Clement: "Leafs won't get what they want for Sundin"

[toby91_ca 620]

thought i would throw this in there just because it has some reputable men discussing what they would ask for in return for sundin. some of them seem a little on the cheap side while others seem a little on the expensive but nevertheless its interesting to see what some "experts" think.

here is the link: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/292233

they asked john muckler and this was his response for those who dont want to read:

personally i dont like the idea of giving up this brendan smith kid because look what happened with matthias at the world juniors. it definitely pained me to watch. and why the hell would the leafs want lilja? another big slow defenseman? theyve already got kubina, gill, wizniewski and mccabe for that.

and for the record, ive cheered for the leafs for 20 years and watch every game, kaberle IS a steal at 4.25 million but so far this season hal gill has been basically their best defenseman which may surprise some but its true.

Here's Esposito's thoughts:

PHIL ESPOSITO

Coach and GM of the Rangers for three years in the mid-1980s, during which he earned the nickname "Trader Phil." He also was GM of the Lightning.

I would trade Sundin to Pittsburgh for ...

Jordan Staal, C. 19 years old. In 41 games, has 3 goals, 7 assists.

Angelo Esposito, C. Was Pittsburgh's first-round pick in 2007, 20th overall.

A 2008 first-round pick.

Is he absolutely nuts? There is no way Pittsburgh trades Staal to get Sundin on rental. Staal is having a terrible year (sophmore slump), but the guy is only 19 and has lots of trade value. On top of that, he's thinking they'd throw in 2 first rounders. Maybe I'm under estimating what a team might give, but I'm shaking my head at this one.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

just saw this on that site .......

If they were JFJ ...

GLENN HEALY

During a 15-year career, played for the Los Angeles Kings, New York Islanders, New York Rangers and Maple Leafs. It has widely been speculated he is a candidate to become an NHL general manager.

I would trade Sundin to Ottawa for ...

Andrej Meszaros, D. 22 years old. In 41 games, has 7 goals, 12 assists and has a plus-minus rating of plus-8.

Patrick Eaves, RW. 23 years old. In 20 games, has 4 goals, 4 assists.

Antoine Vermette, LW. 25 years old. In 40 games, has eight goals, 15 assists.

Two first- or second-round draft picks in 2008.

hahahahahahah man that is so laughable , 3 young roster players and 2 1st round picks for a rental hahahahhahahhhahahaahhaahahhahaahah , vermette AND mezaros hahaha

thats why healy will be a tsn-er for life, what a stupid idiotic trade , ottawa's gm must of died of laughter when he saw that

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Here's Esposito's thoughts:

Is he absolutely nuts? There is no way Pittsburgh trades Staal to get Sundin on rental. Staal is having a terrible year (sophmore slump), but the guy is only 19 and has lots of trade value. On top of that, he's thinking they'd throw in 2 first rounders. Maybe I'm under estimating what a team might give, but I'm shaking my head at this one.

ya these guys have lost their minds hahahaa , there way off on what sundin will fetch lmao staal AND esposito AND 1st rd picks

eaves .... vermette AND meszaros AND 2 1st round picks hahahaa

i must say this article is good for a laugh , nice entertainment

[BeeRYCE 2]

As his career is hitting it's peak, it's time to make that decision. A guy without a cup, and a guy deserving a cup, will NOT win it with the team he is currently with. He deserves to win a cup, and I'd be happy to get that for him, with his help.

[stormboy 47]

By comparison, Dan Cleary makes 0.675mil and has outscored the 7 million-dollar-duo of Tucker/Blake by 3 goals.

heh. dan cleary: be our hope.

[imisssergei 0]

ya these guys have lost their minds hahahaa , there way off on what sundin will fetch lmao staal AND esposito AND 1st rd picks

eaves .... vermette AND meszaros AND 2 1st round picks hahahaa

i must say this article is good for a laugh , nice entertainment

What you are missing in this equation is Sundin's value in a teams quest for a Cup. I guarntee that Kenny would (if he had teh assets) make a strong run at Sundin. Sundin will command a huge amount. The Pittsburgh deal sounds the most viable to me. Staal is a solid defensive hockey player, he is a bigger, slower Draper. Espo has a ton of potential, and the Pens first round pick will be middle of the pack.

