Steve Moore interview

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

How? I don't have to respect the guy to want to see him do well on the Wings. I never said I enjoyed having him on the team, but since he is, I'm not going to hope the guy does poorly.

Bertuzzi/Moore

McCarty/Lemieux

Each act was a sucker punch

Each act was premeditated

Each act resulted in injuries to the victim

You can control what you do. You can choose to cheap shot somebody or not to. What you cannot do is predict the outcome of your actions. That being said, you ought not to have respect for Darren McCarty either. If you do, then you are being a hypocrite.

PS: For those who defend Mac (which I have no beef with, just don't vilify Bertuzzi for doing the same thing) if you watch that video, you see that McCarty punches Lemieux in almost the exact same spot that Bertuzzi punches Moore, which is the right side of the face. If you were to take a snapshot of each punch, they are pretty much identical. In fact, McCarty comes more from Lemieux right side than he does face to face as some would like us to believe. Lemieux is actually facing the boards on his way off the ice and Darren is coming at him from an angle and not head on.

Also, like Moore, Lemieux drops to the ground awkwardly with McCarty's hands up around his back/neck area. Whereas Bert landed on Moore, McCarty did not but he then jumped on top of Lemeiux as he was down. McCarty's actually strikes Lemieux in the back of the neck/helmet with his left hand prior to trying to rip off his helmet.

My point in all this is that these 2 incidents are freakishly similar. The perpetrator in each did almost the exact same thing to the exact same location of the victim with nearly the exact same results with the victim falling helplessly to the ice and striking their head. Moore's broken neck is about the only difference. A big difference I know. But not on how it impacts the actual acts that were committed.

If you love what McCarty did and you just think it was the greatest (as I do) yet you think Bertuzzi is a scumbag, should be ousted from the league and you can't see yourself respecting the guy. Then you are 2 things. A certified homer and a hypocrite.

peace out.

[JayUp88 1]

So what would happen if Mac broke Clauds neck while he was beating him while he was on the ground. We all love to see that because nothing bad happend but what it he broke his neck. How would we look at Mac....... just throwing that around

So what would happen if Mac broke Clauds neck while he was beating him while he was on the ground. We all love to see that because nothing bad happend but what it he broke his neck. How would we look at Mac....... just throwing that around

never mind he beat me too it lol

[Wingsfan31 0]

G&S&T,

It also appears that Mac tried to throw Lemieux into the boards face first, a la what happened to Draper. In fact, if I recall, he throws Lemieux into the boards in almost exactly the same place Lemieux hit Draper.

I loved the Mac incident and I think it, along with the Wings coming back to win that game, were major reasons the Wings went on to win the Cup that year.

Personally, I like the way Ruff handled the Drury hit, he basically put his tough guys on the ice against the Sens top players, basically playing a ***-for-tat game. At least the Sens players knew it was coming and Ruff did it immediately after the incendent, unlike Crawford, who let the situation stew and then ran his mouth, along with May, about bounties and the like.

[sibiriak 84]

Amen! Everyone acts as though Bertuzzi was thinking, "I'm going to break Moore's neck, ruin his career and my name forever." The sucker punch was stupid and cowardly, to say the least. As I alluded to on another forum, Fedorov basically did the same thing to a Sharks player in the '94 playoffs, jumping on his back and crosschecking him in the back of the neck. He received a mild suspension to start the next season, and that was that. That play could have easily ended with the same result as the Bertuzzi incident, so why didn't everyone vilify Sergei as a cheapshot artist?

The media has nothing to talk about as we are in a bit of a dead period in the NHL -- the trade deadlinehas past and we are still weeks away from the crunch time at the end of year. The fact that this is the anniversary of the incident and Moore is still keeping giving interviews to keep the civil heat on Bert only adds to the situation. I can bet you if Bert and Moore settled the lawsuit already, Morre wouldn't be granting interviews. Look at the Damien Cox story -- Moore gave the interview from his attorney's office, what does that say about his motivations?

If you hit a pedestrian with your car and he walks away, you get a ticket and maybe your licence suspended for several month. You hit them and they die - you are going to prison. If one commits an illegal act, one pays according to the actual damage caused, not his intent. That is why Bertuzzi is so villified.

