The NHL Needs the Wings to Win the Cup

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Way to address the issues. That was about the equivalent of "YOUR MOM."

I'll grow up when you do. Read your post again and think of an adult way to express your views. Until then, drink a Capri-Sun and calm the f*** down.

[Earthhuman 8]

I'll grow up when you do. Read your post again and think of an adult way to express your views. [Deleted due to severe immaturity]

His post stuck to the topic. He already grew up, your turn.

http://hockeyrodent.com/R1785.HTM <-- Good arguement on expansion, and why things are fine the way they are, or even a little too far. Stick with the article if you disagree with it.

Finally, I agree that NY would make a great Champ. They may not be the world champion of fanbase, but they definitely lead the US, which is what we're talking about in the first place.

And finally, why does the NHL need a bigger fanbase? Everybody is making more then they are spending, the owners get to continue their outrageously ridiculous lifestyles, and hockey players can support themselves well past their death.

I guess they could use another garage full of porsches.

[wee whaler 0]

I like fewer teams in general, NHL has been too diluted through expansion, then the "franchise players" go out on loan at the trade deadline to make a run for the cup.

Screw the Rangers, they have the fan base and resources, but they consistently suck through unachieving and being outcoached.

It would be nice to see players develop through their own systems once and awhile, and the draft would actually mean something.

Sabres/Wings finals!

[Legionnaire11 0]

And finally, why does the NHL need a bigger fanbase? Everybody is making more then they are spending, the owners get to continue their outrageously ridiculous lifestyles, and hockey players can support themselves well past their death.

I actually have thought about this for a long time. Hearing all the arguments about where the NHL ranks in terms of popularity. Why is it so important for the NHL to be considered a major sport? or to rival the NBA and NASCAR? What if the NHL was only as popular as MLS? I mean, i'm sure soccer fans know where to go to see a soccer game, and they enjoy soccer just as much as ever regardless of weather or not the rest of the country are rabid soccer fans. To me, i'll always be a hockey fan no matter how popular it is. I'll always find the channel that hockey is on, i'll always find message boards to talk about it and websites to read about it. It's horrible to say it, but if the Preds ever moved or were contracted, i'd find another team to root for (Flyers), and I'd still like hockey just as much as ever before. Does any of that hinge on the masses being hockey fans also? not at all.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I actually have thought about this for a long time. Hearing all the arguments about where the NHL ranks in terms of popularity. Why is it so important for the NHL to be considered a major sport? or to rival the NBA and NASCAR? What if the NHL was only as popular as MLS? I mean, i'm sure soccer fans know where to go to see a soccer game, and they enjoy soccer just as much as ever regardless of weather or not the rest of the country are rabid soccer fans. To me, i'll always be a hockey fan no matter how popular it is. I'll always find the channel that hockey is on, i'll always find message boards to talk about it and websites to read about it. It's horrible to say it, but if the Preds ever moved or were contracted, i'd find another team to root for (Flyers), and I'd still like hockey just as much as ever before. Does any of that hinge on the masses being hockey fans also? not at all.

I feel the same, except that Bettman feels that it IS important to be as big as the NBA and he is hurting the game to do it. I would like 24 teams, but I will get 32 first I think.

[Guest Crymson]

I actually have thought about this for a long time. Hearing all the arguments about where the NHL ranks in terms of popularity. Why is it so important for the NHL to be considered a major sport? or to rival the NBA and NASCAR? What if the NHL was only as popular as MLS? I mean, i'm sure soccer fans know where to go to see a soccer game, and they enjoy soccer just as much as ever regardless of weather or not the rest of the country are rabid soccer fans. To me, i'll always be a hockey fan no matter how popular it is. I'll always find the channel that hockey is on, i'll always find message boards to talk about it and websites to read about it. It's horrible to say it, but if the Preds ever moved or were contracted, i'd find another team to root for (Flyers), and I'd still like hockey just as much as ever before. Does any of that hinge on the masses being hockey fans also? not at all.

There's a small matter called $$$$$.

[eva unit zero 271]

I like fewer teams in general, NHL has been too diluted through expansion

While it's true that a 24 team league would have a higher skill level than a 30 team league given the same talent pool, you have to consider something:

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The NHL has expanded by about 40% since 1987. The talent pool of players the NHL has access to who would have been good enough to play in the NHL in 1987 has grown by at least 75%, based on the number of Canadians in the NHL. Meaning that for the talent to have been diluted through the 90s expansion, there would have to be a minimum of THIRTY SEVEN teams.

As you know, there are only thirty. Which means that about 140 players currently in other leagues are NHL-level in 1987.

The fact that you could assemble an entire 16 team league of NHL-level (circa 1987) players on TOP of the 21 teams that were around in 1987 is pretty remarkable. Ultimately, it just proves that the WHA was ten years too early--imagine if it were still around in the late 80s and early 90s when Europeans were coming over en masse for the first time?

Not to mention...the skill level lost by having a 25% increase in teams with a stagnant talent pool is minimal. If you contracted six teams right now, each team would get a maximum of five new players. Only a handful of players total from any six teams would make any significant impact on their new team. And as these players would be pretty evenly distributed, with the better players going to the worse teams of course, that wouldn't really affect the on ice product. A casual fan or a new fan isn't going to notice the subtle increase in overall quality--minor league and junior games can often be much more entertaining despite having significantly fewer NHL quality players--if any.

The best way to increase fan base--something the NHL needs to survive--is to increase market size. If we assume the 25% increase in teams coincides with a 25% increase in market size--it's likely more, as the NHL has only been expanding into large markets--that means that 'qualitative changes' would have to eliminate ONE IN FOUR existing fans to gain nothing, and MORE than that to reduce size. While you might not like teams in Florida or California, the fact remains that almost every team now gets attendance that would be a solid mark in 1987, and the worst for attendance are Midwestern teams in traditional markets.

Case in point: Winnipeg is often cited as a city that 'needs' or 'deserves' a team. Their best single season average attendance mark (about 13,800) has been outdone SEVERAL times by Phoenix, and that same mark would rank close to last in today's NHL. This was Winnipeg's BEST year for attendance, mind you..they were often much worse.

[betterREDthandead 58]

You guys are all way off. The single best scenario for the NHL would be a Thrashers/Wings final.

With good teams and Cup winners in Carolina and Tampa Bay, those teams are slowly but definitely gaining a solid loyal fan base. Take a look - Tampa especially did very, very well in attendance this year, and Carolina was none too shabby either. Carolina fans really took to their team during their runs to the Finals in '02 and '06. Proof that a good long playoff run is one big key to acceptance in a city.

So here we have the Thrashers, a team that has some dynamic players and a smallish group of extremely loyal fans, playing in one of the hugest markets around. The thing that American sports fans love to watch more than anything else is the classic David vs. Goliath matchup. The Wings are the most accomplished and most glamorous team in the West right now - the Thrashers are a nice little story on their first ever trip to the postseason. The perfect David and Goliath matchup. A lot of casual hockey fans and many hardcore ones would be pulling for the Thrashers; many other hardcore fans would be pulling for tradition to win the day. Either way, it's win-win for the league. David wins, the Cinderella story comes true, it's all very feel-good, and interest in the league picks up. Goliath wins, all the David fans have a target for their passion and anger, and interest in the league picks up.

The media might latch on to a New York team in the Finals, but the reality is most people in the country just roll their eyes and tune out when New York teams get all the attention.

[wee whaler 0]

Doubtful, anyone would admit to retraction of their franchise (Nashville, Phoenix, Florida or whoever), maybe I cannot comprehend being a fan of a team who never sells out, never wins, or overspends and underacheives consistently.

It is sad to see Nashville and Anahiem with empty arenas when they are nearly on top of their conference all season.

How does that work? the expansion/diluted discussion is about mediocrity and mediocre teams, which quite honestly are in the Wings divison.

I love the NHL, but i am becoming more of a fan of the OHL and World tournaments, etc. over recent years

Edited April 6, 2007 by wee whaler