Rafalski Vs. Souray

[puckbags 863]

Souray plays defence and he still barely knows where his own end of the ice is!!

[WingNut199 0]

I actually have a lot of confidence in Rafalski to put up some numbers this coming season. I mean he has spent his entire 7 yr career on a team that doesn't know what the term, "puck possesion" means..

he has the hands (not just a big shot) to score goals and will get plenty of chances to do so on a Red Wings team that literally has talent all around him

Go Wings

Edited July 13, 2007 by WingNut199

[BowmansBrain 0]

Kenny made the perfect move. Rafalski has put up more consistant #'s through out his career. Souray just broke out last year. Watch his #'s drop w/ the oilers this season. And watch him turn over the puck again and again.

[Guest Crymson]

Edmonton - 5 years at about 5.25 a year for Souray

Detroit - 5 years at 6 a year for Rafalski

I personally would have rather seen them spend the money on Souray - he's younger, stronger, meaner and provides more offense on the PP

Don't get me wrong, Rafalski is a GREAT d-man, but I don't think he really fit our needs like Souray would have, we already arguably have our 3 "puck moving d-men" per defensive pairing - Lidstrom, Kronwall and Lebda and the contract would have been the same length for a younger defenseman that puts a little fear in opposing forwards

How does everyone else feel about this?

I fail to see how allowing constant horrible goals would fit our system. Souray was DEAD LAST amongst defensemen in +/- last year. When one considers that he scored 60+ points, that really says something.

Have you ever watched the Habs play, or are you just looking at Souray's PP goal total?

Edited July 13, 2007 by Crymson

[Guest DetroitIan]

Rafalski is definitely the better defenseman. No question about it. Souray does bring size and strength. But Rafalski brings so much to the table, that it definitely overshadows Souray's advantage in size. Kenny absolutely made the correct choice. Although If he would have chose Souray, I wouldnt be upset at all. They are both quality defensemen. Rafalski is just superior IMO.

[Hank 0]

I'm happy with Rafalski. Souray reminds me to much of McCabe.

Bingo. And everyone knows McCabe=Garbage.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Souray sucks ass. Anybody who wants him is purely going off of the fact that the guy will, on occasion, drop the gloves. While that's all fine and good, he's horrible in all aspects of the game except for the PP. He's like the Jason Allison of defenseman: He survives souly on the PP. His defensive game and his skating ability, amoung other things, is something to really be desired.

He does have a hard shot, and is mildly physical, so I'll give him that. But signing Souray would have been a horrible replacement for Schneider, since Souray is even worse defensivily, and you'll have to overwork guys like Chelios and Kronwall because Souray can't play at even strength without being blown away by someone much better then him.

Rafalski was a great pickup, and a far better player than both Schneider and Rafalski. He can play on the PP just as well as Souray, but can also play on the PK, and is capable of logging 25+ minutes of ice time without being wacked by someone way better than him. Rafalski was a great signing.

I don't know how or why people actually think Souray is a better player. Clearly the people who do have never seen the man play, and are going purely off his stats. Kinda like the same people who think signing Alexei Yashin is a good move.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[JKEITH81 0]

Souray is a total pylon in his own end. Hands down Rafalski is the better Dman.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Souray sucks ass.

Well, I wouldnt go that far. Is he better than Rafalski? No way. But he's definitely not some liability out there. The guy does help out any PP he's on. But yeah, hands down Rafalski was the right move.

[Blood On The Ice 15]

Rafalski all the way. Much better defenseman to have on the Ice. And Rafalski CAN score. You have to remember, he has played on a defensive minded team for years. With the Wings type of play and overall wings defensive strenghts, he will have plenty of opportunity to put up Souray and Snieds offensive numbers.

[Dominator2005 558]

I think Souray was -7 on empty net goals last season... He was ON PP for 88 points combined for the HABS - and that doesn't count in category for +/-...

I think that we got better OVERALL DEF in Rafalski (right hand shot ) but we still need one nasty, BIG, STAY AT HOME DEF...

[poolerman 0]

Edmonton - 5 years at about 5.25 a year for Souray

Detroit - 5 years at 6 a year for Rafalski

I personally would have rather seen them spend the money on Souray - he's younger, stronger, meaner and provides more offense on the PP

Don't get me wrong, Rafalski is a GREAT d-man, but I don't think he really fit our needs like Souray would have, we already arguably have our 3 "puck moving d-men" per defensive pairing - Lidstrom, Kronwall and Lebda and the contract would have been the same length for a younger defenseman that puts a little fear in opposing forwards

How does everyone else feel about this?

Souray is 1of the reasons Habs goailes faced 45-55 shots per night...great shot but if you stand beside him

he can't use it...very poor defensively..makes bad choices..bad penalties BUT can beat the crap out of most of NHL and likes to do it.. there is no comparison...as for teaming Sourey with lidstom..i don't see lidstrom in detroit (NHL)

this could be hisl ast year!!! I say that because of the $$$$ Rafalski got and the $$$$ Zetterberg will get!!! We can't be like Tampa pay 3 guys 20% of the payroll...everyone else has to leave....Edmonton overpaid because he was the last guy left with the big name and would sign with them...hey they could have signed Yashin!!!!

