Question for fight fans(personal injuries & such)

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Hey guys, with all the recent posts about fighting and toughness I was just wondering if many of you played much and if you did did you get into many scraps?

I'm curious for a couple of reasons. 1. Not only has fighting died down in the NHL but that's pretty much trickled down to even the beer leagues I play in. I remember when I started out you almost couldn't go a weekend without a line brawl on Saturday or Sunday. Fast forward half a decade and i've been in the same league for 4 years now and other than myself there's only about 5 or 6 guys who've had more than a fight a session out of maybe 30 teams across 3 different skill levels. 2. Has anybody got messed up hands from their not so smarter days? Mine are in pretty bad shape. I don't think its arthritis because my joints don't grind but I have lots of other problems with my hands. If I knock my hand or knuckles even lightly on something or wrap them on a tabletop my hands will puff up. All of the knuckles on my left hand are pointy and crooked and I have some pain when I make a really tight fist. The worst is the puffiness. I was wrestling with my kids the other day when I fell backwards and the back of my hand struck the wall I thought my hand was busted. I barely hit the wall but immediately my left pinky completely locked out on me and the swelling was so bad I couldn't curl my fingers except for my index and middle finger. That was almost 2 1/2 weeks ago and today i'm still having a little trouble typing with my pinky finger (just a little stinging pain if I bend it wrong).

Anyway, I was talking to my wife about it and I boxed a bit in college and took Tae Kwon Do for almost 7 years but we boiled it down to it probably being striking my bare hand on helmets and such. Now that i'm going to be 30 and have kids its sort of worrying me as to what damage I may have done in my teens and twenties.

Just curious if anyone is going thru anything similar. If not what about back injuries or knees or shoudlers? My knees aren't exactly tip top but probably no worse than most people who've played 15-20 years.

[i_like_cheese_2001 0]

I remember reading a story about either Probie or Kocur, and the reporter said that the skin by their knuckles felt callussed because of all the scar tissue that has built up, but I don't think I've heard much about pain... is it possible you might've broken/fractured your hand and just though it was a minor problem so it never quite healed correctly?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I remember reading a story about either Probie or Kocur, and the reporter said that the skin by their knuckles felt callussed because of all the scar tissue that has built up, but I don't think I've heard much about pain... is it possible you might've broken/fractured your hand and just though it was a minor problem so it never quite healed correctly?

It's possible at some point I broke something. I have alot of scarring on the surface of my left hand where its been opened up by helmets or teeth or whatever but I don't know about what's going on underneath. I'm going to have a real all-out physical this year since i'm hitting the whopping 30 mark so i'm going to bring it up with my new doctor and maybe get a referral to a hand specialist or something to see if there's something bad I should be expecting on the horizon.

Speaking of Kocur, there's an old clip of him with the Wings when he was fighting almost every night. Anyway, he had damaged his right hand pretty bad at the time so he wasn't fighting a whole lot. I think I even saw him fight one guy without taking off his right glove and just punched the guy with his glove on to protect the hand. Back to the video clip though, I don't remember who he fought but after some prodding Joey decides to go and he wins the fight I believe but when the players fall to the ice the camera pans in on Joey's right hand and you can see the knuckles on the top of his hand are just gashed open and bleeding. I've actually had that happen to me where all the knuckles on my top hand were open and bleeding except for my pinky and let me tell you the blood is nothing. It doesn't really bleed a whole lot right there but the pain is agonizing because for a little while your hand is so swollen and tight you can't move your fingers very much so you have no idea if you have cracked something or broken a knuckle or what you just know that you don't want to move your hand very much.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Actually, I remember the story being that Kocur's hands were in so bad shape that he almost had to amputate one of them.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

To be completely honest with you, I was the 1st line Center on my team, so I was that pansy that my teammates had to take care of. As a result of my position on the team, I only got in a couple fights my entire playing career. That being said, the enforcers on my teams used to talk about sore hands and what not, but not once the season was over.

It sounds to me like one of two things: (1) You broke a bone/bones in your hand, and didn't recognize it. Now as a result, the bone never healed correctly, or (2) you chipped a bone in your hand, and its still floating around in there. Do you ever feel something inside your hand that moves around? That could be something to look into.

Edit: Spelling

Edited February 7, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Actually, I remember the story being that Kocur's hands were in so bad shape that he almost had to amputate one of them.

I met Kocur at a Wings practice in the late 80s, and his right hand already had a massive amount of scar tissue over the knuckles. I can only imagine what it looks like now.

[wingslogo19 281]

yeah when i played hockey i always got scars on my knuckles, but lucky enough i never broke my hand, well that i knew of

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

To be completely honest with you, I was the 1st line Center on my team, so I was that pansy that my teammates had to take care of. As a result of my position on the team, I only got in a couple fights my entire playing career. That being said, the enforcers on my teams used to talk about sore hands and what not, but not once the season was over.

It sounds to me like one of two things: (1) You broke a bone/bones in your hand, and didn't recognize it. Now as a result, the bone never healed correctly, or (2) you chipped a bone in your hand, and its still floating around in there. Do you ever feel something inside your hand that moves around? That could be something to look into.

Edit: Spelling

I'm fairly certain that I probably broke or cracked some knuckles along the way. My left index finger is the ugliest. Not the top knuckle but the one in the middle (sorry, i'm not a doctor) actually doesn't sit on the top of my finger, its pushed inward towards the middle finger and has a sharp point under the skin. If you hold your finger out straight and look at it from the side it ought to be relatively flat along the top with a noticeable hump at the knuckle. You look at mine and the knuckle looks like a tent jutting out, its not exactly a thing of beauty. So that one i'm pretty sure broke at some point and this is the way it healed.

As for you being the "pansy" 1st line center. I think in retrospect that would've been alot more fun than being the shot blocking, undersized ******* who racked up more PIM's in one game than I had points in an entire season one year.

Although I don't have any great stories about awesome goals I scored I do have some nice memories of fun scraps I was involved in.

For instance, I actually had the dubious distinction of being the only person in my 4 years of college to be kicked out and banned from participating in intramural broomball. HA! It wasn't my fault though b/c I kept getting slashed by this guy and the ref had no idea how to police the game and probably no clue what a slash was so I took it upon myself to kick his ass. I probably should've known I should not have participated when I showed up and everybody was drunk and having a good time and I had on my short-cuffed, Easton hockey gloves on.

Another was when I got married and my wife came to one of our games (1st time she'd ever seen a hockey game) I got tossed out (in the 2nd period I think ) because this ******* drilled from behind my d partner who got stuck out on the ice ice too long and he fractured his arm slamming into the boards funny. There was no call and by the time he got up and got to the bench in obvious agony I lost it. I jumped over the boards when I wasn't even up and the guy was skating to his bench, I two-handed him right at the knees and when he got over the stun effect I dropped and hit him with a wicked left straight in the mush and that was it. I got tossed obviously but afterwards when I was getting ready to leave people were coming up to me and thanking me for doing something and my wife is just sitting there like "are you people freaking crazy or something, he hit somebody". I tried to explain to her that that's hockey and s*** happens. She just looked pissed and has never gone to another game since. That was almost 6 years ago.

Still, it would've been nice to have scored a hat trick at some point. I got 2 goals in an inline game once but that was like the highlight of my productive abilities.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

As for you being the "pansy" 1st line center. I think in retrospect that would've been alot more fun than being the shot blocking, undersized ******* who racked up more PIM's in one game than I had points in an entire season one year.

Although I don't have any great stories about awesome goals I scored I do have some nice memories of fun scraps I was involved in.

I've blocked plenty of shots in my time. I was also one of the point penalty killers. When the Schneiders of our league took the line and shot on a PP, it was me that went down to block it. I've got plenty of black and blue memories of that.

Good stuff, though! No complaints from me.

Still, it would've been nice to have scored a hat trick at some point. I got 2 goals in an inline game once but that was like the highlight of my productive abilities.

I'll never forget my last season. It was by far my most productive, and the most memorable. We finished the season 26-1-1. Our only loss came to the second place team in our league (which ironically enough we had already beaten twice, and we went on to beat them 2-0 in the finals). I mustered 6 hat tricks that season and finished with 37 goals. That was the best season I've ever had, and I'll never forget any of the faces that were in that locker room with me.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I've blocked plenty of shots in my time. I was also one of the point penalty killers. When the Schneiders of our league took the line and shot on a PP, it was me that went down to block it. I've got plenty of black and blue memories of that.

Good stuff, though! No complaints from me.

I'll never forget my last season. It was by far my most productive, and the most memorable. We finished the season 26-1-1. Our only loss came to the second place team in our league (which ironically enough we had already beaten twice, and we went on to beat them 2-0 in the finals). I mustered 6 hat tricks that season and finished with 37 goals. That was the best season I've ever had, and I'll never forget any of the faces that were in that locker room with me.

37 Goals to me seems like 800.

If I count from the day I really started to know the game of hockey and think I could play it well, probably 16 or so, in the decade + that followed, playing every year, dozens and dozens of games I think I have roughly 20 or so goals in probably 300 games. I probably had 3x as many fights as I had goals. I did ring up my fair share of assists. It helped that I was on the top pairing on every team I played on. That was mostly due to my ability to keep the puck out and keep my slow ass back while my partners would join the play and do all the puck carrying. Looking back on it now i'd liken myself to somebody like a Jason Smith or Steve Staois type. Although about 3 inches shorter and about 75 skill levels lower

[The Enforcer 13]

I've gotten in a few scraps in my time, and the worst pain is breaking or fracturing fingers. I got into one where I swung at a guy, he dropped down to avoid it, I slipped on the ice a little, and fractured my thumb . It hurt like hell for about a week and a half, still have the bump. Got into a bar brawl a while back (1999) and busted my index finger and impaled my knuckes on a dudes teeth. Had to go to ER and they had to pull them out...that hurt worse...much worse. Bled everywhere, tetnus shot, swelled up so bad they couldn't move for a month. My one knuckle still is screwed up from that. Another time I got my hand stuck on a helmet cage and sprained my wrist so bad they wanted to operate on the ligaments. Fighting isn't much fun anymore because of the ER bills and wrecking your body parts.

[Zetter is Better 0]

Wow, I would hate to be an NHL fighter. Sure everyone cheers for you but first of all you get your face busted up pretty bad, but your knuckles get busted worse and you have to live with the scar tissue for a long time......

[Hank 0]

Wow, I would hate to be an NHL fighter. Sure everyone cheers for you but first of all you get your face busted up pretty bad, but your knuckles get busted worse and you have to live with the scar tissue for a long time......

I think the biggest reason I don't see that many fights in beer leagues anymore is because less and less guys are drinking before games. It used to be that you'd have at least 2 cases on the actual bench during the game. That's basically gone now. And now that you've taken the liquid courage away from these guys they don't fight anymore.

I'm interested to know what level of hockey the leagues you play in are.

I play in a competitive league where the average player is probably a lifetime Travel to Junior C talent. I've only seen a handful of fights in this league over the past few years. Most of the guys understand we all need to work in the morning and it's about fun, not reliving past glory or acting like it's the NHL we're playing in.

[Zetter is Better 0]

Most of the guys understand we all need to work in the morning and it's about fun, not reliving past glory or acting like it's the NHL we're playing in.

Yeah, I play Midget C and everyone in C knows we`re not going to make the NHL, yet some kids take it so serious its rediculous. People think they are big NHL tough guys in my league. I just play for the fun of hockey (and to score goals............... and win).

[The Enforcer 13]

Hockey fighting: best left to the paid professionals.

[arnoldbuck 0]

Hockey fighting: best left to the paid professionals.

Haha, have to agree. I just sit and laugh when I see some guys in a beer league who still act like they are going to the show. Doesn't matter what level you play at its ok to play with emotion, but come one, you have to get up in the morning to go deliver the mail, stop dropping the gloves. Haha.

Okay, I suppose there is a rare instense where I can see it happening, but ... those are rare.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I've gotten in a few scraps in my time, and the worst pain is breaking or fracturing fingers. I got into one where I swung at a guy, he dropped down to avoid it, I slipped on the ice a little, and fractured my thumb . It hurt like hell for about a week and a half, still have the bump. Got into a bar brawl a while back (1999) and busted my index finger and impaled my knuckes on a dudes teeth. Had to go to ER and they had to pull them out...that hurt worse...much worse. Bled everywhere, tetnus shot, swelled up so bad they couldn't move for a month. My one knuckle still is screwed up from that. Another time I got my hand stuck on a helmet cage and sprained my wrist so bad they wanted to operate on the ligaments. Fighting isn't much fun anymore because of the ER bills and wrecking your body parts.

Yeah, the ER blows, too expensive even with health care. Last time I went was for stitches to my bottom lip. I saw a guy with his head down, went to step up on him and as he was coming in he lost an edge and instead of hitting him clean he caught me low and I ended up smacking my face on his helmet and that opened me up for 9 stitches. No face shields for me, mom.

I think the biggest reason I don't see that many fights in beer leagues anymore is because less and less guys are drinking before games. It used to be that you'd have at least 2 cases on the actual bench during the game. That's basically gone now. And now that you've taken the liquid courage away from these guys they don't fight anymore.

I'm interested to know what level of hockey the leagues you play in are.

I play in a competitive league where the average player is probably a lifetime Travel to Junior C talent. I've only seen a handful of fights in this league over the past few years. Most of the guys understand we all need to work in the morning and it's about fun, not reliving past glory or acting like it's the NHL we're playing in.

Most of the guys in my league are former high school, traveling players. A couple of guys played club hockey at the collegiate level and maybe there are just a handful that may have played D1 at Bowling Green or Miami. Nowadays, seems the best little f***ers are all 17-18, pimple-faced high schoolers who play inline as well so they can play/travel year round. It's worse in inline though than it is in ice. Ice leagues where i'm from tend to be more older guys who attained legal drinking age in the 90's. Its inline where the little punks really piss you off. They come in all wearing full cages and acting like a bunch of little s***s and since they've played all year together they basically destroy you and you try your best not to look like a complete dips*** while they run you all over the place and run the score up on you. I hate those little bastards.

[Hank 0]

Yeah, the ER blows, too expensive even with health care. Last time I went was for stitches to my bottom lip. I saw a guy with his head down, went to step up on him and as he was coming in he lost an edge and instead of hitting him clean he caught me low and I ended up smacking my face on his helmet and that opened me up for 9 stitches. No face shields for me, mom.

Most of the guys in my league are former high school, traveling players. A couple of guys played club hockey at the collegiate level and maybe there are just a handful that may have played D1 at Bowling Green or Miami. Nowadays, seems the best little f***ers are all 17-18, pimple-faced high schoolers who play inline as well so they can play/travel year round. It's worse in inline though than it is in ice. Ice leagues where i'm from tend to be more older guys who attained legal drinking age in the 90's. Its inline where the little punks really piss you off. They come in all wearing full cages and acting like a bunch of little s***s and since they've played all year together they basically destroy you and you try your best not to look like a complete dips*** while they run you all over the place and run the score up on you. I hate those little bastards.

Hahahaha! You sound pretty upset about those little bastards.

I played in a tourny last year where a number of teams in our divsion had full custom uni's complete with original logo and names on the back. Talk about taking it a bit seriously. What was embrassing for them was that we were in a 20+ division despite having an average age of 32. And most of the guys on our team only played house league hockey and yet we were able to beat them. Our defense was especially old but very, very good. One guy is in his 40's and I swear he could outskate most Junior Tier II players today.

Anyway, one guy on their team was 4 months removed from his OHL career. He was an extremely high draft pick in the OHL and yet he didn't stand out in the least out there. Or at least to the degree that his level of playing should have dictated. It was so bad that our 40+ Dman said to him during the handshakes "You should be embarassed". Turns out the two kind of knew each other but he was right. For the level that this kid played, playing agianst a bunch of houseleaguers 10 years his seniors he should have dominated.

[Inultus 12]

Good story, I'm going to start a thread on a related topic.

For my part I'm generally one of the bigger guys on the team and, being a bouncer, I'm not stranger to using physical force.

I've been in a few scrums, not too many. Whoever said earlier that it's the beer that causes most of the fights is right.

When I played for a sponsored team a couple of years ago it seems like everyone drank before, during and after the game. They got in a ton of fights, but somehow we won the whole thing.

Honestly, most of the time people would back down from me because they would shove me and I wouldn't move or respond, I would just look at them like "is that all you have?". Silence works wonders.

One dude though got the best of me. We had a player (Kevin) on our team who was brand new to hockey and he could not skate well. This punk on the other team kept pushing him down for no good reason (Kevin wasn't in any position to make a play), so I took offense.

The next time this dude had the puck he came rushing down ice and I positioned myself to get in his way and I put my stick out to get the puck and trip him at the same time. He fell but still had the puck so he kept going but after the play was broken up he got in my face and said I tripped him and just said, yeah, how's it feel?

He shoved me hard and knocked me down and I jumped right back up with my fist cocked but the refs jumped in. Too bad, I wanted to lay him out.

[The Enforcer 13]

Good story, I'm going to start a thread on a related topic.

For my part I'm generally one of the bigger guys on the team and, being a bouncer, I'm not stranger to using physical force.

I've been in a few scrums, not too many. Whoever said earlier that it's the beer that causes most of the fights is right.

When I played for a sponsored team a couple of years ago it seems like everyone drank before, during and after the game. They got in a ton of fights, but somehow we won the whole thing.

Honestly, most of the time people would back down from me because they would shove me and I wouldn't move or respond, I would just look at them like "is that all you have?". Silence works wonders.

One dude though got the best of me. We had a player (Kevin) on our team who was brand new to hockey and he could not skate well. This punk on the other team kept pushing him down for no good reason (Kevin wasn't in any position to make a play), so I took offense.

The next time this dude had the puck he came rushing down ice and I positioned myself to get in his way and I put my stick out to get the puck and trip him at the same time. He fell but still had the puck so he kept going but after the play was broken up he got in my face and said I tripped him and just said, yeah, how's it feel?

He shoved me hard and knocked me down and I jumped right back up with my fist cocked but the refs jumped in. Too bad, I wanted to lay him out.

[/quote

Heh, that's what usually starts the melee.