For me personally, Bertuzzi's crocodile tears afterwards, and dragging his feet in the civil settlement, only reinforce my impression that he is not sorry for what he's done, and his"remorse" was strictly for public consumption. And I am not excited to see an unrepentant (IMO) criminal wear the Wings jersey.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

G&S&T,

It also appears that Mac tried to throw Lemieux into the boards face first, a la what happened to Draper. In fact, if I recall, he throws Lemieux into the boards in almost exactly the same place Lemieux hit Draper.

I loved the Mac incident and I think it, along with the Wings coming back to win that game, were major reasons the Wings went on to win the Cup that year.

Personally, I like the way Ruff handled the Drury hit, he basically put his tough guys on the ice against the Sens top players, basically playing a ***-for-tat game. At least the Sens players knew it was coming and Ruff did it immediately after the incendent, unlike Crawford, who let the situation stew and then ran his mouth, along with May, about bounties and the like.

Fights are great momentum changers and exciting. But I don't think any situation where someone gets pretty seriously hurt is a good thing.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

If you hit a pedestrian with your car and he walks away, you get a ticket and maybe your licence suspended for several month. You hit them and they die - you are going to prison. If one commits an illegal act, one pays according to the actual damage caused, not his intent. That is why Bertuzzi is so villified.

For me personally, Bertuzzi's crocodile tears afterwards, and dragging his feet in the civil settlement, only reinforce my impression that he is not sorry for what he's done, and his"remorse" was strictly for public consumption. And I am not excited to see an unrepentant (IMO) criminal wear the Wings jersey.

well you shouldn't watch hockey period then...its all assult with a deadly weapon

[sibiriak 84]

well you shouldn't watch hockey period then...its all assult with a deadly weapon

What hockey are you watching? How many Bertuzzi-serious attacks happen in a season? Don't act like it's NHL busines as usual, 'cos i tis not.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

What hockey are you watching? How many Bertuzzi-serious attacks happen in a season? Don't act like it's NHL busines as usual, 'cos i tis not.

If you hit a pedestrian with your car and he walks away, you get a ticket and maybe your licence suspended for several month. You hit them and they die - you are going to prison...ok..so you are tellling me that if some dumb jackass walks out in front of my car and gets killed its my fault and im going to prison?

Assault with a Deadly Weapon is the term used to describe the act of threatening to harm one or more people by using a weapon (usually a firearm).

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

this is off subject, but could someone tell me if I have a picture under my name on the left? I thought I had one, but it doesn't show on my cpu that I have one

[drwscc 212]

this is off subject, but could someone tell me if I have a picture under my name on the left? I thought I had one, but it doesn't show on my cpu that I have one

Nosir. I don't see it.

[Wingsfan31 0]

If you hit a pedestrian with your car and he walks away, you get a ticket and maybe your licence suspended for several month. You hit them and they die - you are going to prison. If one commits an illegal act, one pays according to the actual damage caused, not his intent. That is why Bertuzzi is so villified.

For me personally, Bertuzzi's crocodile tears afterwards, and dragging his feet in the civil settlement, only reinforce my impression that he is not sorry for what he's done, and his"remorse" was strictly for public consumption. And I am not excited to see an unrepentant (IMO) criminal wear the Wings jersey.

Were you a fan of Dino? Because he two-handed a Northstars player across the chest and was charged with, and convicted of, assault when he played for the Capitals.

I agree that, in the judicial system, the result is taken into account with the act to determine a punishment. But, in the NHL, the punishment seems to be determined by the result with little regard for the act. Yuo want to know why players don't take care to avoid hits to the head, because in a lot fo cases little-to-nothing is done about it. My major point it, in the context of the NHL, there have been incidents that started as violently as the Moore-Bertuzzi thing. To say more reprehensible of a player because of the result is not fair, IMO. He gets beat up because Moore broke his neck and the NHL decided to make an example of him.

One final thing, who are you to determine who is and isn't repentant? I think it's okay to judge the man by his actions, but to make assumptions about someone's feelings, especially when the appearance runs contrary to that assumption, is irresponsible, IMO. Steve Moore was a career 4th liner and if I was Bert and Moore was trying to get $19 million from me, you're damn right I'd fight it to the bitter end.

