Samuelsson does not fit in

[2probert4 8]

i really dont think we would have to give up more then samuelsson for ryder , im from montreal and trust me the media and the fans are fed up of him and everyone knows hes leaving at seasons end , hes not doing nothing which doesnt help his value regardless of his few 30 goal seasons he's had .

trading sammy for ryder would save montreal a bit of cash for this season and would ensure the habs they got at least a player in return who will be under contract for next season at a cheaper cost and would ensure us of saving 1.2 million for next season if we let ryder go

How much do you think we would have to give up ?? cause i dont think we would have to add in a prospect of a top pick , if "anything" maybe a 7th round pick , ryder has no value right now ....... and lets face it were not gonna get that BIG name goal scorer were all hoping for so we might as well get ryder , and there i say maybe think about breaking up zetterberg/datsyuk for a few games and see if we can have 2 solid lines ?? or just put ryder next to filppula and hudler

i think kovalev has another year left at 4.5 per ........ no thanks , the guy gets all his points on the powerplay and only plays when he feels like it

Montreal would not want Sammy, they would want one of our young players or a prospect. People need to quit thinking like the Leafs media and figure out that teams aren't going to accept a lesser player (Sammy) for a better one (Ryder) just because the fans and media are fed up with a certain player.

[eva unit zero 271]

Ryder has been HORRENDOUS this season. He's not that good defensively, and more than half of his points have been power play assists. He has only scored 4 points at even strength; Sammy has 5 even strength goals and 11 even strength assists for 16 even strength points.

There is ZERO comparison between the two this season. One has been a solid second liner and played well at both ends of the ice. The other is the object of lust for many Wings fans because of what he did in previous seasons.

Yes, Sammy plays slightly more than Ryder. That should actually work in Sammy's favor as he plays a second line role on the league's best offense, while Ryder has been outperformed by guys playing a similar number of minutes in Latendresse, Kostitsyn, and Dandenault. He's not in his team's top six, and hasn't deserved to be. Ryder's performance this season wouldn't warrant a spot on the top two lines in Detroit either. The Wings actually have eight forwards-their top two lines plus Draper and Cleary-who have outscored Ryder this season, and two more-Franzen and Maltby-who have scored at a similar points per game rate. So that would mean Ryder would be competing for time on the third and fourth lines. Not worth it.

[TimeBinder 28]

Of course Samuelsson doesn't fit in. He ******* blows, and I've been telling people this from day 1. His goal against St. Louis the other night was his first in over a month, and even despite that, he didn't do dick in that game. If he's not scoring, he's the most useless player on the Wings.

I have a laundry list of grievances with Samuelsson. For a second line player, he hasn't scored hardly at all this season. He has a whopping 4 goals this season, which is pathetic, cheap contract or not. Hudler and Filppula both make less money than he does, and get less ice, yet they both have more goals. So for anybody that tries to defend him because *he only makes 1.2 million a season* your excuse fails, because there are guys on the team right now that make less money than he does, and still have more points. Even Kopecky is closing in on his goal total.

...and that's just the not scoring part. His lack of physical play, espeically for his size, is so infuriating. It really shows the direction this team is when it comes to physical players. He pulls up whenever he goes into the corner to get the puck (I have not once seen him finish a check), and his constant ***** behavior of punching guys in the face with his gloves on, yet running away right after that and not answering the bell, is getting old in my book.

Also: his defensive play people talk about on here is mainly a myth. Just because he skates back and can keep up doesn't make him a good defensive player. Maybe it's just me, but a guy who can take the puck away, or take an opposing player out of the play physically qualifies as a good defensive player. Not a guy who just skates back and pretends to take him out of the play by standing next to somebody.

Samuelsson is basically like last years Jason Williams, only for some odd reason, people defend Samuelsson's play, which they did not do for Williams. I don't give a two s***s if the guy is swedish (which automatically means he get's a spot on this team) or only makes 1.2 million a season, he sucks and is not producing. If he was scoring, I'd lay off him, but he's not, and is playing terrible.

As for the proposed Mike Ryder trade: I wouldn't mind it, since it basically means Samuelsson would be gone off this team finally. Ryder is a more capable goal scorer than Samuelsson, as back-to-back 30 goal seasons can speak for that (on a non-playoff team with no true #1 center no less). My problem with Ryder is he is extremely one dimensional, and since he's not scoring this season, it's hard to find out what he could do (ala what his role would be) if he doesn't score.

