Bone-crushing hits and rough play

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

In today's NHL, players are bigger, stronger, and faster than ever before. This leads to some of the most breath taking highlight reel goals, saves, and yes, hits we have ever seen. However, there is a cry for the NHL to regulate blows to the head with shoulders just like it has with elbows. On a recent showing of HNIC's Coach's Corner, Grapes talked about this. I agreed with what he had to say.

He showed clips of hits on guys like Bobby Orr. One hit in particular, Orr had his head down, while skating the puck out of the defensive zone. He was coming up the far boards, and the dman stepped up, and absolutely drilled him. Orr went down like a ton of bricks. He stayed down, play was stopped. Orr skated off under his own power. It was a clean hit, and something Bobby undoubtedly learned a lot from.

Then Grapes showed some hits from today's game, Jason Williams and Todd Fedoryuk. Both guys got hit hard(yes,I know Todd was hit with a fist), both were knocked out, both were carted off on stretchers. Both could have skated off under their own power, Fedoryuk wanted to get up and skate off, but he wasn't allowed to do so. Grapes argued that the reason so many people think hitting in today's game is so much worse than it was before is due in large part to the sight of seeing someone carted off the ice on a stretcher, which is something you just didn't see back then unless it was necessary. That is a somber sight, and one that, for the most part, hasn't been necessary in the NHL.

Scott Stevens was the master of the open ice hit. We all saw what he did to Lindros, Kozlov, and Paulie. We had a guy by the name of Konstontinov who was pretty good at that too, anyone remember his hit on Lindros in the finals? Ouch. You don't really see a whole lot of hits like that in todays NHL, I think mostly because the game is so much more fluid.

This is also a great example of why fighting is a necessary part of the NHL game. When a guy, like Dallas Drake, shows no concern or RESPECT for a fellow NHLer and leaves his feet to hit the player, just like he did Lebda, a fight is necessary. Why no one went after him, I don't know, maybe it's because no one on the Wings was willing to fight (just another reason to keep Bert around). If someone had stood up for Lebda, I know as a player, I would feel much better about my team. When you know that your fellow mates have your back, you can play fearless. There is a bond there with your team that is created, or lost in moments like this. It's something all the great teams have had, and something I think the Wings started to get at the end of the season, and really built on in the Calgary series.

BTW, I know the topic title doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but I told someone I would, and I'm a man of my word. FYI, I'm going with great player....

[betterREDthandead 58]

Huh?

Told someone you would what?

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Huh?

Told someone you would what?

It's an inside joke, I wouldn't expect anyone else to understand the last paragraph.....

[DaKineMaui 8]

Well ok.....I've read through the original post a few times.....no offense man, but what?

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

It's an inside joke, I wouldn't expect anyone else to understand the last paragraph.....

You're an idiot.

Inside joke, woldn't expect you to understand.

[wingschamps 0]

You're an idiot.

Inside joke, woldn't expect you to understand.

I agree though. What?

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Let me clear things up, the title of the thread is the inside joke, and since you don't understand the joke, you wouldn't understand the last paragraph. The rest of the thread is just some thoughts of mine.

[FUUFNF 1]

[spydrwebb 0]

nowhere near the greatest.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

In today's NHL, players are bigger, stronger, and faster than ever before. This leads to some of the most breath taking highlight reel goals, saves, and yes, hits we have ever seen. However, there is a cry for the NHL to regulate blows to the head with shoulders just like it has with elbows. On a recent showing of HNIC's Coach's Corner, Grapes talked about this. I agreed with what he had to say.

He showed clips of hits on guys like Bobby Orr. One hit in particular, Orr had his head down, while skating the puck out of the defensive zone. He was coming up the far boards, and the dman stepped up, and absolutely drilled him. Orr went down like a ton of bricks. He stayed down, play was stopped. Orr skated off under his own power. It was a clean hit, and something Bobby undoubtedly learned a lot from.

Then Grapes showed some hits from today's game, Jason Williams and Todd Fedoryuk. Both guys got hit hard(yes,I know Todd was hit with a fist), both were knocked out, both were carted off on stretchers. Both could have skated off under their own power, Fedoryuk wanted to get up and skate off, but he wasn't allowed to do so. Grapes argued that the reason so many people think hitting in today's game is so much worse than it was before is due in large part to the sight of seeing someone carted off the ice on a stretcher, which is something you just didn't see back then unless it was necessary. That is a somber sight, and one that, for the most part, hasn't been necessary in the NHL.

Scott Stevens was the master of the open ice hit. We all saw what he did to Lindros, Kozlov, and Paulie. We had a guy by the name of Konstontinov who was pretty good at that too, anyone remember his hit on Lindros in the finals? Ouch. You don't really see a whole lot of hits like that in todays NHL, I think mostly because the game is so much more fluid.

This is also a great example of why fighting is a necessary part of the NHL game. When a guy, like Dallas Drake, shows no concern or RESPECT for a fellow NHLer and leaves his feet to hit the player, just like he did Lebda, a fight is necessary. Why no one went after him, I don't know, maybe it's because no one on the Wings was willing to fight (just another reason to keep Bert around). If someone had stood up for Lebda, I know as a player, I would feel much better about my team. When you know that your fellow mates have your back, you can play fearless. There is a bond there with your team that is created, or lost in moments like this. It's something all the great teams have had, and something I think the Wings started to get at the end of the season, and really built on in the Calgary series.

