Excellent Article on Nashville

[brutus 0]

The Predators did recieve the most revenue sharing money last season. So what? that's the rules that every team in the league agreed on.

not to nitpick your argument but that is simply not true. it was a majority, it was certianly NOT every team.

and as far as the crowds in detroit, i dont htink the news media's views are that far off...it is a combination of factors, lack of interesting characters on the team, lack of stable economy in michigan, being on top for so many years, and frankly though i hate to admit it, they play a rather boring style of hockey, not to degrade them because it is a very good team but there is little to get very excited about over their style of play. I will go to a few games this year but honestly, unlike years past i am not kicking myself for missing games...in some way the glow has faded for me. I still love the game still love the team and will wat h every game i can on tv...but...apathy i suppose....

brutus

Oh, I wasn't comparing the situations. I was just comparing the media coverage. Everyone knows the reasons for not selling out in Detroit, but you're getting articles there talking about fan interest and other BS stuff. I was just pointing out that the media doesn't always portray a situation accurately, but they will always write a story that creates controversy and gets people reading.

i think they are portraying it pretty accurately

[Legionnaire11 0]

....People in Detroit arent the only ones saying hockey wont work in Nashville, its the entire NHL, and the majority (99.9%)of the media people around the league that cover this sport, please dont make this into a Detroit hates Nashville thing again, face it, youre not above water yet. The figures that you just posted don't match what I was told earlier. As for not asking for tax money, why did they ask the city for 4 million more dollars, which one way or another would involve taxes ? What the Predators front office is saying and what's really been sold are different, and its not like the Preds office hasnt lied before about numbers, just to get more of that revenue sharing money. Its not a rip on you, but even youve said you cant believe whats in the press.... 19K ticket holders, thats a laugh. But im assuming you read that in a press release eh ? But as you say, can't believe everything you read in the press.

I said places LIKE detroit. i'm not making it detroit v nashville. I never have. You might want to go back and check out which side of the argument likes to turn things into detroit v nashville.

Now, when did they ask the city for $4M? don't accuse me of having bad information when you're bringing numbers into this that have never existed.

they initially asked for an extra $3M in tax breaks, but that number has since gone way down. They have also asked for an additional $7M for renovations, which is not much more from the current budget that is already set which pays millions for arena upkeep every year anyway.

Don't know why you find 19k ticket holders to be far fetched. It's not exact, just a guess, but it's much closer than yours. Just how many do you think there are?

We know that there is almost 10k full season ticket equivilents. This is not a phony number thrown out by the team. In case you've been asleep, there is no sale yet. Craig Leipold is still in charge, so he's certainly not throwing out phony numbers to paint a rosy picture. These numbers come from Our Team Nashville who get them confirmed from the Sports Authority.

We also know that 6k of those are actual full season tickets.

That leaves the remaining 4k FST equivilents to be divided between 21 game half season packages (not very popular) and 13 game 1/4 season packages (very popular).

Even the smallest number possible would be to divide them all by half season packages which is 8k ticket holders. in addition to the 6k full season ticket holders means that we have no less than 14k people in nashville who have some sort of ticket package.

Of course, we know that the remaining 4k is not made up entire of half season packages. my best guess is that there are 3k half season packages. Which adds 1.5k full season tickets.

leaving 2.5k full season tickets to be made up by 1/4 season packages. 2.5k X 4 = 10k.

6k full season ticket holders = 6k season tickets

+

3k half season ticket holders = 1.5k season tickets

+

10k 1/4 season ticket holders = 2.5k season tickets

=

19k ticket holders with 10k season tickets

it's not that difficult.

also consider that we averaged roughly 4k per game in walk ups/individual game sales. Those are people going to probably 3-5 games a year. We'll go for the higher side of that at 5 per year since you think the interest is so low...

41 dates X 4k walkups = 164,000

now we'll divide that by the 5 visits per year from each walkup buyer = an additional 32,800 people who buy tickets to see the Predators.

add that to the 19k we have with ticket packages. You're looking at almost 52,000 people in Nashville who have enough interest in hockey to buy tickets throughout the season.

So, you can easily see how your estimate of 15,000 people interested in hockey is absolutely false.

haven't even hit on the growth of Nashville yet. 1.5M right now and we're averaging 14k per game. What happens when the city hits 2M? 2.5M? it will be sold out every night. New growth in the area, plus the existing youth in the area means that the Predators will have the support down the road and shows how giving up on Nashville after 9 years (8 seasons) is way too premature.

----------------------------------------

okay, now proceed to tell me again how my numbers are all wrong, and i'm dillusional and hockey is just not meant for nashville

[WingsZR2 1]

The Predators did recieve the most revenue sharing money last season. So what? that's the rules that every team in the league agreed on. The Preds met every criteria to receive the money, so they got it.

