Samsonov traded to Chicago

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Whatever dude. Keep rambling about God knows what. You know dick about football, thats obvious. You contradict yourself from post to post. Im done trying to debate with someone that uses the whole basis for their earlier arguement by strictly using stats, then when the "stats" word gets thrown out for Williams, now thats not what your talking about. You can try to justify it any way you can, the bottom line is, Samsonov scores more goals, he generates more assists, he is proven in the playoffs, and when all is said and done will have the more overall impressive career. I'll take that over Williams any day. And nothing you keep rambling about will change that. School is now out of session. That'll be $65 bucks please. If you need any other lessons on any sports, just PM me. I'll help you out again.

Your'e cute. Once you realize the futility of your argument, you try to make it seem like it is me who doesn't know anything. Really, it's cute.

The use of stats in the earlier argument was used to compare Thornton and Samsonov. It had nothing do to with the comparison of Samsonov and J Willy. I never said J Willy would put up bigger numbers, or that he had more talent. All I said was that he was a better player. If you choosed to see a player are being 'better' because he puts up more points, sobeit.

Riddle me this, what has Samsonov proven in the playoffs? He has never won a Cup, and until last season he had never been past the second round. Do I need to remind you that J Willy has his named etched on the Silver Chalis?

Lastly how'd you come up with $65? Hah, if you actually get people to pay you for your 'knowledge' I guess you are much more sly than you put off in your posts.

Now hurry up Sparky, finish your dinner, it's almost bedtime.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Riddle me this, what has Samsonov proven in the playoffs? He has never won a Cup, and until last season he had never been past the second round. Do I need to remind you that J Willy has his named etched on the Silver Chalis?

Lastly how'd you come up with $65? Hah, if you actually get people to pay you for your 'knowledge' I guess you are much more sly than you put off in your posts.

Now hurry up Sparky, finish your dinner, it's almost bedtime.

First off, dude I know Im cute and all, but please stop hitting on me, you obviously like dudes, and thats cool, just not my thing bro. Anyways, so you use stats for the whole basis of your arguement before, now somehow its different cause were talking about Williams now??? That makes sense. And to use our 02' Cup win to aid your Williams arguement just shows how intelligent you really are. Like Williams had ANYTHING to do with winning the cup. I mean seriously, right there you just made yourself look like a complete dolt. You must have a short memory where Samsonov burned our asses in the first round. He had 2 game winning goals against us. And that was just the first round. And I was obviously joking about a random dollar amount. I guess people that know dick about sports also have no sense of humor as well. Funny you would be mentioning a bedtime, considering your probably another high school kid. I graduated College already chump, so I think its time for your bedtime little girl. Man you must be worn out from getting schooled 3 times in one day. Ouch.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

First off, dude I know Im cute and all, but please stop hitting on me, you obviously like dudes, and thats cool, just not my thing bro. Anyways, so you use stats for the whole basis of your arguement before, now somehow its different cause were talking about Williams now??? That makes sense. And to use our 02' Cup win to aid your Williams arguement just shows how intelligent you really are. Like Williams had ANYTHING to do with winning the cup. I mean seriously, right there you just made yourself look like a complete dolt. You must have a short memory where Samsonov burned our asses in the first round. He had 2 game winning goals against us. And that was just the first round. And I was obviously joking about a random dollar amount. I guess people that know dick about sports also have no sense of humor as well. Funny you would be mentioning a bedtime, considering your probably another high school kid. I graduated College already chump, so I think its time for your bedtime little girl. Man you must be worn out from getting schooled 3 times in one day. Ouch.

I wouldnt say Samsonov had a whole lot to do with the Oilers doing so well. 4 goals? Not that important.

Roloson , Smith , Spacek , Pronger , Smyth , Horcoff , Pisani , Hemsky , Hell even Markenen played well in the finals.

I noticed Samsonov in the wings series , thats all. He was pushed around by San Jose , Anaheim and Carolina. And something about Samsonov that always irked me , is he's not a great team guy and hes 5'8.

[Guest DetroitIan]

I wouldnt say Samsonov had a whole lot to do with the Oilers doing so well. 4 goals? Not that important.

Roloson , Smith , Spacek , Pronger , Smyth , Horcoff , Pisani , Hemsky , Hell even Markenen played well in the finals.

I noticed Samsonov in the wings series , thats all. He was pushed around by San Jose , Anaheim and Carolina. And something about Samsonov that always irked me , is he's not a great team guy and hes 5'8.

