a plan to replace that?

Mike LeClerc is an injury-prone, suspect-skating winger who has never reached top line potential. He will not be able to keep up on the top line. Why the heck do we need him?!

You have one thing and one thing on your mind only, and that's size. If you can't realize what Gionta brings to the table, this discussion is futile.

Did I for a second not acknowledge that Gionta can score goals? I'm simply convinced a potential 20 goal scorer will be enough. Others will step up.

I agree on everything you said about LeClerc, except I think he can come at a reasonable price and score some goals for this team. Not necessarily on the top line, but that'll work out. It was just an example of another possible route; sign him. Wait and see. I did not once compare the two.

That may very well be. It's the most urgent of all needs in my opinion. Let me guess; goals, speed and some grit right? Sorry, I'm not interested right now. What's so hard to realize about that? You may advocate Gionta all you want, I choose not to.

[norrisnick 1]

I was gonna put it in bold text, but I figured you'd get it anyway.

Regarding your question, you already know the answer and further I'll let you know that I'll take Doan (6'2" 216 lb) over Morrow. Don't be stupid, since when is size irrelevant? Virtually every NHL scout is looking for "the complete package".

I'd still take Morrow.

Size is irrelevant. What you do with what you have is what's important. Scouts have been burned left and right drafting big bodies that can't play a lick of hockey.

Need a further example? Iginla spent the offseason dropping 10lbs of muscle mass to get lighter and more mobile.

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

I agree on everything you said about LeClerc, except I think he can come at a reasonable price and score some goals for this team. Not necessarily on the top line, but that'll work out. It was just an example of another possible route; sign him. Wait and see. I did not once compare the two.

The only problem with that theory is, we don't need players for the third and fourth line, we have plenty of those. We need top-2 line players, wingers to be exact, and LeClerc ain't it, even if he plays for free. Gionta is it.

There is not one player out on the market right now who has size and who can be a top-2 line winger. And if you sign these bottom-2 line players, it bumps up our current 3rd and 4th liners like Draper on scoring lines, where guys like him are useless. So it's the same cycle as last year once again. I prefer the team not repeat that mishap.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

I'd still take Morrow.

Size is irrelevant. What you do with what you have is what's important. Scouts have been burned left and right drafting big bodies that can't play a lick of hockey.

Need a further example? Iginla spent the offseason dropping 10lbs of muscle mass to get lighter and more mobile.

Even though I think I proved it's not in my previous post (scouts may have been burned but it doesn't mean they're not looking still. The complete package as we all know CAN play hockey), let's play your game. How about Ovechkin or Gionta? They both scored in bunches last season. Are you gonna tell me size is irrelevant again?

Now what kind of an example is this? Iginla is 6'1" 208 lb. So he needed to lose some weight? That's not exactly the same thing.

The only problem with that theory is, we don't need players for the third and fourth line, we have plenty of those. We need top-2 line players, wingers to be exact, and LeClerc ain't it, even if he plays for free. Gionta is it.

There is not one player out on the market right now who has size and who can be a top-2 line winger. And if you sign these bottom-2 line players, it bumps up our current 3rd and 4th liners like Draper on scoring lines, where guys like him are useless. So it's the same cycle as last year once again. I prefer the team not repeat that mishap.

The Red Wings usually roll all four lines. LeClerc could fit on a "second line" in such a system. I've said it already, I'd try him out, then wait and see what happens as the season progress. Daze could be a cheap option as well. Gionta certainly isn't IT for ME. That's how it is.

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

The Red Wings usually roll all four lines. LeClerc could fit on a "second line" in such a system. I've said it already, I'd try him out, then wait and see what happens as the season progress. Daze could be a cheap option as well. Gionta certainly isn't IT for ME. That's how it is.

No, he couldn't. He can't skate well enough to be on the second line. He would be two feet behind Datsyuk when the time comes to receive a pass. Trying him out means paying him money and tying up cap room. So no, not worth it.

Daze. Good Lord. From not playing in 2 and 1/2 years to being ready to play? How's that back of his? And for his size, he has never been a physical player, and if he came to play now, he would be even less based on his injuries. Doesn't fit the bill. Pass on him as well.

