Red Wings create their own sound in Motown

[Guest Yzer19]

Where, I've never seen them give him credit for anything? Even his individual accomplishments were creditted to his teammates and playing on great teams and having great coaches.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Where, I've never seen them give him credit for anything? Even his individual accomplishments were creditted to his teammates and playing on great teams and having great coaches.

Ok, I'll give you one of many examples...

Yzerman was playing his rear off on a gimpy knee in the first round of the 2002 playoffs, leading the team despite barely being able to stand up. Their recap video of the Cup that I have, Fedorov said that made him bust his tail off as well in the latter part of the first round to help put Vancouver away, and Fedorov was just dynamite in game 5 in that first period.

Now, for the love of god and everybody else in here....

LET IT GO!!!!!!!

[Yzermania19 1]

Yzermania19, I never said the Wings can't win a cup without Yzerman. That's just not true.

But that is exactly what you said - by saying if Stevie had been in the lineup we would have won the Cup this past year, you are saying they can't win without him.

They've already won many cups without Yzerman. Other teams didn't have Yzerman on the team and have won cups. I just think that this past year Yzerman would've made a huge difference in the playoffs. He was always one of our best playoff players and you can't deny that.

Of course they won Cups without Stevie...the last time the Wings won a Cup prior to 1997, in 1955, Stevie was 10 years away from even being born.

I never denied Stevie was always one of our best playoff performers and yes, he often was a difference maker in the playoffs. BUT as I said Stevie might not have made as much a difference in these playoffs as you seem to have convinced yourself he would have. His knees were bad, his back was bad, his neck (the fused vertebrae) was bothering him, he was starting to be bothered by lots of little nagging injuries - a groin problem here, a shoulder problem there - and we all know he nearly retired in November of 2005 until Robert Lang got hurt and Ken Holland asked Steve to delay his retirement until they had enough healthy bodies (and before you say it, yes I know Stevie started to play well and decided to finish out the season). So who's to say he would have even physically made it to the playoffs?

BTW Yzerman called it at the start of the last season that the team would be every bit as competitive as they were in the past.

Yes, he did. And they were. So what's your problem?

We obviously have different opinions of what is insulting and what's not. All I want to see is for them to give Yzerman credit for mentoring these younger players and even the vets especially Lidstrom who played with Yzerman for 15 years. He must have learned something from Yzerman.

We also must have different opinions of what is respect and what isn't. It is so crystal clear to myself - and nearly everyone else on this board, and just about every hockey fan I talk to - that the level of respect Yzerman gets is so very high. There is probably not a more respected athlete - current or former - in any sport in North America.

Nick has certainly learned from Stevie...he even says so himself. He observed Stevie all those years and learned how to lead while practicing a quiet restraint. He learned you don't have to yell your fool head off to get your point across, that sometimes a simple statement is more powerful than a curse-filled rant. Stevie definitely gets credit for that. What rock have you been under?

BTW did you see the article that said Lidstrom should've been captain 16 years ago? So basically that means that Lidstrom was always a great leader and he learned nothing from playing with Yzerman and Shanny.

Yes I saw that and I disagree with it. Back then Nick was still a puppy, wet behind the ears. He might have had the makings of a leader back then but still had much to learn. Steve was still developing into the great captain he turned out to be.

kp-wings, did the wings really even have a choice? What would've happend if they didn't give Yzerman a VP job and if they didn't retire his number? It wouldn't have affected the team, but my guess is the fans wouldn't have been too happy about it and the Wings organization would look really bad. There would've needed a really good excuse for not doing either of those things especially the job since Yzerman had been looking forward to working in management. Even if they said Yzerman didn't want his number retired, they still would look bad.

There is always a choice. The Wings didn't have to retire Stevie's number or give him a job. They wanted to. There is mutual respect between Stevie and the Ilitches and really, how do you thank the man who pretty much put Red Wings hockey back on the sports map? You retire his number. You give the man a job. They know that Stevie's got a great hockey mind and for years they have been grooming him to join the front office after his retirement. That is a fact.

You know what? I'm through with you. Your constant whining about Stevie not getting respect and backpedaling when people tell you you are wrong are really far beyond ridiculous and I hope someday that you can see that. I am sure you are a reasonably intelligent person but you make yourself look silly and uninformed when you continually beat the same drum.

I'm putting you on my ignore list. It's pointless to continue this because it's the same song, different verse. And it never ends with you. It just drones on and on and on and on and on and on and...oh sorry, I got stuck for a minute - just like a broken record.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Yzermania19

[Guest Yzer19]

One last response.

Southernwingsfan, Fedorov is currently not on the team.