4 goals wasnt all he did that post season though. He was a speed demon in the neutral zone, and he was passing so crisply in each series. All 4 of his goals were big goals. I know people that already dont like Samsonov might think less of him. And I know his small size can hurt him. But he was clutch with the Oil. And from what I remember, as much as he was being pushed around by the sharks, he was also skating circles around them. He's getting older yet his speed hasnt diminished at all. So yeah I would say he was quite important in the Oilers run. They had alot of other guys that stepped up as well, but so did Sergei. To me being clutch is more important then size. And the reason you noticed his good plays during the Red Wings series is because his 2 goals against us were both game winners. But If there is one thing bad I will say about Samsonov, its that he has basically no grit, and he is getting older. I guess we'll find out seeing how we will be seeing him 8 times a year now.

Edited June 19, 2007 by DetroitIan

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

First off, dude I know Im cute and all, but please stop hitting on me, you obviously like dudes, and thats cool, just not my thing bro. Anyways, so you use stats for the whole basis of your arguement before, now somehow its different cause were talking about Williams now??? That makes sense. And to use our 02' Cup win to aid your Williams arguement just shows how intelligent you really are. Like Williams had ANYTHING to do with winning the cup. I mean seriously, right there you just made yourself look like a complete dolt. You must have a short memory where Samsonov burned our asses in the first round. He had 2 game winning goals against us. And that was just the first round. And I was obviously joking about a random dollar amount. I guess people that know dick about sports also have no sense of humor as well. Funny you would be mentioning a bedtime, considering your probably another high school kid. I graduated College already chump, so I think its time for your bedtime little girl. Man you must be worn out from getting schooled 3 times in one day. Ouch.

If you would just take a few minutes and read what was wrote before, you'd see that stats were about Thornton producing more than Samsonov. Nothing more, nothing less. I've already told you that Samsonov is indeed more skilled than J Willy, so what are you trying to prove? How does bringing stats into that 'argument' help anything? Relax Sparky, I gave that one to you.

Did J Willy have anything to do with the Cup run? Not much, but the point is that his name is there, and Samsonov's isn't. Show me one season that Samsonov contributed more to his team winning the Cup that J Willy did in '02, and I'll give you this one too. But you can't because Samsonov has never won a Cup. I won't be as arrogant as many people on here are and say he never will win a Cup. But the fact still stands that he hasn't won a Cup, and I can promise you he won't win one in Chicago next year.

By the looks of your posts, you must have had someone write all your papers in college. Nice job Sparky, I'll tip my hat to that. It was people like you who made it possible to finish grad school debt free. Like they say, there is a fool bron every day.

To you Sparky, I send my regards. It's dinner time for me.

I wouldnt say Samsonov had a whole lot to do with the Oilers doing so well. 4 goals? Not that important.

Roloson , Smith , Spacek , Pronger , Smyth , Horcoff , Pisani , Hemsky , Hell even Markenen played well in the finals.

I noticed Samsonov in the wings series , thats all. He was pushed around by San Jose , Anaheim and Carolina. And something about Samsonov that always irked me , is he's not a great team guy and hes 5'8.

Let's be serious here. Samsonov is 5'8" when he has his skates on while standing on Theo Fleury's shoulders.

[Guest DetroitIan]

I believe we will just agree to disagree here. Clearly the Blackhawks wont win the cup next year. Hell, they probably wont even make the playoffs. But my original post and my original point, is if you think he's gonna have another year like he did in Montreal you have another thing coming. That was truely my only point. How it blew up into all this bulls*** I dont know. But the fact is, he's not as s***ty as he played last season. And trust me, you will find this out like the rest of us when we see him 8 times next season. And no, I wrote all my own papers thanks. I guess graduating with a 3.4 isnt too shabby huh "Sparky"? Enjoy your dinner.

[Guest Agalloch]

I just read through that entire argument, and I can conclude that DetroitIan doesn't know what he's talking about.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I just read through that entire argument, and I can conclude that DetroitIan doesn't know what he's talking about.

SHHHHH don't tell him!! Sparky had a 3.4 GPA in college, he knows what he is talking about!

[Kp-Wings 3]

It's a bit of stertch to say Samsonov is any better then Williams (note: This is coming from probably the biggest Williams hater you can find on these boards. That man is terrible at hockey, and how he ever became a second line player on this team is a mystery best left unsolved). But still though, Samsonov was hardly the deciding factor in Edmonton's playoff run. It was mostly Roloson.

I give Markkanen credit for stepping in and playing well, but they never would have went that far with him all along? No way. Conklin wouldn't have been any better either. Roloson got them were they needed to go, not Samsonov. Samsonov was just kind of "there".

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

It's a bit of stertch to say Samsonov is any better then Williams (note: This is coming from probably the biggest Williams hater you can find on these boards. That man is terrible at hockey, and how he ever became a second line player on this team is a mystery best left unsolved). But still though, Samsonov was hardly the deciding factor in Edmonton's playoff run. It was mostly Roloson.

I give Markkanen credit for stepping in and playing well, but they never would have went that far with him all along? No way. Conklin wouldn't have been any better either. Roloson got them were they needed to go, not Samsonov. Samsonov was just kind of "there".