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I have only heard 2 negative things about Rafalski:

1. He is small and is FAR from a physical defenseman. And when we lost Schneider (and maybe Markov) we did lose physicality on the blueline.

2. His point shots are useless. So on the PP he would be passing, not scoring. We did lose a lot of potential PP scoring when Schneider left.

#2 remains to be seen as a flaw. He may lead the league in PP assists next season. I will miss Schneider's cannon on the PP. That is the ONLY real advantage that Souray has over Raffy. Physical play is fine as long as you are responsible, which Souray is not.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Wings_Dynasty

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Souray is 1of the reasons Habs goailes faced 45-55 shots per night...great shot but if you stand beside him

he can't use it...very poor defensively..makes bad choices..bad penalties BUT can beat the crap out of most of NHL and likes to do it.. there is no comparison...as for teaming Sourey with lidstom..i don't see lidstrom in detroit (NHL)

this could be hisl ast year!!! I say that because of the $$$$ Rafalski got and the $$$$ Zetterberg will get!!! We can't be like Tampa pay 3 guys 20% of the payroll...everyone else has to leave....Edmonton overpaid because he was the last guy left with the big name and would sign with them...hey they could have signed Yashin!!!!

Oh s***! We have to pay Lidstrom?!? He's only making, what, like 1 million a year now? Damn, we can't afford to pay him what he deserves.

Oh yeah, I just remembered- he factors into every plan they make in front office and will get every damn cent he deserves until the day he retires a wing and his jersey hits the rafters.

No question whether Lids would stay here- if it came down to it they'd dump other salary. Lids makes 7.6 million right now. Crosby makes 9 million next year. We could bring Lidstrom's salary equal to Sid the Kid's by letting Malts retire like he will end up having to do before we'd let Lids go.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

ok they both got 5 year deals, if you look at there past 5 years i think we made the right deal.

Souray 305 59+98 157 -51 512pmn

Rafalski388 30+197 227 +43 126 pmn,

So apart from being better at both ends, Rafalski is more durable too, as he played over a season's worth of

games more over the 5 years.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Andy Pred 48

[stormboy 47]

I have only heard 2 negative things about Rafalski:

1. He is small and is FAR from a physical defenseman. And when we lost Schneider (and maybe Markov) we did lose physicality on the blueline.

2. His point shots are useless. So on the PP he would be passing, not scoring. We did lose a lot of potential PP scoring when Schneider left.

#2 remains to be seen as a flaw. He may lead the league in PP assists next season. I will miss Schneider's cannon on the PP. That is the ONLY real advantage that Souray has over Raffy. Physical play is fine as long as you are responsible, which Souray is not.

as i think many were, i was frustrated with detroit's power play last season. it was never as good as the year before, and although they had a lot of talent on the ice, it never seemed to "click." i remember watching the games and being frustrated that they'd just keep passing it up to the blueline, where either the puck would skip over someone's composite stick and we'd have to chase it down the ice, or we'd get a shot that would end in (usually) an easy save, (often) a blocked shot, or (rarely) a goal.

as i was following games last season, i just remember seeing rafalski's name game after game on power play assists. we have plenty of guys that can score goals. maybe what we NEED is a blueliner who instead of shooting a lot and scoring occasionally will make great passes down low. i feel like datsyuk, z, homer, filp, (hopefully) hudler and (lately) cleary have the ability to make great things happen down low on the power play...we just never seemed to be able to get it there with any consistency without the other team's d being all over us.

maybe rafalski's lack of a point shot will actually be a blessing in disguise.

(here's to hoping.)

[Dabura 12,232]

Rafalski is 1) the much better player overall, and 2) much better suited for the Wings' playing style.

If management had it down to Rafalski and Souray, they absolutely made the right decision.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Dabura

[North Guy 0]

People... yeah, he was -28 on a "winning team". But has anyone bothered to check Montreal's (as a team) + /- ?

Montreal had one of the top PPs in the league (5th overall) and didn't make the playoffs. For the season, they gave up more goals than scored, and that includes all those PPGs. (245 for to 256 against to be specific). So, probably EVERYONE was minus on Montreal. Look at their top forwards:

Koivu -21

Higgens -11 (only because he missed games)

Ryder -25

Their top defenceman (Markov) was even minus (at -2). You expect an offensive player to somehow individually pull up the whole team?

And, because PP points don't count towards + /-, and he's a "power play specialist" with 2/3 of his points on the PP, OF COURSE he's going to be -28. Take away 2/3 of the points of just about ANY player in the league and they're going to be minus. If you're going to look at the stats, look a little deeper.

I'm not saying Souray is a better defenceman than Rafalski but he fits Edmonton's needs. Souray will somewhat fill the leadership and toughness role that Jason Smith provided, yet he is a better passer and shooter than Smith. And if you remember, Jason Smith got traded for some puck-moving defenceman named Pitkanen.

p.s. Five years from now when both defencemen are on their last year of their contract, Rafalski will be 39 years old making $6M while Souray will be 36 years old making $4.5M (the way the Oiler contract is structured).

Edited July 14, 2007 by North Guy

[BeeRYCE 2]

Souray was signed for a bargain, but Rafalski is way more defensively sound and responsible than Souray will ever be. Maybe this year, Rafalski will hit double digits in goals.