AGE Old Question

[Louisville 112]

Scott Burnside and Damien Cox both have a interesting debate going on at ESPN on struggling older players (like Modano and Weight) and if older players are really the best answer for a team's success. I particularly liked some of their theories on Forsberg.

Damien: Fallen in love with the word "incredible," have we? Your points are sort of well made. Detroit, it seems to be, handled the case of an aging veteran best when it came to Steve Yzerman. He didn't have to carry the club any longer, but could still fill a valuable role. Now they've got to see how they can handle the situation with Chelios and 37-year-old Nicklas Lidstrom, as well. I'm assuming, by the way, this is all a roundabout way of getting to the issue of Peter Forsberg, who's 34 and probably coming back to the league soon?

Scott: But the issue of struggling veterans does indeed play into the whole Forsberg frenzy. He'll be playing for Sweden in a tournament in Finland next weekend and the stands will no doubt be filled with GMs who envision bringing the aging center on board and thus ensuring a Stanley Cup parade in their backyard. Oh wait, the Predators already tried that. Flyers, too. Didn't exactly work out, did it? Not that it will stop every other GM with a frequent-flyer card from trying to make it happen.

Damien: So, you're saying if you're Sens GM Bryan Murray or Canucks GM Dave Nonis or whoever, you're not interested?

Scott: I didn't say that. But if you think having Forsberg solves all of your problems, then you're misguided. I think Forsberg might actually be the difference on a team like Ottawa. Vancouver? Not so much.

Damien: OK, here's my theory on Forsberg. First of all, the guy's incredibly beat up, and that's no secret. He's a wonderful talent and, in his day, maybe the best player on the planet. But interestingly, he was most effective perhaps in the old hook-and-hold days, even though he spent a fair bit of time being bashed around. He was terrific at using his body to shield the puck and buy time, and particularly adept at operating down low in the offensive zone. You didn't see him thrive because of his breakaway speed. These days -- and games like the Minnesota-Pittsburgh tilt on Tuesday night are being played at a supersonic pace -- I wonder if the style of the game doesn't mesh as well with Forsberg's skill set. In other words, maybe he can't be a difference maker.

Scott: See, that's where I think Forsberg becomes one of those "missing pieces" you were talking about earlier. If Ottawa grabs Gary Roberts at the deadline instead of Pittsburgh, maybe the Sens don't get beat up by Anaheim as badly and that Cup finals series takes a different turn. If Forsberg lands in Ottawa, where he doesn't have to shoulder the load but just contribute, work the power play, chip in here and there, the Sens are a Stanley Cup team. If he ends up in Vancouver, where Nonis apparently didn't get the memo about having to score goals to win, then I think it's a perfect scenario for disappointment, as far as the Canucks are concerned.

Damien: The beauty here, of course, is that Forsberg comes free. You don't have to trade for him, as Philly and Nashville did, and the longer he waits to come back, the less a team has to mess around with its cap number to fit him in. But this takes us back to where we started. He's 34 years old with a lot of miles on his chassis, but he's still Peter Forsberg. If you're Ottawa, can you reasonably bring him in and slot him behind Jason Spezza and Mike Fisher? What happens to Chris Kelly's minutes? Or do you brush all those guys out of the way and put the world's No. 1 player between Dany Heatley and Daniel Alfredsson and worry about the fallout later?

The question is, do we really need Forsberg? Couldn't hurt, but I want speed and toughness, not a vetran past his prime with glass ankles. Damien has an interesting point on Forsberg post lockout. He's overrated people, and if he's demanding more than three million (which I'm sure he will) he can kiss my ass.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Scott Burnside and Damien Cox both have a interesting debate going on at ESPN on struggling older players (like Modano and Weight) and if older players are really the best answer for a team's success. I particularly liked some of their theories on Forsberg.

The question is, do we really need Forsberg? Couldn't hurt, but I want speed and toughness, not a vetran past his prime with glass ankles. Damien has an interesting point on Forsberg post lockout. He's overrated people, and if he's demanding more than three million (which I'm sure he will) he can kiss my ass.

2006 = 19 goals 56 assists for 75 points in 60 games. 4 goals and 4 assists for 8 points in 6 playoff games

2007 = 13 goals 42 assists for 55 points in 57 games. 2 goals and 2 assists for 4 points in 5 playoff games

And those are his post-lockout numbers. (with the flyers and Predators no less)

His health is a major concern, but he is not overrated.

Edited November 3, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

It couldnt hurt. I dont want Forsberg right now though, I want to continue our 4th line rotation of Downey, Drake, Ellis and Kopecky. Unless Babs were to bench Hudler for him (I would, but Hudlers been playing well so I dont see why).

I have a feeling later in the season, we will pick him up.

[Louisville 112]

2006 = 19 goals 56 assists for 75 points in 60 games. 4 goals and 4 assists for 8 points in 6 playoff games

2007 = 13 goals 42 assists for 55 points in 57 games. 2 goals and 2 assists for 4 points in 5 playoff games

And those are his post-lockout numbers. (with the flyers and Predators no less)

His health is a major concern, but he is not overrated.