BTW, I know the topic title doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but I told someone I would, and I'm a man of my word. FYI, I'm going with great player....

Of course this isn't accounting for advances in medical knowledge and having medical staff on the ice that understand that concussions are a serious business.....

Grapes is right, in a way, that the perception is thrown off by having more players carted off, but at the same time we know so much more now than back in the day about what Concussions are and what they do that there really isn't any other way to approach them at the moment.

On 2nd thought, Grapes seems to forget, sometimes, that this isn't the 1970s anymore. Hockey won't ever be like that again.

Edited May 1, 2007 by BuckeyeWingsfan80

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Vincent Lecaviler, great player, or greatest player?

I mean you could have at least tried to spell his name right if you're going to do an "inside joke"(why the hell are you posting an "Inside joke" on a forum where thousands of people will be pissed off by it, again?), you could at least spell the name correctly.

Hint: LECAVALIER

[Kp-Wings 3]

Wrong-O. Mark Mowers is the greatest player EVAR.

[Flip-check 6]

[jagr68 0]

Yeah I saw that on HNIC also.

I think I agree too. Seems the only time ESPN or other sports channels show hockey highlights it's usually of a guy taken off in a stretcher, a dirty hit (which probably will lead to a stretcher), or a bench brawl....

Like Grapes said, back in the day, even when they did go to the hospital they wouldn't put the guy on a stretcher until he was back in the lockerroom area. Maybe they figure, if their is a chance of a neck injury, why risk it. Get his head and neck secure on a stretcher before he tries to get up and skate..

Other than spelling Vinny's name wrong, I don't know why people are so upset by the topic. Just a inside joke between you and whoever. But either way, I'd say Vinny is the second best forward in the world today. I'm gonna have to go with Sid the Kid as the only one to top him currently (all time of course, is Mario). So in my opinion, he's great, but not the greatest.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Yeah I saw that on HNIC also.

I think I agree too. Seems the only time ESPN or other sports channels show hockey highlights it's usually of a guy taken off in a stretcher, a dirty hit (which probably will lead to a stretcher), or a bench brawl....

Like Grapes said, back in the day, even when they did go to the hospital they wouldn't put the guy on a stretcher until he was back in the lockerroom area. Maybe they figure, if their is a chance of a neck injury, why risk it. Get his head and neck secure on a stretcher before he tries to get up and skate..

Other than spelling Vinny's name wrong, I don't know why people are so upset by the topic. Just a inside joke between you and whoever. But either way, I'd say Vinny is the second best forward in the world today. I'm gonna have to go with Sid the Kid as the only one to top him currently (all time of course, is Mario). So in my opinion, he's great, but not the greatest.

Yeah, i'm not so sure why people are getting so upset about the title. It's an eye catching title, especially on a message board for Wings fans, which leads to more hits on the thread. It's basic writing knowledge, if your title is engaging, people are more likely to check it out.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

In today's NHL, players are bigger, stronger, and faster than ever before. This leads to some of the most breath taking highlight reel goals, saves, and yes, hits we have ever seen. However, there is a cry for the NHL to regulate blows to the head with shoulders just like it has with elbows. On a recent showing of HNIC's Coach's Corner, Grapes talked about this. I agreed with what he had to say.

He showed clips of hits on guys like Bobby Orr. One hit in particular, Orr had his head down, while skating the puck out of the defensive zone. He was coming up the far boards, and the dman stepped up, and absolutely drilled him. Orr went down like a ton of bricks. He stayed down, play was stopped. Orr skated off under his own power. It was a clean hit, and something Bobby undoubtedly learned a lot from.

Then Grapes showed some hits from today's game, Jason Williams and Todd Fedoryuk. Both guys got hit hard(yes,I know Todd was hit with a fist), both were knocked out, both were carted off on stretchers. Both could have skated off under their own power, Fedoryuk wanted to get up and skate off, but he wasn't allowed to do so. Grapes argued that the reason so many people think hitting in today's game is so much worse than it was before is due in large part to the sight of seeing someone carted off the ice on a stretcher, which is something you just didn't see back then unless it was necessary. That is a somber sight, and one that, for the most part, hasn't been necessary in the NHL.

Scott Stevens was the master of the open ice hit. We all saw what he did to Lindros, Kozlov, and Paulie. We had a guy by the name of Konstontinov who was pretty good at that too, anyone remember his hit on Lindros in the finals? Ouch. You don't really see a whole lot of hits like that in todays NHL, I think mostly because the game is so much more fluid.

This is also a great example of why fighting is a necessary part of the NHL game. When a guy, like Dallas Drake, shows no concern or RESPECT for a fellow NHLer and leaves his feet to hit the player, just like he did Lebda, a fight is necessary. Why no one went after him, I don't know, maybe it's because no one on the Wings was willing to fight (just another reason to keep Bert around). If someone had stood up for Lebda, I know as a player, I would feel much better about my team. When you know that your fellow mates have your back, you can play fearless. There is a bond there with your team that is created, or lost in moments like this. It's something all the great teams have had, and something I think the Wings started to get at the end of the season, and really built on in the Calgary series.

BTW, I know the topic title doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but I told someone I would, and I'm a man of my word. FYI, I'm going with great player....

Couple of things:

1. I'm all for keeping things the way they are. Shoulder blows to the head IMO are not the fault of the hitter but the fault of the player who skates with his head down. I don't even know how they'd police that. Think about it, all you'd have to do is skate with your head down half the time and probably not get touched. Its a bad idea. If a guy leaves himself vulnerable to a big hit then its his fault. Next.

2. As for the stretcher issue. Back in the old days players were smaller, slower and weaker than today. Getting freight trained by a guy who is 240 going full speed prolly ain't the same as a guy in the 60's weighing in at 185 and going full speed. Also, much of it is precautionary and IMO that's a good thing. Its an ugly thing to see on the tv screen but better safe than sorry when it comes to the health of multi-million dollar athletes. Another very important thing to consider is that back in the day those player probably suffered concussion after concussion and nobody batted an eyelash. Nowadays they screen players brains prior to the season starting to see what's going on and then they check them again after they've suffered a traumatic hit to see if anything doesn't match up. 40 years ago players just sucked it up and skated off, suffering the ill effects for god knows how long, maybe even long after their playing days were over.

IMO, you can't compare today's game to the 50's, 60's and 70's. Players are just far greater in all the attributes I mentioned above. I don't know if Grapes thinks the league is pussified because they whip out the stretchers so quickly or what but as much as I love old time hockey I think i'm smart enough to realize that those players back in the day probably suffered some pretty serious injuries that never went detected. Now we detect these things, we look for them and we try to keep players as healthy as possible and if that means being precautionary and carting them off then i'm all for it.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Creating a thread title that has absolutely nothing to do with the content of your lengthy post isn't exactly the greatest way to get your point across, if you had one.

[WingsZR2 1]

I guess this fits here, who knows?

[jagr68 0]

I guess this fits here, who knows?

Boy, did that bring back memories....

It's been said many times. But gees, it's not like he could only hit. He could actually play the game and was a physical force out there.......

[Lou_Siffer 1]

It's basic writing knowledge, if your title is engaging, people are more likely to check it out.

Then why are you only offering a PS2 for accepting Christ, yeah like who doesnt already have one of those....el cheapo!

Edited May 2, 2007 by Lou_Siffer

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Then why are you only offering a PS2 for accepting Christ, yeah like who doesnt already have one of those....el cheapo!

I'm not offering it, good 'ol JC is...

[DaKineMaui 8]

Creating a thread title that has absolutely nothing to do with the content of your lengthy post isn't exactly the greatest way to get your point across, if you had one.

Dear harold.....I am NOT the boss of you, or anyone around here......but as a personal favor? Can you please threadjack this thing back into the stoneages? I'd consider it a solid.

aloha nui loa

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I'm not offering it, good 'ol JC is...

I bet his favorite game is Halo

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Dear harold.....I am NOT the boss of you, or anyone around here......but as a personal favor? Can you please threadjack this thing back into the stoneages? I'd consider it a solid.

aloha nui loa

so I had this dream the other night where I was back in high school, eating lunch in the cafeteria. only it wasn't really my high school cafeteria, but in my dream I knew it was supposed to be. you know how that happens in dreams?

anyway, what's weird is I'm sitting across the table from Hawkeye and BJ from M*A*S*H. We're all eating lunch together with a few of my friends. And my girlfriend from high school is sitting with us too. She's the girl I'm taking to prom (and the girl I really took to prom), and I'm thinking, I don't even like this girl. Why am I taking her?

and I want to ask Hawkeye for advice, but can't do it in front of her. So it's me, Hawkeye, BJ and my girlfriend eating lunch, and the whole time I'm just hoping my girlfriend will leave so I can talk to Hawkeye.

So I guess the moral of the story is that I like pizza.

(and off topic, this thread had a totally different name when I made my initial post).

Edited May 2, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Lou_Siffer 1]

so I had this dream the other night where I was back in high school, eating lunch in the cafeteria. only it wasn't really my high school cafeteria, but in my dream I knew it was supposed to be. you know how that happens in dreams?

anyway, what's weird is I'm sitting across the table from Hawkeye and BJ from M*A*S*H. We're all eating lunch together with a few of my friends. And my girlfriend from high school is sitting with us too. She's the girl I'm taking to prom (and the girl I really took to prom), and I'm thinking, I don't even like this girl. Why am I taking her?

and I want to ask Hawkeye for advice, but can't do it in front of her. So it's me, Hawkeye, BJ and my girlfriend eating lunch, and the whole time I'm just hoping my girlfriend will leave so I can talk to Hawkeye.

So I guess the moral of the story is that I like pizza.

(and as an aside, this thread had a totally different name when I made my initial post).

I think the underlying moral of the dream Harold is that like your love for pizza, you just wanted someone hot and ready on prom night.