Just look at what the Preds gave up for a unhealthy, underachieving Forsberg. Look what Atlanta gave up for a slow, aging Tkachuk. Sundin is much more of an impact player than either of those guys, not to mention he is healthy. If Sundin is moved, it will draw a kings ransom.

[Flip-check 6]

We get Sundin @ the deadline for allowing JFJ 10 minutes of counseling with Scotty Bowman

What those guys said.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

What you are missing in this equation is Sundin's value in a teams quest for a Cup. I guarntee that Kenny would (if he had teh assets) make a strong run at Sundin. Sundin will command a huge amount. The Pittsburgh deal sounds the most viable to me. Staal is a solid defensive hockey player, he is a bigger, slower Draper. Espo has a ton of potential, and the Pens first round pick will be middle of the pack.

Just look at what the Preds gave up for a unhealthy, underachieving Forsberg. Look what Atlanta gave up for a slow, aging Tkachuk. Sundin is much more of an impact player than either of those guys, not to mention he is healthy. If Sundin is moved, it will draw a kings ransom.

the penguins deal sounds viable to you ?? hahahahahahahahh man thats funny , your absolutely insain if you think the penguins whos a young up and coming team will trade 2 young guys who can be stars , one already had a great season and should bounce back after struggling this season and a 1st round pick for a 38 yr old who will leave in 2-3 months... AND there not stupid enough to believe conklin will lead them to the cup this year although hes been playing well

Im sorry but that trade is absolutely ridiculous and would never happen , with those pieces they could trade for a younger player who's just as good who could be with the penguins for years to come not for 2 months , give me a break , your way off on this one

atlanta gave up what they gave because they were desperate to make the playoffs and guaranteed it to the fans ....nashville was havin trouble drawing in fans as well so they went for the big splash

they talked about this on tsn tonight and even darren dreger agreed with me and said teams wont give up as much as they did last season ... we will see what happens , but no offense but i think your crazy if you think the pens would of actually gave up 2 guys with potential to be a star and a 15-20 1st round pick for a 38 yr old rental ...and again lets not forget about their goaltending problems which adds to more reasoning as to why this idiotic proposterous trade idea you think is viable would never in gods name happen

Edited January 10, 2008 by wingswillwincup

[12Newf 0]

i agree, i laughed my ass off at almost every one of these trades. to me the ottawa one seems the most ludicrous trade of them all because i think sundin would rather die than wear a sens jersey. while i do think sundin should be rented for the good of the organization, i cannot imagine this happening. IF it did happen, he would go to a contender because sundin is so loyal to the leafs that he would only leave if he thought the situation was so desperate in toronto (which it is after seeing the 5-0 drubbing they just suffered) that by leaving he would be helping the team.

as much as i know sundin would massively improve the wings' chances at winning a cup, i dont think i ever want to see him in anything other than a leafs jersey. as much as i would love to see sundin hoisting the cup because he deserves it so badly...i dont think i would like to see him in anything but a leafs jersey.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Personally, I think Sundin will go to Anaheim for a package that includes Edmonton's 1st rounder.

[akustyk 84]

Personally, I think Sundin will go to Anaheim for a package that includes Edmonton's 1st rounder.

won't happen. as of recent, Burke doesn't sign guy who never wore Winged Wheel

now seriously: Pittsburgh seem logic. Sundin's trade value is high and any team

fetching him will have a huge increase in cup chances. Sundin's value is his

leadership and experience which is exactly what young teams need and what

they have in return for JFJ: young talent and high draft picks.

Pens are legit candidate. they should make it to the playoffs and will definitely

be looking for veteran experience. Sundin is perfect for their needs. and they

also have assets to move in such trade to give Fergusson what he's looking

for in this trade.

other teams. if Blues continue playing good they may try to scoop Sundin.

other than them: maybe Dives, maybe Ducks (depending on their cap room).

Sabres? Philly? dunno...

[Opie 308]

Personally, I think Sundin will go to Anaheim for a package that includes Edmonton's 1st rounder.

That is a scary thought, they now have a ton of picks to trade, and they really seem reluctant to do anything with Bobby Ryan.