[Viperar 16]

What hockey are you watching? How many Bertuzzi-serious attacks happen in a season? Don't act like it's NHL busines as usual, 'cos i tis not.

youre making yourself sound foolish on so many levels...hits happen in hockey all the time, worse ones at that, what about janssen who hit kaberle, should be a criminal, villified for what he did, but no, kaberle will keep playing and janssen get suspended but not nearly as long as bertuzzi...you cant pick and choose, you wanna change the rules about fighting and hits go ahead, but right now as it stands, its part of hockey. Deal with it

One final thing, who are you to determine who is and isn't repentant? I think it's okay to judge the man by his actions, but to make assumptions about someone's feelings, especially when the appearance runs contrary to that assumption, is irresponsible, IMO. Steve Moore was a career 4th liner and if I was Bert and Moore was trying to get $19 million from me, you're damn right I'd fight it to the bitter end.

AMEN!

Apparently he is some ominous presence that can detect and determine emotions by simply looking at someone

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

If you hit a pedestrian with your car and he walks away, you get a ticket and maybe your licence suspended for several month. You hit them and they die - you are going to prison. If one commits an illegal act, one pays according to the actual damage caused, not his intent. That is why Bertuzzi is so villified.

For me personally, Bertuzzi's crocodile tears afterwards, and dragging his feet in the civil settlement, only reinforce my impression that he is not sorry for what he's done, and his"remorse" was strictly for public consumption. And I am not excited to see an unrepentant (IMO) criminal wear the Wings jersey.

So by your standards its okay to sucker punch another player, beat him while he's down and knee him in the face so long as his neck isn't broken.

That's the kind of ass backwards thinking that screws this league up. If the league wants to police itself and take care of its players there ought to be a punishment for sucker punching somebody. The punishment should be based on the act and not on the results of the act.

You are basically holding Bertuzzi accountable for his actions but letting free any player who cheap shots another but doesn't involve serious injury. Like I said, bass akwards.

What hockey are you watching? How many Bertuzzi-serious attacks happen in a season? Don't act like it's NHL busines as usual, 'cos i tis not.

Where was your outrage when Jeff Beukeboom's career was ended by Matt Johnson?

Does it bother you that Tie Domi never served as much time as Bertuzzi even though he deliberately elbowed Scott Niedermayer in the head giving him a concussion and bare-knuckle punched Ulf Samuelsson right in the mouth and knocked him out cold, another concussion. Concussions can be lingering in their effects for years. All this hatred for what Bertuzzi did yet everyone else gets a pass cause there were no broken necks. I think that's funny.

[sibiriak 84]

So by your standards its okay to sucker punch another player, beat him while he's down and knee him in the face so long as his neck isn't broken.

That's the kind of ass backwards thinking that screws this league up. If the league wants to police itself and take care of its players there ought to be a punishment for sucker punching somebody. The punishment should be based on the act and not on the results of the act.

You are basically holding Bertuzzi accountable for his actions but letting free any player who cheap shots another but doesn't involve serious injury. Like I said, bass akwards.

Where was your outrage when Jeff Beukeboom's career was ended by Matt Johnson?

Does it bother you that Tie Domi never served as much time as Bertuzzi even though he deliberately elbowed Scott Niedermayer in the head giving him a concussion and bare-knuckle punched Ulf Samuelsson right in the mouth and knocked him out cold, another concussion. Concussions can be lingering in their effects for years. All this hatred for what Bertuzzi did yet everyone else gets a pass cause there were no broken necks. I think that's funny.

Pray tell, where did I say that other players should go scott-free for blatant illegal acts?

All I did say was that Bertuzzi's act had the most serious consequences, therefore Bertuzzi got the most public scorn. The NHL disciplinary treatment of his offence, BTW, was not out of line with other such offenses.

EDIT-missed spaces.

Edited March 8, 2007 by sibiriak

[Viperar 16]

Pray tell, where did I say that other players should go scott-free for blatant illegal acts?

AllI did say was that Bertuzzi's act had the most serious consequences, therefore Bertuzzi got the most public scorn. The NHL disciplinary treatment of his offence, BTW, was not out of line with other such offenses.

its not bertuzzi's choice what he gets as punishment, the NHL handed out the punishment, he served it without question knowing damn well what he did, if you have a problem with the punishment he served, take it up with the NHL, dont hold a grudge against him

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

what about when hextall broke Turgeon's arm in team canada practice by chopping the heck out of it Turgeon's forearm was fractured and he missed the tournament..what would you call that?