If he's injured after a playoff round, or less. Then he's very overrated in my book.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

the only way it could hurt is financially...and kenny wont sign him unless its for a decent amount

[T.Low 1,011]

2006 = 19 goals 56 assists for 75 points in 60 games. 4 goals and 4 assists for 8 points in 6 playoff games

2007 = 13 goals 42 assists for 55 points in 57 games. 2 goals and 2 assists for 4 points in 5 playoff games

And those are his post-lockout numbers. (with the flyers and Predators no less)

His health is a major concern, but he is not overrated.

Agreed. NOT overrated. So often the playoffs are one goal games. When Zetterberg already has two goals, and Holmer got his off the PP. You're fighting for every inch of ice out there. Opportunites to score are at a premium. You can't screw up when those opportunities present themselves. Its during those precious, fleeting moments when Forsburg can go in for the kill , when others don't even recognize the opportunity exists, or cannot capitalize on it, and its gone. And the game is lost. So the series is lost. But no, before anyone really saw the vulnerability, it was exploited by Forsberg and the game was won, 4-3 in the final 5 minutes. Savior? No. Final piece to the puzzle? Could be.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

If he's injured after a playoff round, or less. Then he's very overrated in my book.

how does being injured make him overrated?

the only thing that would be overrated then is his health, which as I said is a major concern.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

how does being injured make him overrated?

the only thing that would be overrated then is his health, which as I said is a major concern.

1 year, 3.5 mil and health is a concern. 1 year, 900k and health is not a concern. That is my asking price, but I would go up to 1.5 mil.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Those ESPN guys are spot on. Forsberg would be a fantastic fit on a team like Ottawa or the Wings where he can play the second or third line. He can roll out there for 11 minutes a night, take some pressure off the first line, cause matchup problems for somebody's second or third defensive pairing, play the second power play unit, etc. etc. Problem is that teams aren't going to pay more than, I dunno, a base salary of maybe $2 million for that. Whereas some desperate team will pay at least twice that and hope they get the Forsberg of 1999 (they won't.) Forsberg has no reason to do anything but follow the money - he's always been kind of his own biggest fan, and this isn't a thing where the aging veteran longs for one last shot at hockey's Holy Grail, he's already engraved on it a couple times.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Forsberg's going to wait till probably a little past the midway mark in the season to come back. Whats going to happen is at that point a team that feels they can make a run will offer him an additional year or two on the contract...which is what he wants and isnt getting right now. Somebody will probably offer him 2 mill for the remainder of the season, and then 4 mill for the following year as well. Makes sense for Peter as he'll have security if he ends up hurt again. The additional year(s) is something he'll be able to force on anyone who wants him. Somebody WILL bite, its a given. I dont believe it'll be the Wings though, it'll be one of the upstarts like St Louis or Minnesota for example if either is still looking good at the break.

[Louisville 112]

how does being injured make him overrated?

the only thing that would be overrated then is his health, which as I said is a major concern.

So you don't think his health and his skill come as a package deal? He can have all the skill in the world but if he's not playing, then yes, thats how injury makes him overrated.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Forsberg isn't good, I just think his health precedes his abilities. Especially at the 4+ million or whatever he will command.

[auxlepli 17]

Those ESPN guys are spot on. Forsberg would be a fantastic fit on a team like Ottawa or the Wings where he can play the second or third line. He can roll out there for 11 minutes a night, take some pressure off the first line, cause matchup problems for somebody's second or third defensive pairing, play the second power play unit, etc. etc. Problem is that teams aren't going to pay more than, I dunno, a base salary of maybe $2 million for that. Whereas some desperate team will pay at least twice that and hope they get the Forsberg of 1999 (they won't.) Forsberg has no reason to do anything but follow the money - he's always been kind of his own biggest fan, and this isn't a thing where the aging veteran longs for one last shot at hockey's Holy Grail, he's already engraved on it a couple times.

IDK Buccigross might be a bigger fan of Forsberg than even himself.

He's tempting for those teams for the reasons you posted, but there's always that specter of how fragile he is.

I wonder how serious Holland is about pursuing him or is he saying that to inflate his price so another team pays more.

As far as age - it seems to me in salary cap hockey that more and more teams are relying on younger players.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

So you don't think his health and his skill come as a package deal? He can have all the skill in the world but if he's not playing, then yes, thats how injury makes him overrated.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Forsberg isn't good, I just think his health precedes his abilities. Especially at the 4+ million or whatever he will command.

I guess it's semantics.

When someone calls a player overrated, I take that to mean the hype is greater than the player's actual abilities. With Forsberg that is not the case.

For me, injuries don't have anything to do with being called overrated. Like when Zetterberg got injured last year, that didn't suddenly make him overrated as a player in my book.

But yes, as I've said, his health is the greatest factor in him coming back.