Ryder could revitalize himself here, which would be great. If not, than the Wings simpily just let him walk. He's a UFA at seasons end, which makes the trade good in the Wings favor. They'd be clearing off Samuelsson and the extra year he he has on his contract, and they'd be getting a former 30 goal scorer in return. If Ryder doesn't work out, they let him leave, and fill that line with either a prospect or a decent UFA during next summer.

I think the trade would work well, and it makes sense for the Wings. Whether it actually happens or not remains to be seen. Samuelsson is both Holland and Babcock's golden boy (especially Babcock, who has not even considered benching him yet this season, and gives him so much ice time it's ridiculous) so it looks like he'll be around for a while unfortunately.

I not really sure where you are going with this, stop sugar coating it and tell me what you are trying to say?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Montreal would not want Sammy, they would want one of our young players or a prospect. People need to quit thinking like the Leafs media and figure out that teams aren't going to accept a lesser player (Sammy) for a better one (Ryder) just because the fans and media are fed up with a certain player.

And you'd think it would be this easy to figure out.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Samuelsson was quite comfortably the worst player on the ice last night. He played a truly horrible game. Turnovers galore and lots of soft shots. It doesn't matter to me if he chips in with a good game every now and then, IMO he is worthless.

Worthless? Don't be so dramatic.

If he's so worthless, who do we get for him then? What's a realistic trade scenario, because you, I or anybody else can say that a player is worthless after a loss when we are emotionally not happy and not thinking straight.

Edited January 1, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[2probert4 8]

Ryder has been HORRENDOUS this season. He's not that good defensively, and more than half of his points have been power play assists. He has only scored 4 points at even strength; Sammy has 5 even strength goals and 11 even strength assists for 16 even strength points.

There is ZERO comparison between the two this season. One has been a solid second liner and played well at both ends of the ice. The other is the object of lust for many Wings fans because of what he did in previous seasons.

Yes, Sammy plays slightly more than Ryder. That should actually work in Sammy's favor as he plays a second line role on the league's best offense, while Ryder has been outperformed by guys playing a similar number of minutes in Latendresse, Kostitsyn, and Dandenault. He's not in his team's top six, and hasn't deserved to be. Ryder's performance this season wouldn't warrant a spot on the top two lines in Detroit either. The Wings actually have eight forwards-their top two lines plus Draper and Cleary-who have outscored Ryder this season, and two more-Franzen and Maltby-who have scored at a similar points per game rate. So that would mean Ryder would be competing for time on the third and fourth lines. Not worth it.

Ev, Ryder is still a much better player than Sammy, so lets not pretend that he's not. There are factors up there such as Ryder may want out, he may be pouting , but his talent is still far better than Sammy. But I still don't see the Wings adding Ryder for many reasons.

[eva unit zero 271]

Ev, Ryder is still a much better player than Sammy, so lets not pretend that he's not. There are factors up there such as Ryder may want out, he may be pouting , but his talent is still far better than Sammy. But I still don't see the Wings adding Ryder for many reasons.

Ryder has been terrible this season. Samuelsson has outplayed him big time. yes, part of that is the difference in team; but Sammy's numbers are so far ahead of Ryder that it's more than just the difference in team. Sammy has been the better offensive player this season, and has ALWAYS been the better defensive player.

Why are people so high about Ryder, yet unwilling to think about Samsonov? For reference, Ryder's season in Montreal this year is worse than Samsonov's last year, and that's not even considering that Samsonov was coming off a severe injury. People slam Samsonov about his work ethic; why doesn't Ryder get the same treatment? Oh, that's right..Ryder is a Canadian, and Samsonov is a Russian. that means Ryder CAN'T have a bad work ethic, and Samsonov MUST have a bad work ethic.

[2probert4 8]

Ryder has been terrible this season. Samuelsson has outplayed him big time. yes, part of that is the difference in team; but Sammy's numbers are so far ahead of Ryder that it's more than just the difference in team. Sammy has been the better offensive player this season, and has ALWAYS been the better defensive player.

Why are people so high about Ryder, yet unwilling to think about Samsonov? For reference, Ryder's season in Montreal this year is worse than Samsonov's last year, and that's not even considering that Samsonov was coming off a severe injury. People slam Samsonov about his work ethic; why doesn't Ryder get the same treatment? Oh, that's right..Ryder is a Canadian, and Samsonov is a Russian. that means Ryder CAN'T have a bad work ethic, and Samsonov MUST have a bad work ethic.

