Mark Spizzirri's take on the Wings

[rick zombo 3,739]

From Hockeybuzz: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=5685

Sorry about another "deadline" thread, but this is a different take.

Kronwall's play has begun to slightly improve over the course of the season, however the fact he is only +1 on this team is a concern. Pairing him with a solid defencemen at this stage would solidify this 2nd pairing. In a perfect world for the Wings, their 3rd defensive pairing heading into the playoff would be Chelios and Schneider with Lebda as your 7th man.

I will be stunned if Schneider is resigned in the offseason. He obviously can still produce on the power play and is good at moving the puck, however I have never felt his play to be particularly strong in his own end. He should be relegated to the power play and 3rd defensive pairing. I truly believe this team's downfall could be the fact that their top 4 defensemen don't match up with other teams top 4 defensemen, in particular in the Western Conference with teams such as Anaheim, Calgary and Nashville. In my opinion, it was the play of Edmonton's top 4 D-Men (Pronger, Smith, Staios and Spacek) which did in the Wings in Round 1 last spring over (Lidstrom, Kronwall, Schneider and Chelios). Then again, the play of Dwayne Roloson didn't hurt.

He makes some great points here. Especially about Schneider. I personally really hate the way he plays in his own zone. And I don't think a top six winger will help if there are holes on defence. Remember, defence wins championships.

Since the price for Guerin, etc. seems unrealistic, I wonder if the team doesn't have a better shot at going for a top 3 defenseman like Aaron Miller (who will be a UFA) to play with Kronwall, and then making a pitch for Todd Fedoruk (another UFA) from Philly.

Then pray to god that Samuelson can add some scoring punch to that 2nd line.

Or maybe trade Scneider to TB for Corey Sarich. Both defensemen are UFAs at season's end and The Fourth Period are stating that TB are looking for a mobile, puck moving defensemen.

Z- Dats - Homer

Sammy - Lang - Cleary

Franzen - Draper - Maltby

Hudler - Flip - Fedoruk

Langfeld

Lidstrom - Markov

Miller/Sarich - Kronwall

Chelios - Schneider/Lebda (if Schneider gets traded)

Lilja

Edited February 22, 2007 by rick zombo

[timsummers 0]

I would have no problem trading schneider. If i remember correctly there are a few teams looking for a puck moving defenseman at the deadline. Im sure he could fetch something decent in return. We have lidstrom to play quarterback on the powerplay, and thats all we need. Most teams are starting to take the point shots away as well. id say trade him now and get something for him rather than lose him for good.

Edited February 22, 2007 by timsummers

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

I would be STRONGLY against trading Schneider- the Wings will live or die with their PP in the playoffs, and getting rid of him would be like pulling the plug.

[Vonnie182 0]

hmm

[rick zombo 3,739]

I would be STRONGLY against trading Schneider- the Wings will live or die with their PP in the playoffs, and getting rid of him would be like pulling the plug.

OK. Well then let's say we hang on to Schneider then. He's fine on the PP.

My point, when starting this thread, was to talk about maybe addressing the #3 spot on defense. That maybe we need a defensive defensemen like Miller or Sarich to play on the 2nd pairing (Schneider can play on the 3rd pairing with Chelios) That maybe adding that player, and some grit up front (like one of Fedoruk or Lapointe) might be as viable an option as chasing and overpaying for that 2nd line winger that every team is lining up for.

Edited February 22, 2007 by rick zombo

[GuloGulo 0]

Miller, Rivet, Salvador (well hrrm), etc... there should be guys available.

I Fully agree. Kronwall/Lebda was our best D-pairing last playoffs.

A strong defensive defenseman would be super.

[Hank 0]

Miller, Rivet, Salvador (well hrrm), etc... there should be guys available.

I Fully agree. Kronwall/Lebda was our best D-pairing last playoffs.

A strong defensive defenseman would be super.

Defense is not our problem. It wasn't our problem in 03, 04 and 06. It's our offense that sucks. Why? Because Datsyuk can't score in the playoffs. Even now, if you contain Zetterberg, you contain the Wings. Last nights game was a perfect example. It was a boring game that either team could have won until the 3rd period. Zetts heated it up and won that game for Detroit.

What do you think's going to happen in the playoffs? Teams will know that they only have to worry about Z. They know that if they check him closely not one other person on that team will bury them. Everyone's fully aware that Dats won't go into the danger zones and even if he did he's certainly not going to shoot. So take away his main target.