Bobby Ryan, two picks from Edmonton for Sundin is a viable option. Maybe even through in their #1 instead of a second EDM pick.

Sundin and Teemu together with that D spells trouble!!!

Luckily for us wings fans, JFJ won't take that offer, he would want Perry or Getzlaf with it. For some reason it seems like the leafs are thinking Sudnin has years left on his contract to have such a high asking price.

Especially when you consider now all the GM's know they want to shop him this early, and they are trying to do the Ray Bourque for him. I really don't think they will get what they want for him.

Analogy time:

It is like the Santana deal (Or every year with Manny Ramirez) The Twins (Sox in Manny's case) don't really want to get rid of the player, the overall talent there is just too important to the team. So the asking price is severely high, but at the same time they can say to the player, "Hey man, we are doing all that we can, we can't just give away our Captain, best player, and only legit MVP candidate from our team over the last 15 years."

I think this is a PR situation where they look like they are trying to do right by him.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Opie

[toby91_ca 620]

Staal is a solid defensive hockey player, he is a bigger, slower Draper.

Staal wasn't drafted 2nd overall to be a bigger, slower version of Draper, his potential goes well beyond that.

He scored more goals and points as an 18 year than Draper has been able to accomplish in any 1 year in his 14-15 year career.

[FinRedWing 172]

Personally, I think Sundin will go to Anaheim for a package that includes Edmonton's 1st rounder.

Good to see him going to a team which has the most hunger for the Cup.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I think Selanne will wind up coming back to Anaheim. If that happens, we're pretty much forced to get Sundin, because their 2nd line would be far stronger than our 2nd line. Of course, bringing in Sundin is a hit or miss thing, since he isn't going to re-sign in the offseason anyways. But who's going to argue that we have a better chance of winning the Cup without Sundin than with him?

[imisssergei 0]

the penguins deal sounds viable to you ?? hahahahahahahahh man thats funny , your absolutely insain if you think the penguins whos a young up and coming team will trade 2 young guys who can be stars , one already had a great season and should bounce back after struggling this season and a 1st round pick for a 38 yr old who will leave in 2-3 months... AND there not stupid enough to believe conklin will lead them to the cup this year although hes been playing well

Im sorry but that trade is absolutely ridiculous and would never happen , with those pieces they could trade for a younger player who's just as good who could be with the penguins for years to come not for 2 months , give me a break , your way off on this one

atlanta gave up what they gave because they were desperate to make the playoffs and guaranteed it to the fans ....nashville was havin trouble drawing in fans as well so they went for the big splash

they talked about this on tsn tonight and even darren dreger agreed with me and said teams wont give up as much as they did last season ... we will see what happens , but no offense but i think your crazy if you think the pens would of actually gave up 2 guys with potential to be a star and a 15-20 1st round pick for a 38 yr old rental ...and again lets not forget about their goaltending problems which adds to more reasoning as to why this idiotic proposterous trade idea you think is viable would never in gods name happen

Staal had a career year. Even in Jr's he never scored 30 goals. Last year was a fluke for Staal, he had one good year in Jr's and suddenly he has a world of potential? He will be a solid two-way center, who has a role very similar to that of Draper.

To Toby91_ca, Draper had a PPG average in '03-'04 at .60 ppg to Staals .52 pp last season. This season Draper has a .40 ppg, Staal has a .24 ppg. But I will give you he does have more of a scoring touch than Draper. My point was however, that he isn't a scorer.

You have to look at Pittsburgh's current roster. Current centers are Crosby, Malkin, Christensen, Kennedy, Talbot, Staal, Smith and Stone. Esposito has proven in Jr's that he can't play wing. If you don't believe me, look at his stats. The last half of last season, Esposito was moved to wing by his coach, Patrick Roy, to help prepare him for the NHL. He flopped, his production dropped drastically. Leaving him with 19 fewer points than the previous season, while playing 3 more games. The Pens are too deep at center to fit Esposito in. There is no doubt that Staal is more capable than playing third line center, and killing penalties. Conklin isn't a guy that will lead the Pens to the Cup. But Fleury is definitely capable when he is on his game.

As for Atlanta, did you just start watching hockey this season Sparky? The Thrashers won their division last season. Getting Tkachuk wasn't a move to make the playoffs, it was a move to win the Cup.

If you watched TSN, than you know that nearly everyone else believes Sundin, if he gets moved, will certainly command much more than you are thinking, something much closer to the Pens deal suggested.

[A.T.Hun 0]

Personally, I think Sundin will go to Anaheim for a package that includes Edmonton's 1st rounder.

Wouldn't there be massive salary cap implications for this though? I know that when Niedermayer came back, they had to dump some people already to handle next year's cap. I'm no capologist but I think they'd have to do some serious juggling to make this deal work. If you get Sundin but remove what depth you have and make next year a living Hell, what's the point? Of course all of this means that Burke might just do it.

Edited January 10, 2008 by A.T.Hun

[imisssergei 0]

Wouldn't there be massive salary cap implications for this though? I know that when Niedermayer came back, they had to dump some people already to handle next year's cap. I'm no capologist but I think they'd have to do some serious juggling to make this deal work. If you get Sundin but remove what depth you have and make next year a living Hell, what's the point? Of course all of this means that Burke might just do it.

They had to move someone who was under contract next season to meet tagging rule requirements. But, they are pretty close to the cap as is, about $2 left. Enough for Selanna or Sundin, but not enough for both without moving someone who has a big contract. **COUGH dougweight COUGH**

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Personally, I think Sundin will go to Anaheim for a package that includes Edmonton's 1st rounder.

i think your just dreaming of that happening cause your a leafs fan lol .... brian burke is not a f'n idiot and he wont trade off a potential top 5 1st round pick when he knows that chance will never come again unless there at the bottom of the nhl .......the ducks are already a contender, selanne might come back , he wont trade a top 5 -10 overall pick for a rental......same if it was us , holland wouldnt trade off a top 5-10 overall pick for a rental....... not happening

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Staal had a career year. Even in Jr's he never scored 30 goals. Last year was a fluke for Staal, he had one good year in Jr's and suddenly he has a world of potential? He will be a solid two-way center, who has a role very similar to that of Draper.

To Toby91_ca, Draper had a PPG average in '03-'04 at .60 ppg to Staals .52 pp last season. This season Draper has a .40 ppg, Staal has a .24 ppg. But I will give you he does have more of a scoring touch than Draper. My point was however, that he isn't a scorer.

You have to look at Pittsburgh's current roster. Current centers are Crosby, Malkin, Christensen, Kennedy, Talbot, Staal, Smith and Stone. Esposito has proven in Jr's that he can't play wing. If you don't believe me, look at his stats. The last half of last season, Esposito was moved to wing by his coach, Patrick Roy, to help prepare him for the NHL. He flopped, his production dropped drastically. Leaving him with 19 fewer points than the previous season, while playing 3 more games. The Pens are too deep at center to fit Esposito in. There is no doubt that Staal is more capable than playing third line center, and killing penalties. Conklin isn't a guy that will lead the Pens to the Cup. But Fleury is definitely capable when he is on his game.

As for Atlanta, did you just start watching hockey this season Sparky? The Thrashers won their division last season. Getting Tkachuk wasn't a move to make the playoffs, it was a move to win the Cup.

If you watched TSN, than you know that nearly everyone else believes Sundin, if he gets moved, will certainly command much more than you are thinking, something much closer to the Pens deal suggested.

lol how do you know last year was a fluke ?? it was his FIRST year ! your telling me in the next 15-20 yrs of his career he wont get another 30+ yr goal season , please man ......... you know how many guys in the juniors are ok players and come here and become great players ?? patrice bergeron was nothing special in the juniors and hes a great guy on an awful team ...... staal will not be a draper type player lmao

Will you pleaseee stop comparing drapers ppg average with staal's , it was his first year in the nhl ! jesus christ man lol

hes having a tough 2nd season , he'll bounce back ..... hes only 19 yrs old

esposito has lots of talent and skill , if they put him with crosby it'll certainly help and it might be magic , dont forget esposito at one point was suppose to be a 1st overall pick , all that talent and skill doesnt dissapear , if they put him with crosby which im sure they will , watch out

marc andre fleury is injured , i dont even know whats going on with him and if he'll be back this season if he will be itll be really late in the season and even with him in nets they wont win the cup this year , hes still young and struggles at times ... no point in trading for sundin , especially giving up 2 guys and a top 15-20 pick when there not ready

sparky ??? lollllllllllllllllll

do you watch hockey ??? that division atlanta won is the worst division in the nhl .... they did not pick up tkachuk for a playoff run lmao ....... they were 7 pts away from not making it in, you make it sound like they were already guaranteed a spot when they got him LMAO ....... they got tkachuk to help them get in the playoffs ......TRUST ME