Sammys Defensive Ethic is the OLE' method. Thornton 19 Canada says hello EV

[irishtemper14+25 11]

I agree! Sammy just doesn't fit on any line. Any line he plays on he brings his linemates down. That being said, I feel Drake has been worse than Sammy.

so trade sammy + drake for ryder, then sign mccarty?

hahaha everyone on the boards is gonna tear me apart for writing that, but i got a better idea. trade sammy and drake for picks then claim samsonov and sign mccarty

now thats how u manage a team

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Worthless? Don't be so dramatic.

If he's so worthless, who do we get for him then? What's a realistic trade scenario, because you, I or anybody else can say that a player is worthless after a loss when we are emotionally not happy and not thinking straight.

We wouldn't get anything for him because he's worthless...

I am thinking straight when I say that he's worthless. For a guy who plays consistent minutes on the PP and averages about 17 minutes a night, his impact isn’t up to what it should be. I’m sick of seeing him out there taking soft, unscreened shots from the blue line as well as constant giveaways.

[HenryMalredo 2]

For what he's paid, Samuelsson does his job. He scores some goals and plays a solid 2-way game. Anyone expecting him to be a perfect, superstar player needs to put the pipe down.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

For what he's paid, Samuelsson does his job. He scores some goals and plays a solid 2-way game. Anyone expecting him to be a perfect, superstar player needs to put the pipe down.

Does anyone expect that?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I think your all forgetting how good Sammy was in the San Jose series and parts of the Anaheim series. Just think of that and all the bad he does will be erased from your mind.

[Opie 308]

We wouldn't get anything for him because he's worthless...

I am thinking straight when I say that he's worthless. For a guy who plays consistent minutes on the PP and averages about 17 minutes a night, his impact isn’t up to what it should be. I’m sick of seeing him out there taking soft, unscreened shots from the blue line as well as constant giveaways.

Who then?

Who on this roster should fill his spot?

Who currently on the roster has the ability to play that role, without screwing either the top Offensive line or top defensive line up?

Who on this team is a proven pp point man that isn't already on the first pp?

Who do you want to take his place, give me a name. You are willing to ***** and moan about a player but not offer any reasonable option besides Sammy.

And yes your expectations of him are unreasonable, you are looking for a legit top 6 forward to take his spot, if the team had one, or acquiring one were that easy don't you think Holland, Babs, or whomever would have done it by now?

HE IS FILLING A VOID!!!!!

Why can't you people understand this, the team has 3, yes count them 3, bona fide top 6 proven scorers (all on line 1), 2 guys that hopefully will develop into it, a guy in Cleary who is doing a great job as a checking line/energy guy so moving him to that spot messes up a line that is doing really great and the team hasn't had a checking line this good since Mac.

If you want to complain that the team needs top 6 scoring I will listen and even agree with you, but saying Sammy sucks and doesn't fit, can't pass, is worthless, are all BS.

And where were you to post when he had his 6 game point streak in tact?

I didn't see these threads lighting up with Sammy can't play when he had 3g 5a 8 pts in 6 games, 7 if you include the shutout loss.

Shutout in bold because that means that no one else scored either!

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Here are my 2 cents on Sammy.

I want him off the point on the PP.

He can't backhand pass to save his life.

He shoots wristshots from too far out sometimes.

But...

He is a good sniper in close.

He pisses the other team off.

He can pass when he has time and space, he can actually make great passes.

He can play on any line.

[eva unit zero 271]

Let's compare Sammy to other division leaders' 6th place scoring forwards.:

M.Samuelsson, DET: 36 GP, 6-16-22, +9

J.Williams, CAR; 36 GP, 9-21-30, +2

C.Kelly, OTW: 39 GP, 7-11-18, +4

D.Zubrus, NJ: 38 GP, 6-12-18, +2

R.Kesler, VAN: 38 GP, 9-9-18, +5

N.Hagman, DAL: 40 GP, 14-5-19, E

The average stat line for the other five guys listed in Sammy's 36 games would be:

191 GP, 45-58-103, +13

36 GP, 8-11-19, +2

Sammy is better than average offensively for a #6 scoring forward on a division leader. He's also the best defensive player listed. Those of you who say Sammy is not a top six forward are going based more on the fact he's not a big name or the fact that you are used to the Wings having a top-six made entirely of first-line forwards.