[norrisnick 1]

Now what kind of an example is this? Iginla is 6'1" 208 lb. So he needed to lose some weight? That's not exactly the same thing.

Do you honestly belive Iginla needed to lose the 10 lbs? He made a conscious decision that he'd be better off a bit smaller with less power but faster and more agile/mobile. And it's not like he was slow to begin with.

[Mighty Wings 0]

Daze could be a cheap option as well.

I don't know what to say. He is the softest 6'6 player in the history of the game. He is anything but gritty and at times doesn't play hard. I'd even take gionta over the eric daze of 3-4 yrs ago.

[timsummers 0]

There is not one player out on the market right now who has size and who can be a top-2 line winger. And if you sign these bottom-2 line players, it bumps up our current 3rd and 4th liners like Draper on scoring lines, where guys like him are useless. So it's the same cycle as last year once again. I prefer the team not repeat that mishap.

I agree, RyanBarnes wants a guy with Thorntons size and skill, and.....wel.....bootlands playing style. Thats not gonna happen, there isnt anyone in the league that is like that, especially that we can get. We NEED to score goals....thats how you win games, Gionta would help quite a bit with that i am sure.

I think gionta is a wings uni will make up for this terrible offseason...again

[Henkka 0]

^^ RFA. Wants around $3.5M

If we offer 3.9 the devils couid not answer to that offer. And we would lose 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks.

[swedishconnection 36]

im not really buying the fact that that is all Gionta will be going for, a high prospect and a 1st round pick.

if he is, then why the hell not pick him up? weve got the cap space. hudler hasnt made too many friends with the guys running the show with the wings. he has work ethic issues.

holland only wants to sign a guys to one year deals. perfect. hudler is tiny too, and would get pushed around in the big league. Let gionta fill hudler's (not guarenteed, but most likely) slot in the top 6 forwards.

all were saying is that BG would fill hudler's slot for the upcoming year.

+'s .... gionta has played in the NHL, scored shanny-esque numbers, and has playoff experience.

-'s .... give up yet another 1st round pick.

just armchairing it here... id say lets do it. but we all know that with holland managing this 1 ring short of a 3 ring circus he will pick up some obscure former wing again before he gets gionta.

oh and one more match against RB!'s argument. i realize its not exactly the same, but if you are pushing the point of size across the board...

Lebda or Cross?

im out.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Lets not get carried away here guys, sure Gionta had a great year last year. But it was

his first really significant scoring year and this may have had something to do with the

new rules imposed last season. Yes he did explode into the top of the scoring charts, but

then again our Williams had a massive improvement on his points total compared to his

previous years. Many of us are saying we don't want small players, yet here is a guy who

is only 5'7" & 175lb and because he had agreat year, the lets get him brigade are on their

stools about signing him because of his 48 goals. Before that he had scored 37 in 166 games

over 3 years. Thats nothing to crow about, yet one great year and he's some sort of goalscoring

saviour that we are in desperate need for. I don't buy into myself. I feel we have enough talent

waiting to be given a chance that will do just a good a job as Gionta would, and be around longer

too. The cheque book days are over and we need to develop our own prospects and give them a

chance. Who knows what we have until we give them a chance, Zetts drafted at 210 round 7, how

many of you said , who the hell is he? Yet here we are saying he is untradeable and our future Cpt.

I'm positive that if either Filppulla or Hudler are given a run in the side that they'll be in the 40-50 point

catagory within a couple of years and that will improve over the years. I'll stand back while i get shot

down, but we can't keep giving our picks and prospects away for a quick fix solution.

[swedishconnection 36]

i like your argument, but i really am trying to look at the whole picture, too.

this year is a band-aid year. the hasek pickup proved that. next year 3/4 of our team will be FA. NEXT YEAR will be the one to watch in terms of the offseason. So why not pick up a decent guy during a year that we could use a little extra oomph with goals? even if he is here for only a year, who cares? its not like we can carry over our extra cap space to next year (unless im mistaken).

i would also be fine with using the roster we have now and picking up a good, right hand shot powerforward later in the season. thats coo with me.

either way i dont really care. but who are we going to use the cap space on later anywho? just a rhetorical question, but i sometimes think it may just be better to set the team now and then call it done, but there is some wisdom to be had on sitting on it till later as well.

wishy-washy enough for everyone?