The Titans get a lot more money from the city, but no one questions that.

My problem with revenue sharing is that the NHL is a business and basically this is an extended form of welfare. I'm not picking on the Preds in particular as there are other teams that are on the same welfare program. The NHL isn't a non profit organization, I firmly believe that if you can't support yourself based on the tools you have to run your business you shouldn't be in business at all. As far as the Titans go, the only team in Tennessee that I support (I gave up on the Lions, was only a fan of #20) they pack 68,000 plus into LP Field 8 times a year and have probably contribute more to the local economy than the Preds have since 1999 so its understandable they get more from the city.

Edited October 11, 2007 by WingsZR2

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Where do we think this organization can go?

Let's say they get to keep more of their tax money and they hit their minimum attendance marks and maybe get a better parking deal or something and the people cough up a few extra mil for the renovations. Let's say all of this happens. Does any of this make the team profitable in a meaningful way? What is their payroll this year? If Leipold was a fool and spent 39 mil and that's what helped him lose 27 mil over two seasons, where does the Preds payroll have to be in this equation for the team to make a real profit? Do they have to remain near the bottom of the league to continue getting the most assistance from the healthy teams in the league? Will they be a franchise players will want to go to? Thank god for the minimum cap or the Preds would probably ice a complete minor league team to try and make any money. How long are guys like Dumont and Arnott locked up for? If those guys bag 40 goals or have monster seasons, will Nashville compete to keep them? Do we see Nashville being able to afford 6-7-8 million dollar stars that will help make them a contender?

Our Team Nashville, the new owners, this entire mess seems aimed at just keeping the team in Nashville at any cost. Is it even believable that this team can or will make a profit? Is it believable that they can contend at the bottom end of the cap? How will they get the lukewarm fan to pony up for tix when there's no stars to come out and see or the team isn't doing well because of a lack of high-priced talent?

All of this just seems like they're trying to keep the life support system plugged in and turned on. Just trying to stay afloat isn't anything to be impressed by if you're on the outside looking in at the idea of this being a profitable franchise.

PS: Jordin Tootoo has mad skillz! Did anybody see him record his first goal of the season last night? It was sweet! He got in on a nice pass from Radulov, had Legace right where he wanted him, then...and this was amazing, he fired the puck right into Legace intentionally!!!!! Why you ask? Because he knew the puck was going to deflect off Legace and hit the Blues dman on the leg and bank into the net. Now, I've seen some pretty good bank shots in a game of pool, but this was mad skillz! This guy is gonna bag 30 goals this year no doubt! Plus, he's averaging 1.33 shots per game so he's almost a lock for 20 goals in his sleep. If he's not on your fantasy team yet, get him now! This guy's offensive abilities are second to none.

I know, I know, I just like picking on him so much.

Edited October 11, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[drwscc 212]

This is exactly why anyone with some sense would realise that selling to Balsillie was in more ways than 1 the BEST alternative.....Too bad Bettman doesn't have any f-ing sense

How many times does this have to be repeated? Bettman did *NOT* block the sale, based on any unbiased accounts of what happened. Balsille couldn't get his way because of the BOG rules, so he took his ball and went home. Bettman works FOR the BOG. He wouldn't risk his job by going against the BOG's wishes.

Balsille stepped on too many toes in the BOG, so it will be a LONG time before he owns a team. You piss of an super-exclusive club that has to approve you for membership, you're pretty much doomed.

[Legionnaire11 0]

well... they're probably going to make a profit this season. Very small, but a profit. If they make the playoffs, then it's guaranteed.

Payroll right now is just over $34M I think.

Arnott is locked in through 2011

Mason through 2010

Hamhuis through 2010

Zidlicky through 2010

The new owners say that they will aim for the midpoint of the salary cap/floor when the attendance comes around. That probably doesn't allow for the top level elite stars, but with a good GM like Poile, he can put something together with second level stars.

The team is obviously competitive this season and looking like a tough playoff team. And this is while we're missing Sullivan and Weber, our top forward and defenseman. Last night was just one of those where you get off to a terrible start and it's over from there.

Now, it seems like this will be the last season for Legwand and Dumont in nashville, but that will allow us to lock up Suter and Weber. It's going to be tight like that for a few years probably unless Boots is feeling generous and opens up his wallet.

But again. all of this is just the immediate future. Their goal IS to keep the team here at any cost because they see the future coming. They know that the fanbase is growing and will continue to grow. They know that if given enough of a chance, that Nashville will make all of the current issues seem like a long ago bad dream. Everyone outside of nashville is only interested in the quick fix. "Did you make a dollar today? NO? well then better move them".

You don't deal with problems by running away from them. You don't grow a league by saturating existing markets. The NHL must stick with all of it's existing markets and work to make them all rock solid, it's the only way for the league to grow.

[Opie 308]

Just like MLB isn't blocking a sale of a team to Mark Cuban, right?!?!?!?!

[Legionnaire11 0]

How many times does this have to be repeated? Bettman did *NOT* block the sale, based on any unbiased accounts of what happened. Balsille couldn't get his way because of the BOG rules, so he took his ball and went home. Bettman works FOR the BOG. He wouldn't risk his job by going against the BOG's wishes.

Balsille stepped on too many toes in the BOG, so it will be a LONG time before he owns a team. You piss of an super-exclusive club that has to approve you for membership, you're pretty much doomed.

not to mention that Balsillie never actually put any money up. I have a feeling that if he had put the $10M down, the BoG would have suddenly been a lot more tolerant of his actions.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

not to mention that Balsillie never actually put any money up. I have a feeling that if he had put the $10M down, the BoG would have suddenly been a lot more tolerant of his actions.

Well, they're definitely putting up a strong fight there in Nashville. Things have to go pretty smooth though.

As for growing the market, Nashville isn't making or breaking the NHL as far as growth. Lots of teams have ended up moving. You can't just give this franchise carte blanche to struggle forever. It has to turn around pretty darn quick. Obviously you're looking to this season to show some profitability and a step in the right direction. Not making the playoffs I think would squash that pretty quick. Of course that lease means that even if they stink on the ice but hit their attendance mark, we have to discuss this for at least 3 years more, right? All of which will be moot if they make some money.

Nashville chances:

I think I missed the boat big time on Chicago this year, they look pretty freaking bad so far. Havlat out hurts big time but Toews and Kane look like they're going to stick so who knows.

St.Louis looks a little improved.

Columbus I predicted to finish ahead of Nashville and with Hitch behind the net they likely won't take a single night off so I like their chances of creeping up the standings.

Nashville, for your sake I hope i'm wrong but I had them finishing pretty bad. Not so bad in our division, but not nearly good enough to get into the playoffs.

The lock teams IMO

Detroit

Minnesota

Colorado

San Jose

Dallas

That leaves 3 spots for

Anaheim

Nashville

Edmonton

Vancouver

Calgary

Columbus

It's gonna be a close call in Smashville me thinks

Edited October 11, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[lfd250 1]

Legionnaire11, I love the passion for your team, on this board and your home board, but here you're losing a battle. We have enough time fighting with each other and laughing at sirdrake. It's not that we want Nashville to go, this is a red wing board. You wana talk wings that's fine, you wana talk how nashville is going to kick our ass, your wrong, but that's fine too. But as you can see we are having our own attenance problems and our first sell out of the year will probably be at our second home rink of Phoenix. Good luck with your sale and we look foward to kicking your butts this year, and may be next year.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Legionnaire11, I love the passion for your team, on this board and your home board, but here you're losing a battle. We have enough time fighting with each other and laughing at sirdrake. It's not that we want Nashville to go, this is a red wing board. You wana talk wings that's fine, you wana talk how nashville is going to kick our ass, your wrong, but that's fine too. But as you can see we are having our own attenance problems and our first sell out of the year will probably be at our second home rink of Phoenix. Good luck with your sale and we look foward to kicking your butts this year, and may be next year.

oh sorry, i'm kinda new here so I didn't know. I'll try to stick with Wings topics from now on

Nashville chances:

I think I missed the boat big time on Chicago this year, they look pretty freaking bad so far. Havlat out hurts big time but Toews and Kane look like they're going to stick so who knows.

St.Louis looks a little improved.

Columbus I predicted to finish ahead of Nashville and with Hitch behind the net they likely won't take a single night off so I like their chances of creeping up the standings.

Nashville, for your sake I hope i'm wrong but I had them finishing pretty bad. Not so bad in our division, but not nearly good enough to get into the playoffs.

The lock teams IMO

Detroit

Minnesota

Colorado

San Jose

Dallas

That leaves 3 spots for

Anaheim

Nashville

Edmonton

Vancouver

Calgary

Columbus

It's gonna be a close call in Smashville me thinks

I picked the locks to be

Detroit

Anaheim

San Jose

Vancouver

Colorado

and the definitely nots as

Columbus

Chicago

Edmonton

Phoenix

So the remaining 3 spots would be fought for by

Nashville

St. Louis

Dallas

Minnesota

Los Angeles

Calgary

I think Nashville is the strongest of the bunch. LA and St. Louis have questions in goal which probably knocks them out of contention in the long run. Once again, I think Nashville makes it by being in a division with 3 weak (though improved) teams. Of course, last season we all thought those 3 would be better too.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

oh sorry, i'm kinda new here so I didn't know. I'll try to stick with Wings topics from now on

I picked the locks to be

Detroit

Anaheim

San Jose

Vancouver

Colorado

and the definitely nots as

Columbus

Chicago

Edmonton

Phoenix

So the remaining 3 spots would be fought for by

Nashville

St. Louis

Dallas

Minnesota

Los Angeles

Calgary

I think Nashville is the strongest of the bunch. LA and St. Louis have questions in goal which probably knocks them out of contention in the long run. Once again, I think Nashville makes it by being in a division with 3 weak (though improved) teams. Of course, last season we all thought those 3 would be better too.

I think Minnesota is stronger than Nashville based on their strict adherence to their system. Backstrom's sporting like a .970 save percentage, sick. Of course Minnesota's division should be much stronger than the Central. Although with 2 shutouts in 2 starts, i'm liking Pascal Leclair and Hitch's blue collar lineup right now.

[Legionnaire11 0]

yeah, Leclaire seems to have it together this season. I don't think Columbus us all of the horses in line yet, but give them another year or two and Hitch will have them built into one hardass team.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Most of the people in Nashville in the 80's had never seen a hockey game.... Unless you want to count that ECHL team they used to carry, the South Stars , Knights and whatever else they were called.

That's exactly the point!! Not a single soul in Nashville, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Columbus, Dallas, Raleigh, Denver, Phoenix, or San Jose care what "old time hockey" looked like or how "watered down" the league might be because they didn't have NHL hockey. Those are some huge markets (most of them anyway) that the league either totally ignored or botched the management of. So when we in Detroit or Toronto or Montreal whine that the league is watered down, nobody cares. We're still fans, and except in rare cases, we're going to be fans whether or not the fourth-liners on those expansion teams would have been able to play in yesterday's NHL.

And for that matter, when it comes to the "watered down" argument, I would argue that expanding the league has greatly improved the quality of play in the area where it matters most - the playoffs. When the sixth-worst team in the league makes the playoffs year after year, that makes for some crappy hockey at what's supposed to be the most exciting time of the year.

Legionnaire11, I love the passion for your team, on this board and your home board, but here you're losing a battle. We have enough time fighting with each other and laughing at sirdrake. It's not that we want Nashville to go, this is a red wing board. You wana talk wings that's fine, you wana talk how nashville is going to kick our ass, your wrong, but that's fine too. But as you can see we are having our own attenance problems and our first sell out of the year will probably be at our second home rink of Phoenix. Good luck with your sale and we look foward to kicking your butts this year, and may be next year.

The GD forum is for "the Detroit Red Wings, the NHL, or hockey in general". As the Nashville Predators are a hockey team, in the NHL no less, it's a perfectly valid topic. Besides, Legionnaire didn't even start the topic. A Wings fan did. And Legionnaire is sort of one of our resident Predators representatives, so why shouldn't he pipe up when his team is discussed?

[Donaldjr2448 43]

actually the Arena team just folded a couple of hours ago.

as for the article, I don't have to refute anything in it. This guy is the last one to join the party, he hasn't said anything new and has only rehashed all the same BS that has already been disproved.

I guess he missed all the news about a deal being done within the next week? You know, because the same government people that he was talking about... they actually want to get this deal done.

If you want to read the factual business of the preds and this sale. Check out Richard Lawson of the Nashville Post. It's the business paper in town. He's pretty much debunked all of the myths that the Tennessean has spread by just looking at the actual documents involved. Something the Tennessean has to this point, obviously failed to do. they never include references to the documents, The Post does. Pretty simple to see which source is more credible.

and with all the recent articles on attendance in detroit, you folks oughta know all about how everything in print is 100% factual right?

Guys, I live down here with legion, and he is right, the Tennessean is a bunch of CRAP!!! Seriously. They produce the biggest lies and they twist the stories around so much just to sell the papers. Read a different part of the paper and you'll see how they twist stories.

Now Legion, as for attendance, the Joe is actually selling and filling 86% of its capacity, which is roughly 16500+, I do believe that the Sommet Center does not hold 16000+, is that correct? Basically The Joe is not selling the tickets they use to sell prior to the games, i really believe the NHL strike has a lot to do with the lack of selling out games and the recent sucess of the Tigers, Lions and Pistons!!! Yeah thats right I said the Lions, 3-2 record is like a Super Bowl Trip for us Lions fans!!!!!!

oh sorry, i'm kinda new here so I didn't know. I'll try to stick with Wings topics from now on

I picked the locks to be

Detroit

Anaheim

San Jose

Vancouver

Colorado

and the definitely nots as

Columbus

Chicago

Edmonton

Phoenix

So the remaining 3 spots would be fought for by

Nashville

St. Louis

Dallas

Minnesota

Los Angeles

Calgary

I think Nashville is the strongest of the bunch. LA and St. Louis have questions in goal which probably knocks them out of contention in the long run. Once again, I think Nashville makes it by being in a division with 3 weak (though improved) teams. Of course, last season we all thought those 3 would be better too.

I would put Nashville third on that list, and put Calgary followed by Minnesota, and then I think Nashville and STL would tie for third, I really believe that STL will make the playoffs this year!!!! as for Nashville being the strongest, I would say yes, however if they keep taking stupid penalties and giving teams 10+ Power plays a game, its going to be tough to win!!!

I said places LIKE detroit. i'm not making it detroit v nashville. I never have. You might want to go back and check out which side of the argument likes to turn things into detroit v nashville.

Now, when did they ask the city for $4M? don't accuse me of having bad information when you're bringing numbers into this that have never existed.

they initially asked for an extra $3M in tax breaks, but that number has since gone way down. They have also asked for an additional $7M for renovations, which is not much more from the current budget that is already set which pays millions for arena upkeep every year anyway.

Don't know why you find 19k ticket holders to be far fetched. It's not exact, just a guess, but it's much closer than yours. Just how many do you think there are?

We know that there is almost 10k full season ticket equivilents. This is not a phony number thrown out by the team. In case you've been asleep, there is no sale yet. Craig Leipold is still in charge, so he's certainly not throwing out phony numbers to paint a rosy picture. These numbers come from Our Team Nashville who get them confirmed from the Sports Authority.

We also know that 6k of those are actual full season tickets.

That leaves the remaining 4k FST equivilents to be divided between 21 game half season packages (not very popular) and 13 game 1/4 season packages (very popular).

Even the smallest number possible would be to divide them all by half season packages which is 8k ticket holders. in addition to the 6k full season ticket holders means that we have no less than 14k people in nashville who have some sort of ticket package.

Of course, we know that the remaining 4k is not made up entire of half season packages. my best guess is that there are 3k half season packages. Which adds 1.5k full season tickets.

leaving 2.5k full season tickets to be made up by 1/4 season packages. 2.5k X 4 = 10k.

6k full season ticket holders = 6k season tickets

+

3k half season ticket holders = 1.5k season tickets

+

10k 1/4 season ticket holders = 2.5k season tickets

=

19k ticket holders with 10k season tickets

it's not that difficult.

also consider that we averaged roughly 4k per game in walk ups/individual game sales. Those are people going to probably 3-5 games a year. We'll go for the higher side of that at 5 per year since you think the interest is so low...

41 dates X 4k walkups = 164,000

now we'll divide that by the 5 visits per year from each walkup buyer = an additional 32,800 people who buy tickets to see the Predators.

add that to the 19k we have with ticket packages. You're looking at almost 52,000 people in Nashville who have enough interest in hockey to buy tickets throughout the season.

So, you can easily see how your estimate of 15,000 people interested in hockey is absolutely false.

haven't even hit on the growth of Nashville yet. 1.5M right now and we're averaging 14k per game. What happens when the city hits 2M? 2.5M? it will be sold out every night. New growth in the area, plus the existing youth in the area means that the Predators will have the support down the road and shows how giving up on Nashville after 9 years (8 seasons) is way too premature.

----------------------------------------

okay, now proceed to tell me again how my numbers are all wrong, and i'm dillusional and hockey is just not meant for nashville

I think Legion will agree, the radio stations down here do a GREAT job of putting the NHL on the map, espically 1045 the Zone!!! Great morning show and they do a great job with talking about the games and I think do a great job of explaining the game and creating a fanbase!!

[2probert4 8]

I said places LIKE detroit. i'm not making it detroit v nashville. I never have. You might want to go back and check out which side of the argument likes to turn things into detroit v nashville.

Now, when did they ask the city for $4M? don't accuse me of having bad information when you're bringing numbers into this that have never existed.

they initially asked for an extra $3M in tax breaks, but that number has since gone way down. They have also asked for an additional $7M for renovations, which is not much more from the current budget that is already set which pays millions for arena upkeep every year anyway.

Don't know why you find 19k ticket holders to be far fetched. It's not exact, just a guess, but it's much closer than yours. Just how many do you think there are?

We know that there is almost 10k full season ticket equivilents. This is not a phony number thrown out by the team. In case you've been asleep, there is no sale yet. Craig Leipold is still in charge, so he's certainly not throwing out phony numbers to paint a rosy picture. These numbers come from Our Team Nashville who get them confirmed from the Sports Authority.

We also know that 6k of those are actual full season tickets.

That leaves the remaining 4k FST equivilents to be divided between 21 game half season packages (not very popular) and 13 game 1/4 season packages (very popular).

Even the smallest number possible would be to divide them all by half season packages which is 8k ticket holders. in addition to the 6k full season ticket holders means that we have no less than 14k people in nashville who have some sort of ticket package.

Of course, we know that the remaining 4k is not made up entire of half season packages. my best guess is that there are 3k half season packages. Which adds 1.5k full season tickets.

leaving 2.5k full season tickets to be made up by 1/4 season packages. 2.5k X 4 = 10k.

6k full season ticket holders = 6k season tickets

+

3k half season ticket holders = 1.5k season tickets

+

10k 1/4 season ticket holders = 2.5k season tickets

=

19k ticket holders with 10k season tickets

it's not that difficult.

also consider that we averaged roughly 4k per game in walk ups/individual game sales. Those are people going to probably 3-5 games a year. We'll go for the higher side of that at 5 per year since you think the interest is so low...

41 dates X 4k walkups = 164,000

now we'll divide that by the 5 visits per year from each walkup buyer = an additional 32,800 people who buy tickets to see the Predators.

add that to the 19k we have with ticket packages. You're looking at almost 52,000 people in Nashville who have enough interest in hockey to buy tickets throughout the season.

So, you can easily see how your estimate of 15,000 people interested in hockey is absolutely false.

haven't even hit on the growth of Nashville yet. 1.5M right now and we're averaging 14k per game. What happens when the city hits 2M? 2.5M? it will be sold out every night. New growth in the area, plus the existing youth in the area means that the Predators will have the support down the road and shows how giving up on Nashville after 9 years (8 seasons) is way too premature.

----------------------------------------

okay, now proceed to tell me again how my numbers are all wrong, and i'm dillusional and hockey is just not meant for nashville

You preach all these numbers but they barely got their 14000? I think youre counting the people who buy the 3 or 6 game packs as season ticket holders..... You act as if you work in the front office or something,do you even know what the Nashville Sports Authority group is, and what its all about ? I mean I think they would know whats going on, and as you say, you cant believe the media. Sometimes I wonder if youre just bored and like to argue......But im glad that you took your RED WINGS SUCK out of your sig on the Preds page.

Guys, I live down here with legion, and he is right, the Tennessean is a bunch of CRAP!!! Seriously. They produce the biggest lies and they twist the stories around so much just to sell the papers. Read a different part of the paper and you'll see how they twist stories.

Now Legion, as for attendance, the Joe is actually selling and filling 86% of its capacity, which is roughly 16500+, I do believe that the Sommet Center does not hold 16000+, is that correct? Basically The Joe is not selling the tickets they use to sell prior to the games, i really believe the NHL strike has a lot to do with the lack of selling out games and the recent sucess of the Tigers, Lions and Pistons!!! Yeah thats right I said the Lions, 3-2 record is like a Super Bowl Trip for us Lions fans!!!!!!

I would put Nashville third on that list, and put Calgary followed by Minnesota, and then I think Nashville and STL would tie for third, I really believe that STL will make the playoffs this year!!!! as for Nashville being the strongest, I would say yes, however if they keep taking stupid penalties and giving teams 10+ Power plays a game, its going to be tough to win!!!

I think Legion will agree, the radio stations down here do a GREAT job of putting the NHL on the map, espically 1045 the Zone!!! Great morning show and they do a great job with talking about the games and I think do a great job of explaining the game and creating a fanbase!!

Sonnet Center holds over 17000 for hockey. Most of the original fanbase are people who relocated to Nashville from other places, and as for 104.5, last time I was in, The Titans signed a free agent, and that made more news than the Predators being in the run for the playoffs.... The guys on the show said that it was football country, not hockey country . Red Wings at 86% are 86% of over 19000, which is still more than most teams, including the Pretenders.

That's exactly the point!! Not a single soul in Nashville, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Columbus, Dallas, Raleigh, Denver, Phoenix, or San Jose care what "old time hockey" looked like or how "watered down" the league might be because they didn't have NHL hockey. Those are some huge markets (most of them anyway) that the league either totally ignored or botched the management of. So when we in Detroit or Toronto or Montreal whine that the league is watered down, nobody cares. We're still fans, and except in rare cases, we're going to be fans whether or not the fourth-liners on those expansion teams would have been able to play in yesterday's NHL.

And for that matter, when it comes to the "watered down" argument, I would argue that expanding the league has greatly improved the quality of play in the area where it matters most - the playoffs. When the sixth-worst team in the league makes the playoffs year after year, that makes for some crappy hockey at what's supposed to be the most exciting time of the year.

The GD forum is for "the Detroit Red Wings, the NHL, or hockey in general". As the Nashville Predators are a hockey team, in the NHL no less, it's a perfectly valid topic. Besides, Legionnaire didn't even start the topic. A Wings fan did. And Legionnaire is sort of one of our resident Predators representatives, so why shouldn't he pipe up when his team is discussed?

But most of his points are what he reads in the Nashville City Paper and Tennessean, and the Pretenders site.

Edited October 12, 2007 by 2probert4

[betterREDthandead 58]

But most of his points are what he reads in the Nashville City Paper and Tennessean, and the Pretenders site.

OK, great. I don't read those, and neither do most of us. So if Legionnaire's reading those sources and filtering through the crap to point out the important stuff to us, we should thank him for it instead of telling him to go away. I can either go out of my way to read the Nashville sources, or I can come to LGW which I do all the time anyway and read the posts. I think I know what I'd rather do, and it makes this site that much better IMO.

[clutchngrab 12]

You guys can talk numbers all you want and talk about the viability of this franchise in that market, blah, blah, blah.

The simple fact of the matter is that the NHL still does not offer an exciting enough product - even compared to what they used to.

Sure it is nice to see more skating, but there is still no scoring and not enough fighting.

As a long-time hockey fan, I don't necessarily need to see fighting, but Bettman made a wrong turn (of many) when he decided that fighting was one of the impediments to legitimizing hockey in the mainstream. Now, given the increasing appetite for violence in sports, he seems to have misread. Imagine if hockey could "guarantee" a dozen goals a night and a half-dozen fights. Every arena would be packed.

[2probert4 8]

OK, great. I don't read those, and neither do most of us. So if Legionnaire's reading those sources and filtering through the crap to point out the important stuff to us, we should thank him for it instead of telling him to go away. I can either go out of my way to read the Nashville sources, or I can come to LGW which I do all the time anyway and read the posts. I think I know what I'd rather do, and it makes this site that much better IMO.

He's not telling you anything that you couldn't find in the paper, which he has said on numerous occasions, along with a couple of others, is a puppet of the team, and you have to question how valid that is. The Predators management has been caught lying about attendance and loss of income info in the past using their puppet. He posts these debates on the Predators board, and gets props for arguing with the Red Wings fans. Thats not a personal bash on the guy, its just what goes down. This is a dead issue, time will tell if they survive or not......be it in Nashville or elsewhere.

Edited October 12, 2007 by 2probert4

[Hank 0]

And on the heels of this article comes the announced attendance of 12,155.

Attendance after 3 home games:

Game 1: Opening Night, Thursday Night, vs. Colorado - 16,363

Game 2: Saturday Night, vs. Dalls - 13,079

Game 3: Wednesday vs Phoenix - 12,155

I'ts only 3 games but I really don't see this team coming close to averaging 14,000 a night. Which is funny because I read lots and lots of propaganda from Preds fans that said they had 13,500 seasons tickets sold.

It's funny how both sides are saying the other one is lying.

A report comes out saying the area cares nothing for hockey to which Preds fans scream "That's a lie! Nashville is a great hockey market and we support it!". And then we read attendance figures like this.

Preds are done and it can't come soon enough. Please sell this team to Ballsillie and put it in a city that gives two craps about hockey.

[Legionnaire11 0]

probert, I haven't been arguing anything on here, just answering people's questions. You're the one who has just come up in this thread trying to put me in a negative light.

and great, you used to live here.. USED TO. so that means that you know so much more about what's going on here than me right? you're an idiot man.

and where do I post these debates on the preds boards? the only one i've taken there is the Tootoo fight.

--------------------------

as for the season ticket holders. well there are no more 3 or 6 game packs. But you used to live here, so you should know that right?

and yes, 13 game packs and 21 game packs are season ticket holders. Can you not do math? I think I laid it out for you pretty simply.

There are 41 home games each season.

1 season ticket equals 41 games.

2 of the 21 game packs equals 42 games. Therefore, 2 of the 21 game packs equals 1 season ticket.

3 of the 13 game packs equals 39 games. Therefore, 3 of the 13 game packs equals 1 season ticket.

all 3 packages (41, 21, 13) have playoff priority, they all get the season ticket holder perks.

--------------------

104.5 is the flagship of the Predators. the program director George Plaster actually organized most of the rally this summer and is a member of Our Team. Sorry that you happened to hear some Titans coverage on there, it's a 24 hour sports station, so they're not going to go hockey 24 hours a day. They talk preds for a few hours every day though, sorry you missed out on it. The simple fact is that football is more popular here, what the hell do you expect?

So, you can continue being bitter about Nashville and the Predators for whatever reason, but you're a little out of line on this one.

And on the heels of this article comes the announced attendance of 12,155.

Attendance after 3 home games:

Game 1: Opening Night, Thursday Night, vs. Colorado - 16,363

Game 2: Saturday Night, vs. Dalls - 13,079

Game 3: Wednesday vs Phoenix - 12,155

I'ts only 3 games but I really don't see this team coming close to averaging 14,000 a night. Which is funny because I read lots and lots of propaganda from Preds fans that said they had 13,500 seasons tickets sold.

It's funny how both sides are saying the other one is lying.

A report comes out saying the area cares nothing for hockey to which Preds fans scream "That's a lie! Nashville is a great hockey market and we support it!". And then we read attendance figures like this.

Preds are done and it can't come soon enough. Please sell this team to Ballsillie and put it in a city that gives two craps about hockey.

go back and look at every season through our history. October is always the worst attendance. Neither of game 2 or 3 was in the mini plans, so the only tickets sold were to full season ticket holders and walk up buyers.

Come back at the end of the season and look at the attendance. Our second half attendance is always miles ahead of first half attendance. it's called AVERAGE attendance. not first 3 games attendance. There are still 38 left, a little too soon for you to be making a judgement isn't it?

Edited October 12, 2007 by Legionnaire11

[Hank 0]

Come back at the end of the season and look at the attendance. Our second half attendance is always miles ahead of first half attendance. it's called AVERAGE attendance. not first 3 games attendance. There are still 38 left, a little too soon for you to be making a judgement isn't it?

But this is also the first time the fans have faced losing their team. And how do they respond? With indifference.

And judging by how they've played the last 2 games, against two of the weaker teams in the West, I see this team struggling. If the Preds can barely draw flies while being one of the best teams in the league, how are the locals going to respond when they're team isn't as good and will more than likely move out of town?

I'm making a guestimation but if all the other 29 teams were facing extinction unless they hit the 14,000 mark I'd say, outside of maybe Atlanta and Florida, all the other teams would fill the house to save the team.

The declining attendance after 3 games (and yes, I'm aware it's after only 3) tells me that the fans couldn't care less about the Preds.

I see this team averaging between 12-13,000 throughout the year.

And in all honesty I hope that's the case. Nashville has been a disaster for the NHL. They take more revenue sharing cash than any other team, they've brought no interest to the NHL and they've been a giant eye and ear sore on the league with the fiasco of selling the club.

This team seriously can't contract or move fast enough. If the NHL despises small market teams that have good fan followings imagine how they feel about small markets where the fans couldn't care less.

Edited October 12, 2007 by Hank

[Legionnaire11 0]

what about 4-0 win over colorado and 4-1 win over dallas?

jumping the gun a little aren't you?

[Hank 0]

what about 4-0 win over colorado and 4-1 win over dallas?

jumping the gun a little aren't you?

All it does is show me that they're inconsistent after 4 games. They looked great against the Avs but the crap they took against Phoenix last night was horrendous. Phoenix could easily be the worst team in the NHL this year.

The fact remains that the Preds have always had very poor attendance and I don't see that changing. Like I mentioned, everyone in the Nashville area knows about the teams struggles and the fact that if they don't average 14,000 fans they're as good as gone. And how has the city responded? By only buying 12,000 tickets 4 games into the season.

Edmonton faced the same kind of thing a few years back. When Don Cherry personally challenged the people of Edmonton to put up or shut up, the Oilers sold out every game the rest of the season and haven't looked back.

That was only 1 man challenging the city.

Nashville has had countless articles and TV exposure to their plight and even held a ticket selling rally. And what did it get them??? NOTHING.

I feel bad for the 6 diehard fans the city has. But it's time to let it go. The Preds had one of the best teams in the league last year and they sold like crap. They've lost a lot of key players and are in a 'reload' phase right now, while facing extinction. I don't see that helping ticket sales. It's time to let the dream die. If the Preds don't leave this year, it'll be next year or the year after that. But it will come eventually and probably in the next 5 years.

For lack of a better analogy it's like begging a wife to stick around even though it's apparent to everyone else on the planet she doesn't want you anymore and is banging a guy from Kansas City, Vegas and Hamilton. The only thing keeping her around is legal documents that are soon to be annulled giving her the freedom she desperately wants.

[Legionnaire11 0]

that's your opinion. I think it's wrong