Mikael Samuelsson is a top six forward, and has been for a couple seasons. Sammy is a top six forward when compared to other guys in similar positions on top teams. He's also #113 in points per game among forwards, even including guys who have only played one or two games and scored points. Top six, for reference, would be 180 forwards. He's not perfect, but he's a good player.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

play cheli on pp, he has experience there and knows how to use the backboards. hed be a lot better than sammy out there, hell maybe hed finally get a hatrick

[redwings56 1]

play cheli on pp, he has experience there and knows how to use the backboards. hed be a lot better than sammy out there, hell maybe hed finally get a hatrick

True Cheli does have more expirience, BUT they use Sammy because he has the right handed howetzer, although not accurate at all. I would like to see Kronwall and Lebda. Lebda can create a lot more than Sammy, much better vision.

Did anyone understand how poor Sammy's givaway was against the Blues in his own zone. He did a little stick handling and then passed a weak backhand through the slot which was picked off and Hasek had to make a save. Now since Hank is back I want to see Franzen in Sammy's spot a lot more. Although that probably won't happen, but i will hope for it has Babs chews his 18th piece of gum tonight.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Three words:

Samuelsson For Torres.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Let's compare Sammy to other division leaders' 6th place scoring forwards.:

M.Samuelsson, DET: 36 GP, 6-16-22, +9

J.Williams, CAR; 36 GP, 9-21-30, +2

C.Kelly, OTW: 39 GP, 7-11-18, +4

D.Zubrus, NJ: 38 GP, 6-12-18, +2

R.Kesler, VAN: 38 GP, 9-9-18, +5

N.Hagman, DAL: 40 GP, 14-5-19, E

The average stat line for the other five guys listed in Sammy's 36 games would be:

191 GP, 45-58-103, +13

36 GP, 8-11-19, +2

Sammy is better than average offensively for a #6 scoring forward on a division leader. He's also the best defensive player listed. Those of you who say Sammy is not a top six forward are going based more on the fact he's not a big name or the fact that you are used to the Wings having a top-six made entirely of first-line forwards.

Mikael Samuelsson is a top six forward, and has been for a couple seasons. Sammy is a top six forward when compared to other guys in similar positions on top teams. He's also #113 in points per game among forwards, even including guys who have only played one or two games and scored points. Top six, for reference, would be 180 forwards. He's not perfect, but he's a good player.

Huh? Stats do not tell how good a player is defensively. The only one that remotely indicates how good they are would be SH TOI. Ryan Kesler has emerged as one of the best defensive centermen in the game, same with Chris Kelly, Niklas Hagman is a top penalty killer for Dallas. I have no problem believing that Sammy has the stats of a top 6 forward, but better then most of the guys you mentioned defensively, not a chance.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Here are my 2 cents on Sammy.

I want him off the point on the PP.

He can't backhand pass to save his life.

He shoots wristshots from too far out sometimes.

But...

He is a good sniper in close.

He pisses the other team off.

He can pass when he has time and space, he can actually make great passes.

He can play on any line.

Quick and to the point, but enough of a wonderful analysis where you point out his flaws AND some of his strengths.

I don't think he's all that bad on the PP point, but other than that I pretty much spot on agree with your other brief points.

Now I'm not Samuelsson's #1 fanboy or public relations representative. And I apologize for sounding like a condescending little jerk toward members in the Samuelsson threads. He had a bad game last night where his flaws definitely were more on display than his weaknesses, and a few other games this season, but I'm sorry, to say he is completely useless and is a f**k up is so over the top and obnoxious. If he was so useless, he wouldn't be playing with Detroit or in the NHL.

All of us need to get a grip on the extreme Samuelsson talk, the ones who obnoxiously overreact to him without bringing up any of his strengths, AND the ones such as myself who feel the need to come to his defense when he is getting reamed ridiculously.

[TimeBinder 28]

Watching him tonight so far infuriates me :god he is awful. Elite my ass.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Watching him tonight so far infuriates me :god he is awful. Elite my ass.

Was that pass (YES SAMUELSSON DOES PASS) he made OVER a Dallas player's stick for a slick one-timer attempt by Kronwall (which was inches close to being a goal) infuriating or awful?

EDIT: Recognize and mention the good with the bad is all some of us are asking. I don't think that is too hard of a request.

Edited January 3, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Was that pass (YES SAMUELSSON DOES PASS) he made OVER a Dallas player's stick for a slick one-timer attempt by Kronwall (which was inches close to being a goal) infuriating or awful?

EDIT: Recognize and mention the good with the bad is all some of us are asking. I don't think that is too hard of a request.

I'm yet to see you mention anything about the bad.

[redwings56 1]

Sammuelsson is playing much better, although I am still pissed when they have a 3 on 2 with Hank and Hudler, and Sammy floats a backhander into the goalies glove while leading the rush.

His mistakes are not as obvious as they used to be it seems, now that he is playing with Hank.