Yzermania19, all I'm saying is last year that the wings would've won the cup with Yzerman instead of Calder in the lineup. They certainly didn't win last year without Yzerman, but that doesn't mean that they can't win this year without Yzerman. I think they have a great chance of winning the cup this year. Your making alot of assumptions about Yzerman's health. Maybe he wouldn't have been able to handle it, but maybe he would've been able to handle it. I guess I just have more confidence in Yzerman than everyone else. Part of Yzerman's problem in 2005-2006 was that he wasn't getting enough ice-time. As soon as the Wings increased his ice-time his play improved significantly. You are again making assumptions about Lidstrom learning anything from Yzerman. We don't know that. I've never heard Lidstrom say anything about that. At least we both agree that Lidstrom shouldn't have been given the captaincy 16 years ago. To even suggest that in article was a slap in the face to Yzerman. You are right that the Wings had a choice about retiring Yzerman's number and giving him the job. They didn't have to do those things, but my point is their reputation would've taken a big hit if they didn't. The fans would've also been mad. Well at least I would've been mad, but again maybe that's just me. Seeing less deserving players get those things like Francis, Hull, Robitaille, Messier, Stevens, MacInnis, etc. and not Yzerman would've been wrong.

Anyways I'll let it go. Reading other peoples opinion on it did help. Yzermania19 I will also put you on my ignore list even though you are supposedly a fellow Yzerman fan.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Yzer19

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

One last response.

Southernwingsfan, Fedorov is currently not on the team.

So?

You wander where players ever gave Yzerman credit. I pointed out an example. You didn't say anything in the rules about it being "current" or "former" players.

Since you are so ridiculously anal retentive over this though, I'll point out where a current player gives him credit. That same series in 2002 in the Cup video recap, Hasek, THE CURRENT STARTING GOALTENDER OF THE RED WINGS, said Yzeman was an inspiration to the Wings and, now I'm quoting him, "Our leader" (our referring to the Detroit Red Wings) in how he was marvelous being the main focal point getting them past that first round against Vancouver.

Now, if you go on to say, but that was 2002, I want to see a teammate from 2004-05 before he retired give him credit, I will jump through my laptop and smack you silly. I can guaran-damn-tee you that even though the Wings were bounced out of that first round, players would've said he was one of the best players in that series against Edmonton.

Yzermania19, all I'm saying is last year that the wings would've won the cup with Yzerman instead of Calder in the lineup.

How do you know? You have a magic crystal ball or something? And again, what did Calder do to hold back the Wings last playoffs? HE BARELY PLAYED! So your comparison between the two is ridiculous, when Calder shouldn't be considered an emotional/mental leader or one of your main point-producers. You are just reaching for excuses and you can easily insert player ABC or player XYZ for Calder in this ridiculous comparison.

Your making alot of assumptions about Yzerman's health.

And you're making a lot of assumptions, A LOT MORE RIDICULOUS ONES, about stupid story spin-offs and possible conspiracies of people somehow disrespecting the man, when they ARE NOT TRUE.

You are again making assumptions about Lidstrom learning anything from Yzerman. We don't know that. I've never heard Lidstrom say anything about that.

If a player on the Red Wings didn't learn anything from Yzerman, especially in the latter part of his career, that player is an idiot, and I'd sure hope Lidstrom learned "something" from Yzerman, or he'd be a lousy captain now. Your statement here is beyond any sensible logic.

Anyways I'll let it go.

Good.

[Guest Yzer19]

I am going to comment on one more thing and that's it, at least I hope that's it.

How do you guys know that Yzerman wouldn't have helped the team in the playoffs? You said it yourself that Yzerman was the leader and a main point producer, but yet the Wings were better off with Calder in the lineup? Did you also think Calder should've been given the #19 too? Nobody knows for sure, but I'm basing it on the past and from I've seen from Yzerman during his career and in the playoffs.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I am going to comment on one more thing and that's it, at least I hope that's it.

How do you guys know that Yzerman wouldn't have helped the team in the playoffs? You said it yourself that Yzerman was the leader and a main point producer, but yet the Wings were better off with Calder in the lineup? Did you also think Calder should've been given the #19 too? Nobody knows for sure, but I'm basing it on the past and from I've seen from Yzerman during his career and in the playoffs.

Good f**king grief!!!!!!! What do you not understand about this?!?!?!?

Yzerman himself said during a live interview in one of the playoff games this season that his body could no longer take the punishment and normal wear/tear, given all that he has gone through. He said himself that he couldn’t help the team anymore on the ice to significantly make a positive difference. That answers your question right there, and any specualtion on your part or other fans for that matter on whether he could've made a big difference.