As for Atlanta, did you just start watching hockey this season Sparky? The Thrashers won their division last season. Getting Tkachuk wasn't a move to make the playoffs, it was a move to win the Cup.

[58Miles2Joe 12]

Personally, I think Sundin will go to Anaheim for a package that includes Edmonton's 1st rounder.

I hear ya, but I just found this on Spector...

BURKE NOT TALKING TO LEAFS ABOUT SUNDIN.

THE GLOBE & MAIL: David Shoalts yesterday reported Anaheim Ducks GM Brian Burke dismissed speculation that he might be interested in acquiring Toronto Maple Leafs captain Mats Sundin. Burke said he's had no talks with Leafs management and noted he already has a number one centre in Ryan Getzlaf.

Spector's Note: Burke might've been interested a year ago before Getzlaf blossomed into a star, particularly during last spring's Stanley Cup run. He's not interested now.

Since it's Burke, a grain of salt is called for...perhaps the whole shaker.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

I hear ya, but I just found this on Spector...

BURKE NOT TALKING TO LEAFS ABOUT SUNDIN.

THE GLOBE & MAIL: David Shoalts yesterday reported Anaheim Ducks GM Brian Burke dismissed speculation that he might be interested in acquiring Toronto Maple Leafs captain Mats Sundin. Burke said he's had no talks with Leafs management and noted he already has a number one centre in Ryan Getzlaf.

Spector's Note: Burke might've been interested a year ago before Getzlaf blossomed into a star, particularly during last spring's Stanley Cup run. He's not interested now.

Since it's Burke, a grain of salt is called for...perhaps the whole shaker.

told you guys lol ... burkes not a fool ....... and especially if selanne comes back hes got no need for sundin and WONT trade a top 5 overall potential pick for a rental , hes not stupid

[toby91_ca 620]

Staal had a career year. Even in Jr's he never scored 30 goals. Last year was a fluke for Staal, he had one good year in Jr's and suddenly he has a world of potential? He will be a solid two-way center, who has a role very similar to that of Draper.

To Toby91_ca, Draper had a PPG average in '03-'04 at .60 ppg to Staals .52 pp last season. This season Draper has a .40 ppg, Staal has a .24 ppg. But I will give you he does have more of a scoring touch than Draper. My point was however, that he isn't a scorer.

Consider this: Staal is mid-way through his 2nd year in the NHL. When Draper was Staal's age, he was about 4 years away from full-time NHL duty. That fact alone makes comparing the two pointless.

When you are drafting 2nd overall, you are not looking for a guy that is going to fit in nicely on your 3rd or 4th line (i.e. similar role to that of Draper). He may be there now as a 19 year old, but I guarantee you the organization has much higher hopes for him than that.

For interests sake (I know this is not gospel by any stretch of the imagination), Staal's scouting report list his potential as 1st line forward, Draper is listed as checking line center.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Consider this: Staal is mid-way through his 2nd year in the NHL. When Draper was Staal's age, he was about 4 years away from full-time NHL duty. That fact alone makes comparing the two pointless.

When you are drafting 2nd overall, you are not looking for a guy that is going to fit in nicely on your 3rd or 4th line (i.e. similar role to that of Draper). He may be there now as a 19 year old, but I guarantee you the organization has much higher hopes for him than that.

For interests sake (I know this is not gospel by any stretch of the imagination), Staal's scouting report list his potential as 1st line forward, Draper is listed as checking line center.

nice to see someones got some common sense

[2probert4 8]

Hudler doesn't fit in there anywhere? I dunno... he's kind of sold to me.

When will people get it through their heads that teams wont take our lesser prospects for their top stars? Kindl is regarded moreso than Quincey. Leafs would want picks also.