J Willy is better. Samsonov is more skilled. J Willy is more complete, he isn't a defensive liability, and he can score. Samsonov is a defensive liability.

[Guest DetroitIan]

I just read through that entire argument, and I can conclude that DetroitIan doesn't know what he's talking about.

Oh no, not the allmighty wise Agalloch telling me im wrong. That really means something. Now it is set in stone that Samsonov is a bum. Nothing more to say now.

SHHHHH don't tell him!! Sparky had a 3.4 GPA in college, he knows what he is talking about!

Sparky???LOL Thats the gayest s*** I ever heard. Makes you look brilliant each time. Sounds like hardcore jealousy to me. I don't blame ya bro.

[Kp-Wings 3]

J Willy is better. Samsonov is more skilled. J Willy is more complete, he isn't a defensive liability, and he can score. Samsonov is a defensive liability.

Again, it's a stretch. As far as an all around game, yeah, you're probably right.

I still personally think Williams is horrible though. And even though Calder is gone, it was a great trade on Kenny's part to dump Williams.

[Guest DetroitIan]

it was a great trade on Kenny's part to dump Williams.

Amen to that.

[eva unit zero 271]

Looking at the stats a little closer, Thornton actually had a better GPG than Samsonov both while playing with and without him. When Joe Thornton puts more pucks in the net than you do on a consistant basis, are you really a goal scorer?

Samsonov had the better GPG when they were apart. Together, it's virtually identical.

Also, taking the first set of numbers, and projecting it on a per-game basis over each player's GP in the second set results in these numbers:

Thornton 220 GP, 60g-79a-139pt. Increase of 21 goals and 82 assists.

Samsonov 140 GP, 41g-54a-95pt. Increase of 10 goals and 17 assists.

Thornton certainly seems to have received the bigger benefit. Either that, or he simply developed naturally into a star, and his increased ability didn't change Samsonov's numbers significantly. Also, don't forget the fact that Samsonov was generally considered the second option for Thornton behind Bill Guerin.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Apart:

Thornton 97-98 to 00-01: 289 GP, 79g-100a-179pt

Samsonov 97-98 to 00-01: 319 GP, 95g-123a-218pt

Together:

Thornton 01-02 to 03-04: 220 GP, 81g-161a-242pt

Samsonov 01-02 to 03-04: 140 GP, 51g-70a-121pt

Directly from your original post about numbers, here is what it works out to

Apart:

Thornton - .62 PPG

Samsonov - .68 PPG

Together:

Thornton - 1.1 PPG

Samsonov - .86 PPG

So what am I missing? I was wrong about Thornton have a better PPG when they were apart, but not by much, less than a tenth of a point.

I think it is safe to say Thornton has become a star, while Samsonov has peaked, and all signs point his career declining.

In his two season with the Bruins, Guerin had 63 and 66 points respectively, those two years (00-02) Samsonov had his two best years putting up 70 and 75 points respectively. So the argument that Samsonov didn't produce because Geurin was, just isn't true.

Samsonov was the number one option for Joey, his points reflect that. What Samsonov couldn't and will never be able to handle, is being a number one option without a solid number two option on the same line, regardless if he is on the first line or the fourth line. He is only good when he isn't being pressured hard core.

Edited June 21, 2007 by BringHomeTheCup!

[eva unit zero 271]

Directly from your original post about numbers, here is what it works out to

Apart:

Thornton - .62 PPG

Samsonov - .68 PPG

Together:

Thornton - 1.1 PPG

Samsonov - .86 PPG

So what am I missing? I was wrong about Thornton have a better PPG when they were apart, but not by much, less than a tenth of a point.

I think it is safe to say Thornton has become a star, while Samsonov has peaked, and all signs point his career declining.

In his two season with the Bruins, Guerin had 63 and 66 points respectively, those two years (00-02) Samsonov had his two best years putting up 70 and 75 points respectively. So the argument that Samsonov didn't produce because Geurin was, just isn't true.

Samsonov was the number one option for Joey, his points reflect that. What Samsonov couldn't and will never be able to handle, is being a number one option without a solid number two option on the same line, regardless if he is on the first line or the fourth line. He is only good when he isn't being pressured hard core.

Samsonov was not the number one option. Look at GOALS, not points. Guerin scored 78 goals in under two seasons in Boston.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Samsonov was not the number one option. Look at GOALS, not points. Guerin scored 78 goals in under two seasons in Boston.

You might want to check your stats Sparky, he netted 28 in '01, and a career best 41 in '02. Even if you do math like President Bush, that still isn't 78.

Just FYI, Samsonov netted 29 both years ('01 and '02) for a total of 58.

Since that year, Samsonov hasn't gotten 20 goals, hell he hasn't even gotten more than 40 points.

I've got 4 words for you:

FLASH IN THE PAN