[Elshupacabra 0]

I haven't read this entire thread so excuse me if this has already been brought up but has anyone discussed the fact that there is a possiblilty of Bertuzzi being dragged into court during the playoffs?

[Guest paveldatsukthenextsavard]

bertuzzi let his emotions get the best of him, it was a mistake, he's paying his 19 million price for it, get over it

[sibiriak 84]

Were you a fan of Dino? Because he two-handed a Northstars player across the chest and was charged with, and convicted of, assault when he played for the Capitals.

I agree that, in the judicial system, the result is taken into account with the act to determine a punishment. But, in the NHL, the punishment seems to be determined by the result with little regard for the act. Yuo want to know why players don't take care to avoid hits to the head, because in a lot fo cases little-to-nothing is done about it. My major point it, in the context of the NHL, there have been incidents that started as violently as the Moore-Bertuzzi thing. To say more reprehensible of a player because of the result is not fair, IMO. He gets beat up because Moore broke his neck and the NHL decided to make an example of him.

One final thing, who are you to determine who is and isn't repentant? I think it's okay to judge the man by his actions, but to make assumptions about someone's feelings, especially when the appearance runs contrary to that assumption, is irresponsible, IMO. Steve Moore was a career 4th liner and if I was Bert and Moore was trying to get $19 million from me, you're damn right I'd fight it to the bitter end.

No, I am not a fan of Cicarelli and I always hated his guts.

As I said, fair or not, the damage one causes by his illegal act determines the punishment. And should (IMO).

I said that IMO (in my opinion) Bertuzzi's subsequent behavior indicated to me that his remorse is not deep enough to actually do anything about it, other than cry. If I cripple someone, and deprive them of their ability to pursue their career, and then do my damnedest to avoid paying a dime in compensation, am I really repentant? I don't think so.

If Bertuzzi doesn't think that 19 mil. is fair, go to arbitration, determine what's fair, and pay slightly more, because you are sorry you did it! Not have your lawyers block all Moore's attempts to file the suit in two countruies. That is NOT the behavior of a repentant man.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Oh boy...

I'm going to pitch a nice, friendly question here. If say, the Wings did not get Bertuzzi at the deadline, would anyone have posted that interview or really mentioned it? I'll go with no as my answer. Just another chance for the Bertuzzi to take another stab at the guy just because they don't like him. I'm curious to here what any others have to say about my question though.

[sibiriak 84]

its not bertuzzi's choice what he gets as punishment, the NHL handed out the punishment, he served it without question knowing damn well what he did, if you have a problem with the punishment he served, take it up with the NHL, dont hold a grudge against him

Which part of my post are you replying to? I said nothing about how Bertuzzi felt about hos suspension, or that I had a grudge against Bertuzzi, because of what the NHL decided. If you quote my posts, please read them first, and quit putting someone else's words in my mouth.

[Viperar 16]

No, I am not a fan of Cicarelli and I always hated his guts.

As I said, fair or not, the damage one causes by his illegal act determines the punishment. And should (IMO).

I said that IMO (in my opinion) Bertuzzi's subsequent behavior indicated to me that his remorse is not deep enough to actually do anything about it, other than cry. If I cripple someone, and deprive them of their ability to pursue their career, and then do my damnedest to avoid paying a dime in compensation, am I really repentant? I don't think so.

If Bertuzzi doesn't think that 19 mil. is fair, go to arbitration, determine what's fair, and pay slightly more, because you are sorry you did it! Not have your lawyers block all Moore's attempts to file the suit in two countruies. That is NOT the behavior of a repentant man.

that looks like talking about how he felt about his suspension to me, maybe you should read your own posts before you launch that garbage at me.

Also please provide evidence as to where bertuzzi has done or said something where he shows that hes not willing to accept his punishment and is not repentant, because your opinion and you implying that he isnt doesnt do it for me.

[sibiriak 84]

that looks like talking about how he felt about his suspension to me, maybe you should read your own posts before you launch that garbage at me.

Also please provide evidence as to where bertuzzi has done or said something where he shows that hes not willing to accept his punishment and is not repentant, because your opinion and you implying that he isnt doesnt do it for me.