The 2nd line is a joke. Cleary's come back to earth, Williams is playing like a 2nd line AHL winger and their 3rd line is made up of hard working checkers with 0 hands.

The makeup of this team is that we'll lose in the 1st round within 5 to 6 games. In the games we win it'll be because our 3rd and 4th lines got some good bounces and scored some winning goals on route to a 3-2 or 2-1 victory. Our losses will be one goal games where we probably won't score over 2 goals in any of them.

Unless Holland gives Lang a real scoring winger to play with this team has as good a shot of winning the Cup as Philly. And I know that's funny to say considering we're in the running for the President's Trophy again. But if you're a Wings fan, and certainly if you're an NHL fan you know that the regular season means absolutely diddly. How many times did we see the Wings dominate from October to April in the late 80's and early 90's? And how many Cups did we win? 0.

This team needs more scoring and more grit. We've actually needed it the past 2 trade deadlines and here we are again asking for it a 3rd deadline in a row. When is Holland going to finally wake up and address what everyone knows this team needs?

Does he really think that Sammy and Williams are going to turn into 25 goal scorers when the playoffs open up? What makes him think that Datsyuk will finally sack up and play like he thinks he's worth?

This team needs at least 2 good gritty wingers with scoring touch to compete. If Guerin costs us a 1st and Meech (or another dman prospect) then do it. And then try to swing a deal for a 2nd tier winger with some decent hands. People laugh but Marty Lapointe fills this need. He sucks in the regular season but this guy scored a number of goals in the spring. He could do it again. Heck, even getting a Geoff Sanderson might be the kind of guy we need on the 2nd or 3rd line.

Dats-Zetts-Homer

Cleary-Lang-Guerin

Sanderson-Drapes-Maltby

Franzen-Flip-Sammy

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I would have no problem trading schneider. If i remember correctly there are a few teams looking for a puck moving defenseman at the deadline. Im sure he could fetch something decent in return. We have lidstrom to play quarterback on the powerplay, and thats all we need. Most teams are starting to take the point shots away as well. id say trade him now and get something for him rather than lose him for good.

Nick doesn't have the power shot that Schneider brings to the PP. When there's only 4 men on the ice, they don't have much of a choice whether or not to take away the point. That's up to the Wings to distrubute the puck and force them to move around. Nick is already vidal to our powerplay, why swtich him

OK. Well then let's say we hang on to Schneider then. He's fine on the PP.

My point, when starting this thread, was to talk about maybe addressing the #3 spot on defense. That maybe we need a defensive defensemen like Miller or Sarich to play on the 2nd pairing (Schneider can play on the 3rd pairing with Chelios) That maybe adding that player, and some grit up front (like one of Fedoruk or Lapointe) might be as viable an option as chasing and overpaying for that 2nd line winger that every team is lining up for.

Why do you think Scneider is so bad? Playing on the 3rd line... He's getting up in age, but the guy is still producing

[rick zombo 3,739]

Defense is not our problem. It wasn't our problem in 03, 04 and 06. It's our offense that sucks. Why? Because Datsyuk can't score in the playoffs. Even now, if you contain Zetterberg, you contain the Wings. Last nights game was a perfect example. It was a boring game that either team could have won until the 3rd period. Zetts heated it up and won that game for Detroit.

What do you think's going to happen in the playoffs? Teams will know that they only have to worry about Z. They know that if they check him closely not one other person on that team will bury them. Everyone's fully aware that Dats won't go into the danger zones and even if he did he's certainly not going to shoot. So take away his main target.

The 2nd line is a joke. Cleary's come back to earth, Williams is playing like a 2nd line AHL winger and their 3rd line is made up of hard working checkers with 0 hands.

The makeup of this team is that we'll lose in the 1st round within 5 to 6 games. In the games we win it'll be because our 3rd and 4th lines got some good bounces and scored some winning goals on route to a 3-2 or 2-1 victory. Our losses will be one goal games where we probably won't score over 2 goals in any of them.

Unless Holland gives Lang a real scoring winger to play with this team has as good a shot of winning the Cup as Philly. And I know that's funny to say considering we're in the running for the President's Trophy again. But if you're a Wings fan, and certainly if you're an NHL fan you know that the regular season means absolutely diddly. How many times did we see the Wings dominate from October to April in the late 80's and early 90's? And how many Cups did we win? 0.

This team needs more scoring and more grit. We've actually needed it the past 2 trade deadlines and here we are again asking for it a 3rd deadline in a row. When is Holland going to finally wake up and address what everyone knows this team needs?

Does he really think that Sammy and Williams are going to turn into 25 goal scorers when the playoffs open up? What makes him think that Datsyuk will finally sack up and play like he thinks he's worth?

This team needs at least 2 good gritty wingers with scoring touch to compete. If Guerin costs us a 1st and Meech (or another dman prospect) then do it. And then try to swing a deal for a 2nd tier winger with some decent hands. People laugh but Marty Lapointe fills this need. He sucks in the regular season but this guy scored a number of goals in the spring. He could do it again. Heck, even getting a Geoff Sanderson might be the kind of guy we need on the 2nd or 3rd line.

Dats-Zetts-Homer

Cleary-Lang-Guerin

Sanderson-Drapes-Maltby

Franzen-Flip-Sammy

Good points.

Decent looking lines. Maybe Holland can get really creative and bolster the defense too. Kenny has alot of work to do between now and Tuesday.

Nick doesn't have the power shot that Schneider brings to the PP. When there's only 4 men on the ice, they don't have much of a choice whether or not to take away the point. That's up to the Wings to distrubute the puck and force them to move around. Nick is already vidal to our powerplay, why swtich him

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

Why do you think Scneider is so bad? Playing on the 3rd line... He's getting up in age, but the guy is still producing

I just think Schneider is a defensive liability. Especially playing with Kronwall. I'm just echoing Spizzirri's comments here. I'd feel better having a more reliable defensive defensemen to compliment Kronwall on the 2nd pairing.

Edited February 22, 2007 by rick zombo

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Sorry if I was confusing, i'll try to explain a little better. All I meant is that you stated earlier that you wanted to make Lidstrom takeover Schneider's duties on the PP. What I meant to say is Nick already playing a vital role as the other defensemen on the PP. To move him to Schneider role could easily disrupt our PP, especially with Matt having the better shot. Also, you said teams are taking away the point shot on PP (Matt's best spot to shot). I think that's up to our guys to keep passing on the PP and make their 4 move around as much as possible, so that we can still get that shot on point. Idk if that helps, if not, i give up

"I just think Schneider is a defensive liability. Especially playing with Kronwall. I'm just echoing Spizzirri's comments here. I'd feel better having a more reliable defensive defensemen to compliment Kronwall on the 2nd pairing."

Kronwall hasn't played well this year and has shown little improvement. You talk about Schneider being unreliable, but since mid December when Kronwall came back, he hasn't really done much

Edited February 22, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[rick zombo 3,739]

Sorry if I was confusing, i'll try to explain a little better. All I meant is that you stated earlier that you wanted to make Lidstrom takeover Schneider's duties on the PP. What I meant to say is Nick already playing a vital role as the other defensemen on the PP. To move him to Schneider role could easily disrupt our PP, especially with Matt having the better shot. Also, you said teams are taking away the point shot on PP (Matt's best spot to shot). I think that's up to our guys to keep passing on the PP and make their 4 move around as much as possible, so that we can still get that shot on point. Idk if that helps, if not, i give up

Yes, this makes sense. And I agree. Schneider for sure helps on the PP.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Yes, this makes sense. And I agree. Schneider for sure helps on the PP.

Oh well, but to be honest... I'm sure most of us we'd be happy to see any sort of deal. If it takes Matt, I wouldn't like it personally, but at least its something

[Hank 0]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

I just think Schneider is a defensive liability. Especially playing with Kronwall. I'm just echoing Spizzirri's comments here. I'd feel better having a more reliable defensive defensemen to compliment Kronwall on the 2nd pairing.

Me neither. Lidstrom has a great powershot from the point and is a master at keeping the puck low for tips and rebounds.

I like the idea of a good stay at home dman. I wonder if those rumours about Hatcher are true? And Aaron Miller would be incredible. Not only is he tough as nails in his own end he's also a right handed dman. A combo the Wings haven't had since Vladdy.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Me neither. Lidstrom has a great powershot from the point and is a master at keeping the puck low for tips and rebounds.

I like the idea of a good stay at home dman. I wonder if those rumours about Hatcher are true? And Aaron Miller would be incredible. Not only is he tough as nails in his own end he's also a right handed dman. A combo the Wings haven't had since Vladdy.

I can see what you mean with a stay at home, but isn't Chelios that kind of player? Schneider has +10, so he can't be making that many mistakes that hurt us. He has 38 points (9 goals) in 48 games. I just think you guys are being too hard on him. Also, if Lidstrom shot is as powerful as you say, why wouldn't Matt and him just be keying off the points on the PP. I kinda hope we trade Matt, to prove that he was needed here

Edited February 22, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[Guest Crymson]

From Hockeybuzz: I truly believe this team's downfall could be the fact that their top 4 defensemen don't match up with other teams top 4 defensemen, in particular in the Western Conference with teams such as Anaheim, Calgary and Nashville. In my opinion, it was the play of Edmonton's top 4 D-Men (Pronger, Smith, Staios and Spacek) which did in the Wings in Round 1 last spring over (Lidstrom, Kronwall, Schneider and Chelios). Then again, the play of Dwayne Roloson didn't hurt.

Ummmmmm----we have the best defense in the league.

EDIT: At the moment, Kronwall sucks ass.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Crymson

[rick zombo 3,739]

Ummmmmm----we have the best defense in the league. In the regular season

Fixed

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Ummmmmm----we have the best defense in the league.

EDIT: At the moment, Kronwall sucks ass.

thank you

[Guest Crymson]

Fixed

You can see into the future? Will we win the Stanley Cup?

Gimme a break.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Crymson

[rick zombo 3,739]

You can see into the future? Will we win the Stanley Cup?

Gimme a break.

You can see into the future?

You think Detroit's defense was better than Edmonton's in last year's playoff series. Or Calgary's the year before?

You think it's better than Anaheim's this year. Or Calgary's?

Give me a break.

[norrisnick 1]

Pair Nick with Nik and put Markov with Schneider.

[hockeyfanatic 0]

Er...the top 4 in last years playoffs wasn't even as he said (Lidstrom, Kronwall, Schneider, Chelios), was it? I seem to remember Lilja being in the top pairing and Chelios in the 3rd pairing. Markov in place of Lilja alone would make the defense better than last year's playoffs. Yes, Calgary and Anaheim probably have a better top-4 than us. Guess what? They have a better top-4 than 27 other teams, too. This guy is crazy if he thinks we need to acquire another top-4 defensemen before the deadline. With what is likely one of the top-3 defense corps in the league, our need for a top-6 winger is much great at the moment.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

You can see into the future?

You think Detroit's defense was better than Edmonton's in last year's playoff series. Or Calgary's the year before?

You think it's better than Anaheim's this year. Or Calgary's?

Give me a break.

Things change in a year. All you have to do is look at Edmonton this year to last. Stanley cup finals last year - a team that wont make the playoffs and could be having a firesale. Also, we have less goals against than either of the teams. I know Dom has played great this year, but the defense had a lot to say about that too

Edited February 22, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[sibiriak 84]

... It's our offense that sucks. Why? Because Datsyuk can't score in the playoffs. Even now, if you contain Zetterberg, you contain the Wings. Last nights game was a perfect example. It was a boring game that either team could have won until the 3rd period. Zetts heated it up and won that game for Detroit....

I wonder if I saw the same game as you did. I thought that the Datsyuk's SH breakaway goal was the turning point, and the GW was scored by Zetterberg from a very nice pass from Datsyuk. And Datsyuk was named the 1st star very deservedly.

Pavel may or may not score a lot in the next playoffs, but this Wednesdey's game was not a good example of him sucking and Zetterberg having to carry the team.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Pair Nick with Nik and put Markov with Schneider.

Yes.

Er...the top 4 in last years playoffs wasn't even as he said (Lidstrom, Kronwall, Schneider, Chelios), was it? I seem to remember Lilja being in the top pairing and Chelios in the 3rd pairing. Markov in place of Lilja alone would make the defense better than last year's playoffs. Yes, Calgary and Anaheim probably have a better top-4 than us. Guess what? They have a better top-4 than 27 other teams, too. This guy is crazy if he thinks we need to acquire another top-4 defensemen before the deadline. With what is likely one of the top-3 defense corps in the league, our need for a top-6 winger is much great at the moment.

Yes, good points.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Pair Nick with Nik and put Markov with Schneider.

Do you believe that Kronwall the way he has played, deserves the 1st defensive pairing?