So, when you think about it, he’s probably saying that he’d be holding the team back if he was still playing. After 2005-06, he was done, finished. He himself made up his mind to wrap us his career as an athlete. Not my decision, not yours, not other fans, not upper management. Nobody forced him out. IT WAS HIS OWN DECISION.

So your comparison DOESN’T MATTER because Yzerman wasn’t going to be out there on the ice to begin with because he is RETIRED! And Calder barely even played for the bazillionth time so why you keep on bringing either of the two up in playoff discussions this past season, or are comparing the two, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. They barely played or didn’t play at all!

And why are you even thinking about if they would give Calder #19 AFTER THE JERSEY HAS BEEN RETIRED PERMANENTLY IN THE ORGANIZATION. Once a jersey is retired, nobody can wear the number again UNLESS THE RETIRED PLAYER APPROVES OF IT. Stop asking irrelevant questions.

You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper to idiocy with excuses and pointless scenarios that make absolutely no sense.

Stop. Now.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I am going to comment on one more thing and that's it, at least I hope that's it.

How do you guys know that Yzerman wouldn't have helped the team in the playoffs? You said it yourself that Yzerman was the leader and a main point producer, but yet the Wings were better off with Calder in the lineup? Did you also think Calder should've been given the #19 too? Nobody knows for sure, but I'm basing it on the past and from I've seen from Yzerman during his career and in the playoffs.

I believe that Stevie wouldn't have helped the team simply for the reason that HE said he wouldn't have been able to help the team.

I think that Steve Yzerman has a better idea of his own capabilities than a fan. I have no choice but to believe him.

Do I miss him? Yep. I keep looking for him on the ice.

Does he miss playing? I am sure he does, but he has new things to keep him occupied.

Would his presence on the ice improve the team? I don't know. People are saying how slow Grigorenko is, but also say that he has good ice vision and can set people up very well. Now, I am not comparing Igor Grigorenko to the Great and Powerful Steve Yzerman, but with his knee problems, he didn't have his old speed, and he had great on ice vision to set up others.

Makes me think, though I am sure that there is someone just itching to reply to a thread that he said he was done with twice now.

[HomeNugget 2]

the Red Wings would have won if they had Ovechkin instead of Calder. we should have let Ovechkin play for us.

[Guest Yzer19]

First of all, Yzerman said an injured, 42 year old Yzerman couldn't help the team, not a healthy 42 year old Yzerman. You guys should also know by now that Yzerman is extremely humble when it comes to his playing abilities. He's always giving the credit for his accomplishments to his teammates and the good teams he plays on. If it was up to Yzerman the #19 banner wouldn't have his name and number on it, it would just Red Wings team from 1983-2006. Another thing, not everything Yzerman says is the truth. Remember during the lockout, Yzerman said there would never be a salary cap. He was wrong about that. Either you guys really think very lowly of Yzerman and are underestimating his abilities or I'm overrating him. I won't mention Calder anymore because I finally understand that you guys think Calder was the better player. What about instead of Maltby or do you guys think all those players were better than Yzerman?

Look at Favre, everyone was saying he should've retired after his terrible season last year, but he didn't. He's playing much better this year. I bet he's glad he didn't retire. Who's to say that wouldn't have happend with Yzerman?

HomeNugget, Ovechkin was not available. The Wings had no chance of getting him.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

First of all, Yzerman said an injured, 42 year old Yzerman couldn't help the team, not a healthy 42 year old Yzerman. You guys should also know by now that Yzerman is extremely humble when it comes to his playing abilities. He's always giving the credit for his accomplishments to his teammates and the good teams he plays on. If it was up to Yzerman the #19 banner wouldn't have his name and number on it, it would just Red Wings team from 1983-2006. Another thing, not everything Yzerman says is the truth. Remember during the lockout, Yzerman said there would never be a salary cap. He was wrong about that. Either you guys really think very lowly of Yzerman and are underestimating his abilities or I'm overrating him. I won't mention Calder anymore because I finally understand that you guys think Calder was the better player. What about instead of Maltby or do you guys think all those players were better than Yzerman?

Look at Favre, everyone was saying he should've retired after his terrible season last year, but he didn't. He's playing much better this year. I bet he's glad he didn't retire. Who's to say that wouldn't have happend with Yzerman?

Good god you are confusing. First everybody disrespects Yzerman, then you say Yzerman isn't truthful and is a liar with some comments? What gives with you?

Nobody thinks lowly of Yzerman, you are just insane with your ridiculous with your idiotic attempts searching for excuses of people disrespecting him. We have told you a bajillion times...................NOBODY DISRESPECTS HIM.

And nobody said Calder was a better player than Yzerman, so you got to stop sniffing the glue.

God you a head full of bricks.

HomeNugget, Ovechkin was not available. The Wings had no chance of getting him.

I think he was being sarcastic...

[Guest Yzer19]

I never said Yzerman was a liar. I just said he's not always right. He's a human being just like the rest of the us. He's allowed to be wrong.

I also didn't say you guys were disrespecting him, it was the article that was disrespecting him. This is a pointless discussion. We'll never agree on anything.

[Curban915 0]

It just seems to me there is lack of respect for Yzerman. I just read another article not to long ago that said Lidstrom should've been captain of the team 16 years ago.

O please lack of respect for Yzerman i must have missed the part when his ## went up months after he hung the skates up. When it some of the others ## 30 years after they where done to get there number hung up there with the greats of Det. You need to bulid a bridge and get over. No where did it say Yezerman was holding anyone back. Just made a point that how do you fill the void of leadership like Yerzerman and Shanny not leaving a few year a part but the same year. And also how the current redwings you know the other guys playing!! Did to step up and fill some fairly large shoes. Also you read a post on this website about Lindstrom should have had the C 16 years ago he should have if he had not played with Yezerman. But this is about as point less as the other threds saying we need a fighter hell maybe Yezerman and Shanny can come back and be our fighters i know you would get happy about that.

[Curban915 0]

I never said Yzerman was a liar. I just said he's not always right. He's a human being just like the rest of the us. He's allowed to be wrong.

I also didn't say you guys were disrespecting him, it was the article that was disrespecting him. This is a pointless discussion. We'll never agree on anything.

I have seen some crazy post on this website but this one takes the cake. As the great Dane Cook would say you really are out of your F**king mind. Dude no one said one bad thing about him in the article hell i think i can even find a positive comment from Chris Plunger on #19. I really hope you keep posting this has been the best part of my day.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

good storie, i liked the other one too because there were two stories on red wings on front page at same time

[Guest Yzer19]

O please lack of respect for Yzerman i must have missed the part when his ## went up months after he hung the skates up. When it some of the others ## 30 years after they where done to get there number hung up there with the greats of Det. You need to bulid a bridge and get over. No where did it say Yezerman was holding anyone back. Just made a point that how do you fill the void of leadership like Yerzerman and Shanny not leaving a few year a part but the same year. And also how the current redwings you know the other guys playing!! Did to step up and fill some fairly large shoes. Also you read a post on this website about Lindstrom should have had the C 16 years ago he should have if he had not played with Yezerman. But this is about as point less as the other threds saying we need a fighter hell maybe Yezerman and Shanny can come back and be our fighters i know you would get happy about that.

I don't think the number retirement was a show of respect. It all depends on the reason for the number retirement and in Yzerman's case, from what I understand, the wings offered it to Yzerman along with the job to get him to retire. Now I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got. I actually think it's better if a player has to wait to get his number retired because then it is usually done for the right reasons. 30 years was a bit long, but that was because of bad ownership before Ilitch. I think the league should make teams wait 5-10 years to retire numbers so that way you don't get teams retire numbers for the wrong reasons like emotions in the Avs case or to get a player to retire in Detroit's case. I doubt Bourque's number would be retired by the Avs if they had to wait 5-10 years, Yzerman's probably would still be retired for the right reasons.

Anyways, if they article wants to discuss the current Red Wings that's fine, but leave Yzerman and Shanny out of it. Don't use them to prop up other players. I wouldn't have a problem with Shanny as a fighter, but definitely not Yzerman. He's not fighter. If anything I'd want him back just so he can get his 700th goal.

[Opie 308]

When Yzerman almost retired in the middle of the 02 cup run, the team already knew he was headed for the rafters.

He was the captain forever, he led the team by his play, he was the face of the org for years. Remember the Cup going up on the side of the building only to be vetoed by the fans and changed to Stevie. And before you say it should have been him from the start, the team had no say in what went up on the mural.

This team didn't offer him the job to get him to retire, they didn't say hey we will retire your number if you retire. He knew as well as the rest of us that the minute he hung up the skates that no one, I repeat, no one would wear 19 in the winged wheel ever again. And to top it off as a sign of respect, they through the 'C'

Anyways, if they article wants to discuss the current Red Wings that's fine, but leave Yzerman and Shanny out of it. Don't use them to prop up other players. I wouldn't have a problem with Shanny as a fighter, but definitely not Yzerman. He's not fighter. If anything I'd want him back just so he can get his 700th goal.

You just don't get it, they were referencing the huge void left by great leaders like Yzerman and Shanny, and how that needed to be filled by new people. Not disrespecting them in the least.

I cannot imagine what talking to you in person is like, it must be the most frustrating thing in the world!

Edited September 26, 2007 by Opie