If you read the Wingsfan31's post that I was replying to, you'll see that I was talking about Bertuzzi's behavior Re: Moore's civil suit. You were the one who brought the suspension and other players' acts into the conversation.

As to what I based my opinion of Bertuzzi's remorse on, re-read my post where I talk about how Bertuzzi has his lawyers block Moore's attempts to file the civil suit in various courts, and take into account the fact that it's been 3 years, and Moore still hasn't seen a dime from "repentant" Bertuzzi. Again, that doesn't spell "remorse" to me.

EDIT-typos

Edited March 8, 2007 by sibiriak

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

My last and final post on the Bertuzzi incident:

Bertuzzi obviously intended to hurt Moore, he probably just didn't figure he'd break his neck.

Moore did not "deserve what he got" because of the Naslund hit. There is a way to handle these things in the game of hockey, and what Bertuzzi did is well outside of that.

It is clearly among the worst incidents in modern hockey. McSorley, Johnson, Bertuzzi. Why do you think it was televised around the world in places that normally don't say anything about hockey? Anyone who says there've been many worse hits is full of sh*t. It was among the worst cheapshots the game has seen. He chased him down and exacted revenge by punching him from behind. That's different than throwing an elbow when you're checking a guy.

Bertuzzi is completely responsible for Moore's broken neck. First, if had to pick a moment that may have snapped his neck, I would choose the point where a 6'3" 245 lb guy coldcocked him from behind to the back of the head, not a bunch of guys lying on his body. Either way, Moore's lights were out when he hit the ice, so whether it was the punch, his head hitting the ice, or the guys on top of him, none of that happens if Bert doesn't knock him unconscious.

Bertuzzi's suspension should've extended 10 games into the season when the NHL resumed. He didn't deserve banning for life, but I think he deserved a little more public shame when the game resumed. "Everyone gets to play hockey, except you Todd. you gotta sit for a bit." I'm sure though that's exactly why the league didn't extend it. They wanted this incident behind them.

It doesn't matter if Moore was a 4th liner or not. Bertuzzi stripped him of his ability to play hockey at any level. And no one here knows what the extent of Moore's injuries really are. Post concussion syndrome is a strange beast.

Bertuzzi is now a Red Wing. I'll probably never be a fan of the guy, but I guess a part of me does hope he can resurrect his hockey career here in Detroit and earn some respect back as a player.

All that being said, I'm gonna try not to talk about this crap anymore and argue with people who cling to the "stepped on his stick" or "Moore deserved it." It's now about Bertuzzi getting healthy, and hopefully becoming a power forward again.

Edited for my ever failing grammar.

Excellent post. I pretty much feel the exact same way.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

No, I am not a fan of Cicarelli and I always hated his guts.

As I said, fair or not, the damage one causes by his illegal act determines the punishment. And should (IMO).

I said that IMO (in my opinion) Bertuzzi's subsequent behavior indicated to me that his remorse is not deep enough to actually do anything about it, other than cry. If I cripple someone, and deprive them of their ability to pursue their career, and then do my damnedest to avoid paying a dime in compensation, am I really repentant? I don't think so.

If Bertuzzi doesn't think that 19 mil. is fair, go to arbitration, determine what's fair, and pay slightly more, because you are sorry you did it! Not have your lawyers block all Moore's attempts to file the suit in two countruies. That is NOT the behavior of a repentant man.

I guess we have a fundamental difference of opinion then. From where I sit, if you want to protect players and avoid ugly incidents like this that bring disfavor to the league as a whole, you punish the offense and try to get it out of the game. You don't punish based on the severity of the results because then you are still allowing the behavior to occur and potentially, the same results to happen again. The league out to punish players who strike opponents in the head when it isn't an actual fight (ie sucker punches) for 15 games or something and rid themselves of the potential harm instead of just letting players take their chances with it.

For instance, say Yzerman lost his cool and punched somebody out and broke their neck. Would you feel the same about Yzerman. Would you insist he's not sincere in his remorse? Would you agree with those who call him a scumbag and want him banned from the league?

Punish the behavior if you want it to stop. IMO, your opinion is poopy. J/K I just don't agree with your logic.

Edited March 8, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted